OT: Lets talk about stocks (Part 2)

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Mrb1p

PRICERSTOPDAPUCK
Dec 10, 2011
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Get an older place in Pierrfonds. Visit Fairview mall on the weekends. :)
Havent checked the market in this area but id be surprised if it was affordable lol.

My best friend bought last year on the south shore for 275ish and his neighbors next door just sold for 375.

Im crying because its such a small and old place too.
 

Lafleurs Guy

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Jul 20, 2007
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Havent checked the market in this area but id be surprised if it was affordable lol.

My best friend bought last year on the south shore for 275ish and his neighbors next door just sold for 375.

Im crying because its such a small and old place too.
I grew up right in this area. It was great back in the day.

Pierrefonds Real Estate - Houses for Sale: from $495,000 in Pierrefonds

Dated, but if you're handy...

Right near Pierrefonds Park pool (if it's still there.)
 
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Lafleurs Guy

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Jul 20, 2007
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Jesus half a mil for this :laugh:


Edit: i think youre near Toronto, right? Thats why these prices may not be too shocking for you
Yeah... it's insane here. My investment property is in Hamilton. Bought just before it went up like 35 percent. Plus I had it renoed when things were affordable. My timing was very lucky.

I'm stupid though, I had been told repeatedly to do it ten years ago. I could've had like half a dozen homes if I'd done it back then.
 

canucklover123

Registered User
Oct 22, 2013
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I was lucky enough to buy a rental condo in st henri before the Covid impact. Still lucky to have it rented above my mortgage mainly due to the property not being that expensive.

I’ve noticed with nicer condos say 450k and up in downtown, it’s really hard to cover your mortgage and stay cash flow positive. I think I’ll stick to the lower end condos close to metros and affordable to students and professionals to rent.

I live in the west but I’m looking to buy a condo downtown, looks like for a 2 bed and a garage, I’m looking at 500 plus. Tough to digest lol.

being single and mid twenties, might not be the best move but I do have some cash coming in from a couple properties I own being cash flow Positive
 
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Lafleurs Guy

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Jul 20, 2007
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I was lucky enough to buy a rental condo in st henri before the Covid impact. Still lucky to have it rented above my mortgage mainly due to the property not being that expensive.

I’ve noticed with nicer condos say 450k and up in downtown, it’s really hard to cover your mortgage and stay cash flow positive. I think I’ll stick to the lower end condos close to metros and affordable to students and professionals to rent.

I live in the west but I’m looking to buy a condo downtown, looks like for a 2 bed and a garage, I’m looking at 500 plus. Tough to digest lol.

being single and mid twenties, might not be the best move but I do have some cash coming in from a couple properties I own being cash flow Positive
Lesson I learned later in life, the way to wealth is by leveraging credit into investments. How many rich guys out there have used other people's money to get where they are?

If you have the credit, use it, esp with rates being so ridiculously low.

If nothing else, take out some credit and put it into some safer stocks over the next couple of years. The economy is going to boom. Invest in Microsoft or something like that. You get the growth plus some dividends. They're going to make hand over fist in their Azure platform. Still a good buy today.

Interest rates are so low, it's like an interest free loan. Borrow 100k, make the monthly payments on it... as long as your investment is making over 3% you're in the black. As an example, if MS goes up say 15%, you've made 15k + the dividends. Subtract the 3k or whatever in interest and you're up roughly 12k. All that for basically doing nothing.

There is risk of course and you have to be willing to tolerate it. But it's not a bad strategy. Same with housing. Leverage the loan to buy a house...

Good for you for figuring it out earlier than most. I made some good real estate investments moving from one home to the next but I wish I'd bought some property and some stock. Oh well, better late than never.
 
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Scintillating10

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Jun 15, 2012
19,320
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Nova Scotia
Lesson I learned later in life, the way to wealth is by leveraging credit into investments. How many rich guys out there have used other people's money to get where they are?

If you have the credit, use it, esp with rates being so ridiculously low.

If nothing else, take out some credit and put it into some safer stocks over the next couple of years. The economy is going to boom. Invest in Microsoft or something like that. You get the growth plus some dividends. They're going to make hand over fist in their Azure platform. Still a good buy today.

Interest rates are so low, it's like an interest free loan. Borrow 100k, make the monthly payments on it... as long as your investment is making over 3% you're in the black. As an example, if MS goes up say 15%, you've made 15k + the dividends. Subtract the 3k or whatever in interest and you're up roughly 12k. All that for basically doing nothing.

There is risk of course and you have to be willing to tolerate it. But it's not a bad strategy. Same with housing. Leverage the loan to buy a house...

Good for you for figuring it out earlier than most. I made some good real estate investments moving from one home to the next but I wish I'd bought some property and some stock. Oh well, better late than never.
Where can you loans 3%?
 
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QuebecPride

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May 4, 2010
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Lesson I learned later in life, the way to wealth is by leveraging credit into investments. How many rich guys out there have used other people's money to get where they are?

If you have the credit, use it, esp with rates being so ridiculously low.

If nothing else, take out some credit and put it into some safer stocks over the next couple of years. The economy is going to boom. Invest in Microsoft or something like that. You get the growth plus some dividends. They're going to make hand over fist in their Azure platform. Still a good buy today.

Interest rates are so low, it's like an interest free loan. Borrow 100k, make the monthly payments on it... as long as your investment is making over 3% you're in the black. As an example, if MS goes up say 15%, you've made 15k + the dividends. Subtract the 3k or whatever in interest and you're up roughly 12k. All that for basically doing nothing.

There is risk of course and you have to be willing to tolerate it. But it's not a bad strategy. Same with housing. Leverage the loan to buy a house...

Good for you for figuring it out earlier than most. I made some good real estate investments moving from one home to the next but I wish I'd bought some property and some stock. Oh well, better late than never.

Leverage investing in stocks is not a good idea.

“It is crazy in my view to borrow money on securities,” he told CNBC on Monday. “It’s insane to risk what you have and need for something you don’t really need. ... You will not be way happier if you double your net worth.”

“My partner Charlie says there is only three ways a smart person can go broke: liquor, ladies and leverage,” he said. “Now the truth is — the first two he just added because they started with L — it’s leverage.”

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/26/buf...adies-and-leverage-leverage-is-the-worst.html
 

Habs

We should have drafted Michkov
Feb 28, 2002
21,271
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thinking of grabbing some Ocugen, Inc. (OCGN) on the dip, their new Covid vaccine looks... amazing. Anyone else looking at them?
 

japhi

Registered User
Jul 7, 2014
3,737
3,076
Leveraging up to buy equities can make sense, in November we took money out of our home to invest. Borrowed at 1.74% as part of our new mortgage and that portfolio is up 22%. No concerns because if the debt is called we have

Problem with leverage like this, or a HELOC, is the nature of the loan and how all of the pieces can work in unison against you. The loan is on demand, meaning it can be called anytime. Further, the relationship between the value of the asset being borrowed against, the interest rate and the value of the equities bought is one whereby they can all be working against you at the same time. Leverage is a two way street - rising interest rates usually mean declining home values. Declining home values would impact the economy and have an effect on stocks.

Canadians are leveraged to the tits and it won't take much for all that leverage to turn on us. If money got more expensive, homes decreased by 15-20% and equities followed, loans will be called for those that don't have proper income support. Easy to believe that these things can't happen but it will at some point, home prices in Toronto declined by 25% in 89 and took 15 years to recover to 88 prices with inflation factored in. We are due for a pretty sizeable housing correction - could be May, could be 5 years from now - so I'd tread lightly with leverage unless you have significant income or equity.
 
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japhi

Registered User
Jul 7, 2014
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We find out if our offer was accepted later today.

The anxiety from the uncertainty is crippling.

Crazy how emotional home buying is. I don't get too worked up about stuff but buying our last home was intense.
 

Habs

We should have drafted Michkov
Feb 28, 2002
21,271
14,819
thinking of grabbing some Ocugen, Inc. (OCGN) on the dip, their new Covid vaccine looks... amazing. Anyone else looking at them?

Bought @ 10, up to 11.66 after hours as Dr Fauci mentions it. Keep an eye on this folks, could make a nice run!
 

japhi

Registered User
Jul 7, 2014
3,737
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That's breaking cardinal rule of investing. What if you got into another Lehman Brothers, Enron or Nortel? Be in a mess

US equities have around 1T leveraged against them so hardly a cardinal rule of investing.

As long as you are diversified, shouldn't be an issue.

If you borrow to invest in a single stock then ya, that would be pretty stupid. But buying say an SP500 ETF any time over the past 10 years would have returned 10%+, last 20 years including the GFC around 6%.
 
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Lafleurs Guy

Guuuuuuuy!
Jul 20, 2007
75,242
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Leverage investing in stocks is not a good idea.

“It is crazy in my view to borrow money on securities,” he told CNBC on Monday. “It’s insane to risk what you have and need for something you don’t really need. ... You will not be way happier if you double your net worth.”

“My partner Charlie says there is only three ways a smart person can go broke: liquor, ladies and leverage,” he said. “Now the truth is — the first two he just added because they started with L — it’s leverage.”

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/26/buf...adies-and-leverage-leverage-is-the-worst.html
I appreciate what he's saying and there is wisdom in those words.

However, it's about risk tolerance. I used 100k as the example because it was a nice round number. If you want to use less, that's fine. Whatever you can afford to LOSE.

I also wouldn't do this and go buying something like... crypto. That would be an insane move. However, I think it's a fair bet that the market is going to have a good upcoming couple of years. I think if you take a calculated risk on some stocks that are poised to do well, it's worth it.

Of course, only do what you can afford to lose.
 

QuebecPride

Registered User
May 4, 2010
8,000
2,439
Sherbrooke, Québec
I appreciate what he's saying and there is wisdom in those words.

However, it's about risk tolerance. I used 100k as the example because it was a nice round number. If you want to use less, that's fine. Whatever you can afford to LOSE.

I also wouldn't do this and go buying something like... crypto. That would be an insane move. However, I think it's a fair bet that the market is going to have a good upcoming couple of years. I think if you take a calculated risk on some stocks that are poised to do well, it's worth it.

Companies are already leveraged enough IMO, you don't need to add extra risk. I would agree that leverage investing especially in a single stock is a lot more risky than in the market as a whole. But slight leverage. Maybe 10-15% max.

You do need a much higher risk tolerance to leverage invest, but it is an unnecessary risk as Buffett and Munger explain.
 

Lafleurs Guy

Guuuuuuuy!
Jul 20, 2007
75,242
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Companies are already leveraged enough IMO, you don't need to add extra risk. I would agree that leverage investing especially in a single stock is a lot more risky than in the market as a whole. But slight leverage. Maybe 10-15% max.

You do need a much higher risk tolerance to leverage invest, but it is an unnecessary risk as Buffett and Munger explain.
Well, buying a second home is an unnecessary risk as well. Does that mean it was the wrong move for me to buy one? I don't think so.

Homes are now beyond the point of being worth buying as an investment. Some people have credit sitting on the sidelines and the economy is expected to boom over the next couple of years. I'm willing to tolerate that risk because I'm going to borrow money that I know I could pay back if I lost it all.
 

japhi

Registered User
Jul 7, 2014
3,737
3,076
Companies are already leveraged enough IMO, you don't need to add extra risk. I would agree that leverage investing especially in a single stock is a lot more risky than in the market as a whole. But slight leverage. Maybe 10-15% max.

You do need a much higher risk tolerance to leverage invest, but it is an unnecessary risk as Buffett and Munger explain.

Love Buffet but some of the quotes attributed to him really need to be time stamped. Was he discussing leverage when rates were 10%+ or the past few years when money was free? He also talks a lot about diversification but has a pretty concentrated portfolio - Apple is something like 40% percent of his holdings.

I don't think leveraging is for everyone, and a lot of folks are going to get crushed in the near future, but for the average Joe it offers the only real path to wealth. I think most folks would be much better off rebalancing the net worth they have in RE by moving money to market based ETF's. Most of HELOC money goes to toys, second homes, vacations, etc. Much better to have that money in the markets.
 
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