GDT: Lightning vs Capitals. 7pm. Verizon Center. 4.13.2013

[RandyHolt]

You really think the primary problem with the defense is that it lacks grit?

What do you think is the primary problem? Something a little deeper than needing better players.

 

[Foy]

While certainly grit can help defense, there have been plenty of solid d-men over the years that have been amazing defenders without being gritty. Not every defenseman has to be Langway or Stevens. There's plenty of Lidstrom to go around. Hell, a prime Calle Johanson would be amazing for this team.

 

[Liberati0n*]

What do you think is the primary problem? Something a little deeper than needing better players.

The biggest specific problem is probably their inability to clear the zone, something nearly everyone here likes to lament. In a more general sense, the biggest problem is decision-making. Look at Carlson: Would being grittier fix the issues with his game? I am all for grit...I would love more than anything to see the team involved in a bench-clearing brawl...but I don't think grit should be prioritized over good decisions and so on. Alzner isn't particularly "gritty," but he's assertive, which is what counts more than anything. Schultz isn't, and that's one of the two biggest problems with his game.

The way I see it, there are two kinds of good "defensive" play. There's transitioning the puck out of your own zone quickly and effectively, driving the play in the opposite direction, and then there's what happens in the defensive zone when the other team has the puck in terms of limiting opportunities/coverage/etc. A guy like Erskine is pretty effective in that second aspect, in my opinion, but struggles in the first. A lot of stylistically similar guys seem to. I guess I'm similar to McPhee in thinking that first aspect should be emphasized and is more important.

 

[msrulo]

Having soft D like Green who can't hit or take hits doesn't help. He can't possess the puck or take it away from an opponent either. The only good things about Green is blocking shots and his offensive skills. Green is a good winger but a terrible, terrible defenseman. Him and Alzner combined were -3 against Tampa. If I was GM, I would trade Green for a first rounder, if not, convert him to wing.

Now another missing piece is a top 2 LD. Erskine is a good LD but fit only for 3LD as a fighter. Shutdown LD like Andrej Sekera or Niklas Hjalmarsson are underrated and can really help this team. http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stat...+3+5+4+6+7+8+13+14+29+30+32+33+34+45+46+63+67

 

[Mothra]

The biggest specific problem is probably their inability to clear the zone, something nearly everyone here likes to lament. In a more general sense, the biggest problem is decision-making. Look at Carlson: Would being grittier fix the issues with his game? I am all for grit...I would love more than anything to see the team involved in a bench-clearing brawl...but I don't think grit should be prioritized over good decisions and so on. Alzner isn't particularly "gritty," but he's assertive, which is what counts more than anything. Schultz isn't, and that's one of the two biggest problems with his game.

The way I see it, there are two kinds of good "defensive" play. There's transitioning the puck out of your own zone quickly and effectively, driving the play in the opposite direction, and then there's what happens in the defensive zone when the other team has the puck in terms of limiting opportunities/coverage/etc. A guy like Erskine is pretty effective in that second aspect, in my opinion, but struggles in the first. A lot of stylistically similar guys seem to. I guess I'm similar to McPhee in thinking that first aspect should be emphasized and is more important.

I believe when assessing a players defensive play, especially a dman....its his play along the boards when the puck is contested that matters most. At least at the NHL level....if a guy cant pivot and is getting beat on the rush a lot.....it doesnt matter, he's not a NHLer. With all the fundamentals being sound it comes down to pushing play to the boards, and either getting the puck, getting it to a teammate, or enabling a teammate to make a play. A good defensive dman will more times than not make one of those plays when he is in the action

 

[Langway]

In many ways what they lack as a group is summed up by their PK deficiencies: too few forwards close gaps in a hurry and too few defensemen vigorously contest pucks in the corners. As a result that unit is pretty awful and overall they're not enough of a territorial group yet. The contours of it are there--and I do wonder if a lack of practice time is part of it--but it's also another case of McPhee needing to adapt his roster to a new coach again. Maybe eventually he'll catch up but it requires not being blinded by loyalty and making tough decisions. Upping D mobility alone is too simplistic.

The necessary bite in their game isn't engrained, it's a selective emotional thing. It's not their identity or anything. The PK's passive nature doesn't help but I don't think personnel fits being more aggressive either. Erskine has the willingness but not so much the fluidity. Oleksy likewise has the heart but not so much the size or wingspan. Carlson is the key and unquestionably the most frustrating of them all because you know the tools are there. Up front Hendricks isn't quick enough or have enough of a wingspan and it's really where a 2/3C of Ribeiro/Perreault kills them. Chimera has the speed but not the brains. Maybe a healthy Laich could have helped but he's not a saviour. For as much as they love their grinders those guys largely aren't getting the job done.

 

[caps4cup]

This is the deepest offense they've ever had. They've never had a 2nd line even close to as good as it is now. And the 3rd line looks the best it has in a while IMO.

 

[brs03]

This is the deepest offense they've ever had. They've never had a 2nd line even close to as good as it is now. And the 3rd line looks the best it has in a while IMO.

Eh, I don't know if I buy that. The second line has produced (though cold now), but they seem like fundamentally they'll always give up as much as they get. Laich - scrub - Semin always seemed stronger than that, among others.

 

[Vladiator16*]

This is the deepest offense they've ever had. They've never had a 2nd line even close to as good as it is now. And the 3rd line looks the best it has in a while IMO.

I would have to disagree... With Feds and Kozlov i feel we were deeper, but maybe its just me.

 

[caps4cup]

Eh, I don't know if I buy that. The second line has produced (though cold now), but they seem like fundamentally they'll always give up as much as they get. Laich - scrub - Semin always seemed stronger than that, among others.

I don't really think so.

Brouwer=Laich
Semin>Erat
Ribeiro>>>>2C

 

[caps4cup]

I would have to disagree... With Feds and Kozlov i feel we were deeper, but maybe its just me.

I think Feds was definitely worse than Ribeiro is now. He was like Erat, in 5 years.

 

[caps4cup]

But of course I said IMO its the deepest so I know some will disagree. I looked it up yesterday though and...

Last 31 games

21-9-1

104 GF (3.35 GF/game)
77 GA (2.48 GA/game)

That has me feeling pretty good. Great GF (Pitt is currently 1st in the league at 3.29 GF/game), solid GA (would be 15th), and a really good goal differential which is indicative of the top teams.

 

[Liberati0n*]

I don't really think so.

Brouwer=Laich
Semin>Erat
Ribeiro>>>>2C

Brouwer is a better offensive player than Laich, but Laich is better at some important things, like board battles, and is smarter. Ribeiro is a good offensive player, but he has some pretty big holes in his game. He's also been a lot better on the PP than at producing with his line at ES. What matters most isn't the parts themselves, but how they fit together, obviously. If Erat fits well with the other two and can help their crap defense, the line could be pretty good (although Brouwer will have to do more finishing than he's probably suited for), but it remains to be seen.

 

[Vladiator16*]

I think Feds was definitely worse than Ribeiro is now. He was like Erat, in 5 years.

You underestimate Feds, essentially he was a coach on the ice, plus Kozlov, but again thats just an opinion.

 

[brs03]

I don't really think so.

Brouwer=Laich
Semin>Erat
Ribeiro>>>>2C

The problem is, Riberio and Brouwer are pretty much always going to be minus players because they are pretty much always going to get outchanced. Erat should help, but how much remains to be seen obviously.

On the other hand, Semin was almost always dominant force out there in terms of outchancing the opposition, and Laich is generally a positive there as well. Riberio isn't significantly better than the 2C's they've tried before: he'll score more, but he'll get scored on more too. He's basically always going to be a ~neutral impact at ES so he's not some huge upgrade over anyone.

(And IIRC Fedorov actually had really good underlying numbers in his time here... but I may be misremembering)

 

[um]

I don't really think so.

Brouwer=Laich
Semin>Erat
Ribeiro>>>>2C

Laich=Brouwer
Semin>>Erat
Flieschmann/Fedorov<Ribeiro

 

[Vladiator16*]

Laich=Brouwer
Semin>>Erat
Flieschmann/Fedorov<Ribeiro

 

[txpd]

I'm in the wait and see category with the defense;.

i lot of times mcphee's intentions are pretty obvious.
a. mcphee thinks erskine is a legit 4d now. ask rh and brouse and they would agree.
b. mcphee and oates and company apparantly think olesky is legit enough and hillen legit enough that both kundratek and orlov are in hershey. i personally thought kundretek looked like a real nhl defenseman and thought orlov was established last season.

hillen and erskine are extended. they arent goin anywhere. schultz is never playing again so far as i can tell and so we can guess he is gone.

this defense is the defense they are going with. next season i would guess at least one of the hershey bound players gets to play regular. orlov or kundratek or schilling or schmidt.

but there aint no 10 year vet top 4 d coming.

 

[caps4cup]

Laich=Brouwer
Semin>>Erat
Flieschmann/Fedorov<Ribeiro

Laich=Brouwer
Semin>Erat
Flash/Feds<Ribeiro



I see the difference between Semin/Erat and Feds/Ribeiro as the same. I'd almost say Erat and Fedorov are more comparable, while Ribeiro and Semin are more comparable, at least in terms of playing style. And then there's Brouwer/Laich, who both don't really score as much as many would like at ES, although Brouwer does score considerably more and is a better forechecker/physical presence. Again, comparables are hard though, and opinions will differ. But at the very least, I can say that I think most of us would agree our offense is good enough to win a Cup, which it wasnt the past 2 years.

 

[brs03]

Laich=Brouwer
Semin>Erat
Flash/Feds<Ribeiro



I see the difference between Semin/Erat and Feds/Ribeiro as the same. I'd almost say Erat and Fedorov are more comparable, while Ribeiro and Semin are more comparable, at least in terms of playing style. And then there's Brouwer/Laich, who both don't really score as much as many would like at ES.

Semin was much, much better than Riberio in terms of outscoring/outchancing the opposition. The production may be similar, but you're ignoring how much worse the second line is now in terms of allowing the other team to get chances and score.

 

[caps4cup]

Semin was much, much better than Riberio in terms of outscoring/outchancing the opposition. The production may be similar, but you're ignoring how much worse the second line is now in terms of allowing the other team to get chances and score.

Yep I just meant in playing style. Hell, Erat reminds me of Fedorov when he skates even.

But I understand what you mean in allowing the other team to out chance them. I didn't really start noticing it really until Laich and Erat were out and they were playing with Volpatti. Hopefully Erat will help that, as they were turning the puck over way too much near the blue lines for my liking. But I think they are still a good second line (best we've had since 2010), and hopefully Erat can help them be more consistent at ES both offensively and defensively.

 

[txpd]

Semin was much, much better than Riberio in terms of outscoring/outchancing the opposition. The production may be similar, but you're ignoring how much worse the second line is now in terms of allowing the other team to get chances and score.

you think morrison was better?

 

[brs03]

I worry that Ribeiro is what he is at this point, in which case spend the money elsewhere... but it would certainly be nice if Erat clicked there and pushed that line in the right direction.

 

[brs03]

you think morrison was better?

No, but Semin was so much better than anyone currently on that line that it didn't matter. Actually, that year he was a better 2-way guy than Ribeiro is this year, but some of that is just how dominant the entire team was.

 

[caps4cup]

No, but Semin was so much better than anyone currently on that line that it didn't matter. Actually, that year he was a better 2-way guy than Ribeiro is this year, but some of that is just how dominant the entire team was.

Semin had 2 years at 90-100 point levels. Besides that he was producing at numbers very similar to Erat, with similar linemates. Obviously Semin>Erat, but I don't think the difference is that big (we'll know more as we see Erat more). Also it's hard to argue a near PPG winger>>>>a near PPG center, considering one has Eric Staal as a linemate and one has Troy Brouwer.

Again, Semin is a better player than both Erat and Ribeiro, but I think you're over exaggerating just how much better he is.