Post-Game Talk: Lightning 4, Penguins 3 - Goodnight Saigon

[Le Magnifique 66]

I Think this window for the penguins is closed. I don't see it

People said the same thing a few years ago after the # of disaster playoffs with Flower sucking
Then we go on to win back to back Cups...
The guys are getting older, but I really don't agree here that the window is closing. This is still a roster IMO that can win it all
Schultz getting hurt is killing us right now, a lot more than some would have thought.
We will get back on track, but I do expect a few changes from now on

 

[Doogle]

Completely agree with @honouroverglory.

If every single player is playing like shit except the ones that are extremely talented, then it's on coaching.

And I'll be the first to state that I understand Sullivan's reluctance to play Sprong. He's completely absent minded away from the puck. However, he can't work through it in WBS, Grant and co are providing nothing, and we're losing regardless. Let him work through it. Then call up Blueger. Prow. Play a different lineup for once. See what our youth can do, and if they outperform the vets we can try to make a couple trades with said vets to free up cap space and get more youth so that we can reload for at least one more run with our core before they get too old.

 

[Kiith Nabaal]

I agree 100% with the spittin chiclets guys from their podcast yesterday. We probably have the worst fan base in sports or at least one of the worst. The pirates are probably the only team in this city that deserves the **** talking it gets.

People callings for Sully’s head or Tomlins head 24/7 when things aren’t going great. Yes I realize I’m talking about football as well, but respectively these guys both have great records and one little funk and the world is over. 2 cups, and another playoff run last year. Wtf is everyone so upset about Jesus Christ. People don’t seem to understand what we have here and take it for granted, **** gets old.

Flame suit on.

In their defense, the penguins are now 28th in the league and tied for last in the eastern conference. That isn't a bad game or two, it is starting to look like a bad season lol. If things keep going this way, they very well could miss the playoffs. Don't think anyone wants to see that if it is avoidable.

I think the line combination stuff has always been overstated, but I do blame coaching (coaching, not necessarily just Sullivan) for not fixing the defensive issues, which seem to have been getting progressively worse each year.

I also don't like how I keep hearing how nervous the players are, which I do blame Sullivan for, because he was so good at keeping the players calm.

 

[EightyOne]

didnt watch last night. so we lost because of our PK after trading our best penalty killer? wtf

That's incredibly simplistic.

They lost this game the other 57 minutes outside of those PKs.

 

[chethejet]

Pens will address some issues, but father time will catch the Pens eventually. Pens makeup will have to change and cap situation will need to change to support older players with younger talent. Brassard will be a positive when healthy and with a add to the D on the right side until Schultz returns helps. But as constructed, supporting cast has to play much much better.

 

[cheesedanish87]

I can actually explain the differences, as they have to do with the rates/distribution of HD, MD and LD shots against. Murray's 5on5 HD shots/60 is 44% higher than DeSmith's (10.19 vs 7.09), while DeSmith has a 18% and 10% higher MD & LD 5on5 shots/60. Their overall 5on5 GAA are 3.13 for Murray and 2.05 for DeSmith, but if you swapped the shot distribution and kept the same sv% for each HD, MD and LD category, you'd have Murray at 2.51 and DeSmith at 2.58.

Murray has a LDsv% of 0.99, so it's not as if he's giving up many bad goals at 5on5. However, he's not making a bunch of hard saves either, or at least not at the rate one would hope/expect. Make no mistake though, Murray and DeSmith do not see the same shot quality at 5on5... or 5on3

Player Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick

I'v noticed lots of shots that Murray isn't able to catch with his glove that end up turning into scoring chances for the other team, maybe that has something to do with it.

Murray glove hand is basically another blocker, so when teams shoot at his glove and the puck hits his glove the puck drops right in front of the crease which creates scoring chances for the other team.

If Murray was able to catch the puck with the glove he could eliminate some of those scoring chances.

 

[Fat Elvis]

How was Pearson in his 1st game? Hope he's able to turn it around for you guys.

 

[EightyOne]

How was Pearson in his 1st game? Hope he's able to turn it around for you guys.

Non factor. Like 16 other pens. Lol. LAK and PIT have much in common...

 

[EliteGoaltending]

It isn't a system problem. But roster usage has clearly been Sullivan's biggest problem, and it has thrown the whole team into disarray. He seems to be doing everything in his power to get the absolute least out of the pieces he has.

- Rust as Sid's most consistent RW despite it never ****ing working
- only 1 HS between Maatta and JJ all season
- the idiotic Brassard to LW experiment, which moves Guentzel to RW and nullifies our bottom 6
- Guentzel away from Sid
- refusing to give Brassard any skill to work with when he's in his rightful spot at 3C
- the plug parade on the 4th line who "give the team the best chance to win"
- everything about how he's used Sprong, peaking with his absurd podium reaction last night

This is a man who'd rather lose if he can't win in his own stubborn way.

You forgot Hornqvist with Malkin and Hagelin-Hornqvist with Malkin. He handcuffs Geno a lot more so than Sid.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

You forgot Hornqvist with Malkin and Hagelin-Hornqvist with Malkin. He handcuffs Geno a lot more so than Sid.

Might as well give it up, man. Everyone seems to love that abomination. Hornqvist's general awesomeness tends to blind people, I think.

 

[Gurglesons]

How was Pearson in his 1st game? Hope he's able to turn it around for you guys.

Helped set up a tying goal with a pretty solid effort to get the puck out of our d-zone and then some net play.

 

[FreeBobbyFarnham]

How was Pearson in his 1st game? Hope he's able to turn it around for you guys.

Let's just say he made Taylor Pyatt proud. But tbf it was probably a long trip for him, so let's see how he does after some rest.

 

[Fat Elvis]

Helped set up a tying goal with a pretty solid effort to get the puck out of our d-zone and then some net play.

Good to hear about the net presence. He stopped doing that in LA this season.

 

[Gurglesons]

Good to hear about the net presence. He stopped doing that in LA this season.

He played a very vanilla game tbh last night. But, I’m sure that has a lot to do the lack of prep, playing with Malkin and the differences in our system.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Yeah, Pearson was fine last night. Not great, but not terrible. Malkin looked very off at ES last night and Pearson isn't going to be the player that fixes that for him.

I do think that line needs more speed though, I want Rust with the Pearson-Malkin duo.

 

[Turin]

No no, you're right.

It'd definitely not coaching when the following are playing mediocre to terribly:

• Cullen
• Sheahan
• Rust
• Maatta
• Ruhwedel
• Johnson
• Wilson
• Aston-Reese
• Guentzel (for long stretches)
• Hagelin - Before he left
• Brassard - Before his injury
• Murray
• Riikola - Has moments where he's good, but then he's scratched.
• Sprong - 8mins on the 4th line guys, he's had every opportunity obviously.
• Grant - Good god he sucks
• Oleksiak - Up and down all season

Total of 15 (16 if you still include Hagelin)

Vs the guys that have played well in:

• Crosby - For some stretches he was crap
• Malkin - For some stretches he was crap
• Letang - Had some bumps in a few games, but mostly solid.
• DeSmith
• Kessel - Hotdoggy.
• Hornqvist - Has had his moments.
• Dumoulin - Always solid.

Total of 7 players that have played fairly well for the most part.

32% of the players have played well.
68% of the players have played mediocre to bad.

If I give you a store to run and every single employee outside of the already solid ones are doing poorly, there's usually a reason why, the man in charge sucks. In this case, it's the coaching and his staff of nimrods.

You can try all you want, I have made my mind up about Sullivan.

You made up your mind about him last season, but ok.

 

[KIRK]

I agree 100% with the spittin chiclets guys from their podcast yesterday. We probably have the worst fan base in sports or at least one of the worst. The pirates are probably the only team in this city that deserves the **** talking it gets.

People callings for Sully’s head or Tomlins head 24/7 when things aren’t going great. Yes I realize I’m talking about football as well, but respectively these guys both have great records and one little funk and the world is over. 2 cups, and another playoff run last year. Wtf is everyone so upset about Jesus Christ. People don’t seem to understand what we have here and take it for granted, **** gets old.

Flame suit on.

 

[KIRK]

Yeah, Pearson was fine last night. Not great, but not terrible. Malkin looked very off at ES last night and Pearson isn't going to be the player that fixes that for him.

I do think that line needs more speed though, I want Rust with the Pearson-Malkin duo.

I'm not how you could say Malkin was on or off when Pearson and Horny did more to keep the puck away from him than Tampa did. THAT is 100% why Sid hates playing with Horny, by the way.

EDIT: Yes, Rust would be a better fit on the RW.

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

Team still needs some further moves. Anyone other than Crosby/Malkin/Kessel/Dumoulin/Letang/Guentzel/Hornqvist is fair game. Rest of the team is stale.

Sullivan is going to get this season and next at least, he has the longest leash of any coach in the league considering what he's done over the past 3 years.

 

[vikingGoalie]

I can actually explain the differences, as they have to do with the rates/distribution of HD, MD and LD shots against. Murray's 5on5 HD shots/60 is 44% higher than DeSmith's (10.19 vs 7.09), while DeSmith has a 18% and 10% higher MD & LD 5on5 shots/60. Their overall 5on5 GAA are 3.13 for Murray and 2.05 for DeSmith, but if you swapped the shot distribution and kept the same sv% for each HD, MD and LD category, you'd have Murray at 2.51 and DeSmith at 2.58.

Murray has a LDsv% of 0.99, so it's not as if he's giving up many bad goals at 5on5. However, he's not making a bunch of hard saves either, or at least not at the rate one would hope/expect. Make no mistake though, Murray and DeSmith do not see the same shot quality at 5on5... or 5on3

Player Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick

Well stats are part of the story.
While it's an interesting exercise that you did. The problem is it only tells part of the problem. Murray is not playing calm/collected and absorbing rebounds like he used to. He used to control the play, AND he had a calming influence on his team.
So first off when your team doesn't trust your goalie they tend to play worse defense. I know it seems oxymoronic, but I've seen that many times the team starts doing too much and quickly gets out of position and makes matters worse.

Secondly what that stat can not show is how many times play continued because of Murray not helping control the play and when the longer the play continues the more likely you will have a higher danger chance.

There really is no getting around being 42nd in the league percentage wise if you wanna argue that he maybe should be 25th then ok. The point remains that I don't need fancy stats to see that Murray is fighting the puck, ALOT. I also don't need stats to see that DeSmith is seeing the puck a ton better and controlling rebounds and helping control play better as well.

If you are trying to tell me that Murray is playing better then DeSmith then I have a bridge I want to sell you. Caufield even is starting to call murray out and that's almost unheard of from him. I dunno if he is just a flash in the pan, if he just can't get over the loss of his dad, he's upset because he can't find that last Pokemon card, who knows. Doesn't matter really, he's playing poorly and until that changes he should not be the starter. Period. Trading Gus for Brassard is starting to seem like a bad move

 

[Dennis Reynolds]

So many players on this roster aren't playing like NHLers.

Riley Sheahan is playing like a regular healthy scratch.
Zach Aston-Reese is a contending team's 15th forward.
Derek Grant is a contending team's 17th forward.
Garrett Wilson is a contending team's 20th forward.
Matt Cullen is just old. (sorry, dad)
Chad Ruhwedel is a contending team's 10th defenseman.

No team wins anything with them in the lineup.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Pens are obviously pacing themselves.

 

[SHOOTANDSCORE]

Read between the lines. Coach is going with guys that played like he did.

Someone said he got bumped up when they benched Sheahan.

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

Pens are obviously pacing themselves.

There's some truth to that, but the pens have also accumulated quite a bit of dead weight over the past year. It also seems that between Sheary/Rust we kept the wrong one.

 

[CascadiaPenguin]

... Trading Gus for Brassard is starting to seem like a bad move

It's starting to look like trading ANYTHING for Brassard was foolish...