Post-Game Talk: Lightning 4, Penguins 3 - Goodnight Saigon

[Tasty Biscuits]

He’s literally only been on the ice for like 4 GA all season. That’s kind of the most important part of defense.

Something something something corsi.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Lol what

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Lol what

 

[Tasty Biscuits]

I also don't like how I keep hearing how nervous the players are, which I do blame Sullivan for, because he was so good at keeping the players calm.

He was? Or Tocchet was?

 

[Tasty Biscuits]

Lol what

C'mon.... think of the children.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Is that... normal? I can't really recall something like that in the past.

And 100 bucks? That's probably the max allowable fine in the NHL, though.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Did he hit him with his walker?

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Is that... normal? I can't really recall something like that in the past.

And 100 bucks? That's probably the max allowable fine in the NHL, though.

$100 will buy you lunch at Panera's

 

[Tom Hanks]

Except for Crosby, Malkin, Kessel, Hornqvist, Letang and Dumoulin who’ve been generally great. The D sucks. Riley Sheahan sucks. Bryan Rust sucks. Matt Murray sucks. Sullivan can’t make them smarter or faster, he can’t give them better hands, he can’t force Murray to save at least 90% of the shots. Berate Sullivan for his lines all you want, this isn’t a system problem.

Add Simon and De Smith to your list of good players to give us a total of 8. 8 good players on a 23 man roster. The greatest coach in the world couldn’t fix that.

Players themselves have to take a lot of the responsibility for being bad. JR has to make some more moves and Sully has to get them to gel.

It’s a team game and we are sucking as a team and it’s up to management, coaches and players to fix it. Start by changing up the players first and foremost as they are the biggest issue.

 

[Turin]

Add Simon and De Smith to your list of good players to give us a total of 8. 8 good players on a 23 man roster. The greatest coach in the world couldn’t fix that.

Players themselves have to take a lot of the responsibility for being bad. JR has to make some more moves and Sully has to get them to gel.

It’s a team game and we are sucking as a team and it’s up to management, coaches and players to fix it. Start by changing up the players first and foremost as they are the biggest issue.

True, Simon and DeSmith have been really solid and exemplify why this is a player problem. Including Murray.

 

[EightyOne]

DoPS is unhinged.

 

[DegenX]

Did he hit him with his walker?

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

$100 will buy you lunch at Panera's

Whoops, hahaha... dropped a zero.

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

Well stats are part of the story.
While it's an interesting exercise that you did. The problem is it only tells part of the problem. Murray is not playing calm/collected and absorbing rebounds like he used to. He used to control the play, AND he had a calming influence on his team.
So first off when your team doesn't trust your goalie they tend to play worse defense. I know it seems oxymoronic, but I've seen that many times the team starts doing too much and quickly gets out of position and makes matters worse.

Secondly what that stat can not show is how many times play continued because of Murray not helping control the play and when the longer the play continues the more likely you will have a higher danger chance.

There really is no getting around being 42nd in the league percentage wise if you wanna argue that he maybe should be 25th then ok. The point remains that I don't need fancy stats to see that Murray is fighting the puck, ALOT. I also don't need stats to see that DeSmith is seeing the puck a ton better and controlling rebounds and helping control play better as well.

If you are trying to tell me that Murray is playing better then DeSmith then I have a bridge I want to sell you. Caufield even is starting to call murray out and that's almost unheard of from him. I dunno if he is just a flash in the pan, if he just can't get over the loss of his dad, he's upset because he can't find that last Pokemon card, who knows. Doesn't matter really, he's playing poorly and until that changes he should not be the starter. Period. Trading Gus for Brassard is starting to seem like a bad move

Agree with all of this. The same criticisms that were levied on MAF (not controlling rebounds/freezing pucks to help out) are now happening with Murray and he rightfully should be called out for it

DeSmith should get the majority of the starts until he implodes/exposed. MM has not earned his net back

 

[kilowatt]

Hey all, how did Pearson play?

 

[ncm7772]

Let's just say he made Taylor Pyatt proud. But tbf it was probably a long trip for him, so let's see how he does after some rest.

Ugh, nightmares. Forgot about that guy.

 

[FreeBobbyFarnham]

Hey all, how did Pearson play?

Didn't make much of an impact tbh. Can't blame him though he was probably tired from the trip.

 

[billybudd]

DoPS is unhinged.

As I've been saying, there's an intentional element of randomness in enforcement with the current crop at DoPS. Occasionally over-punish for something minor, occasionally let a guy off with a slap on the wrist for something big. This creates an environment of uncertainty about what can and can't be done (without giving the impression of a permissive environment) and the wide, blurry line removes the possibility of "playing right on the edge without going over." Guys are never sure what they can be hammered for, only that it's a possibility. Most guys will walk on eggshells once they realize this.

There's some research that suggests this would better modify behavior than Shanahan's "clearly defined" plan did. Frankly, I think it's working, Tom Wilson notwithstanding.

 

[UnrealMachine]

Well stats are part of the story.
While it's an interesting exercise that you did. The problem is it only tells part of the problem. Murray is not playing calm/collected and absorbing rebounds like he used to. He used to control the play, AND he had a calming influence on his team.
So first off when your team doesn't trust your goalie they tend to play worse defense. I know it seems oxymoronic, but I've seen that many times the team starts doing too much and quickly gets out of position and makes matters worse.

Secondly what that stat can not show is how many times play continued because of Murray not helping control the play and when the longer the play continues the more likely you will have a higher danger chance.

There really is no getting around being 42nd in the league percentage wise if you wanna argue that he maybe should be 25th then ok. The point remains that I don't need fancy stats to see that Murray is fighting the puck, ALOT. I also don't need stats to see that DeSmith is seeing the puck a ton better and controlling rebounds and helping control play better as well.

If you are trying to tell me that Murray is playing better then DeSmith then I have a bridge I want to sell you. Caufield even is starting to call murray out and that's almost unheard of from him. I dunno if he is just a flash in the pan, if he just can't get over the loss of his dad, he's upset because he can't find that last Pokemon card, who knows. Doesn't matter really, he's playing poorly and until that changes he should not be the starter. Period. Trading Gus for Brassard is starting to seem like a bad move

I'm not saying that Murray passes the eye test, but the numbers speak for themselves in terms of shot quality. You can see an even greater disparity on the PK where Murray averages 25 (not a typo) more shots against per 60 than DeSmith. Yes, 62.5 vs 37.5 shots/60. Just to be perfectly clear and so that this is not lost in translation: 62.5 vs 37.5.

I personally didn't have any issues with any of the goals against last night. I know people lost their minds over goal no. 4, but it was a perfectly placed one-timer slapshot off of the post and in on the PP. Those are the breaks sometimes. He looked worse after that, but somehow didn't manage to let in another goal (mercyful fate?). If I have any point at all it's that the play in front of Murray is making him look even worse than how he is playing. Also, I could do with less winking in future replies.

Player Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick

 

[StaalForOne]

Lol what

I know its a random fine we rarely see, but I thought it was an ugly play by Cullen. He pushed the back of his knee, and that can be very dangerous. Props to DoPS for that, assuming they keep it up with other similar plays.

 

[KIRK]

Did he hit him with his walker?

 

[KIRK]

Hey all, how did Pearson play?

He did a good job helping Hornqvist keep the puck away from Malkin almost all night.

Joke aside, easy to see both the talent and how broken/lacking confidence he is right now.

 

[JTG]

The defense needs Schultz in the worst way. Everyone is miscast right now.

ZAR had some good play. Dude is strong as a bull. I thought he was using his size well and his skating was strong. I'm excited to see how he continues to develop here. I really liked his game last night.

 

[KIRK]

The defense needs Schultz in the worst way. Everyone is miscast right now.

ZAR had some good play. Dude is strong as a bull. I thought he was using his size well and his skating was strong. I'm excited to see how he continues to develop here. I really liked his game last night.

Yes, but Schultz alone solves little.

Maatta and Oleksiak have to go (assuming we're stuck with Johnson).

 

[vodeni]

The defense needs Schultz in the worst way. Everyone is miscast right now.

ZAR had some good play. Dude is strong as a bull. I thought he was using his size well and his skating was strong. I'm excited to see how he continues to develop here. I really liked his game last night.

I thought it was his best game this year and yes he was still terrible, he reminds me of old Kunitz, always step late to the defensman and then pretend hit, but last night I noticed occasionally he was in good position which considering that he seems to be loved by coaches is half full glass I guess. just slow, they are all slow...and they have no hands (I mean bottom six suspects)