OT: Let's talk about movies and TV - Part XXIII
- Thread starter Lshap
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Lets be honest, Tyrion strikes out a lot lately. It's not about being a genius, they just made him out to be not very smart at all. He looks very gullible and unable to lead or reel in anyone.
Actual light spoilers for last episode(Don't click if you're not interested):
I'm unsure about 'melt down'. If anyone saw my prediction a couple weeks back I called a lot of it. Some(not all) is pretty obvious when you think 'generic story ending'.
Redux91
I do Three bullets.
Good GoT Episode i guess, curious as to how they wrap it up, obviously lol
But its pretty clear now they could of made Episodes 1 2 3 of Season 8, as episodes 8 9 and 10 for season 7... and we could of got a whole 10 episode season 8 to focus on this whole "last 3 episodes", its just a bit of a shame on that part.
The lightning pace of the last 2 seasons will forever be a slight blemish on an otherwise great overall series.
But a small example of where the lightning pace really hurt last episode :
But its pretty clear now they could of made Episodes 1 2 3 of Season 8, as episodes 8 9 and 10 for season 7... and we could of got a whole 10 episode season 8 to focus on this whole "last 3 episodes", its just a bit of a shame on that part.
The lightning pace of the last 2 seasons will forever be a slight blemish on an otherwise great overall series.
But a small example of where the lightning pace really hurt last episode :
Episode 4 : Tyrion tells Varys "the big secret"
Right away episode 5 : Varys is being executed for treason because of said big secret
Tyrion tells Varys "it was me"
WELL NO ****! lmao that scene was void of emotion unfortunately
Right away episode 5 : Varys is being executed for treason because of said big secret
Tyrion tells Varys "it was me"
WELL NO ****! lmao that scene was void of emotion unfortunately
I never read the GoT books so I can only go by the show...
Every season, the show finds a way to enrage me. Ned dies, I was pissed AF. Red Wedding, pisses me off. I was mad because they were killing characters I actually cared about.
But now, I’m pissed because I don’t care. I should be upset about the deaths in this episode (or happy) but I just didn’t care. Show was a one hour blood bath and I was bored.
Every season, the show finds a way to enrage me. Ned dies, I was pissed AF. Red Wedding, pisses me off. I was mad because they were killing characters I actually cared about.
But now, I’m pissed because I don’t care. I should be upset about the deaths in this episode (or happy) but I just didn’t care. Show was a one hour blood bath and I was bored.
I get why Dany went nuts. I get why Jon and Tyrion are either blind or stupid. But Cersei and Jamie dying felt anticlimactic. Varys’ dying I saw coming, but at the same time, it came out of left field. Even the showdown with the Hound and the Mountain didn’t feel epic.
The episode dragged for me and while I know there is still an episode left, the fallout from this episode as well as the season isn’t something you can neatly tie-up with an episode left.
The episode dragged for me and while I know there is still an episode left, the fallout from this episode as well as the season isn’t something you can neatly tie-up with an episode left.
Draft
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- Jan 23, 2013
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I've been disappointed with the season overall, this episode wasn't that different, but did have some redeeming qualities. Honestly, everything is great..... except the writing. Dialogue, reveals, plot devices, character development, etc. is all weak af. Way too rushed - an absolute misstep by HBO and the GOT brand.
I'm all for the Mad Queen and think it fits the story and character. It stays true to some of the human flaws, weaknesses, etc. that GRRMartin has had as a foundation for his books. There isn't supposed to be a "super girl" trope. There isn't supposed to be an "omniscient genius" trope with Tyrion either. I'm fine with the outcomes and the framing, it's just been so poorly executed by the writers that it's hard to give it props.
Hmmm...he fell in love with a Wildling that tried to kill him.
But even if what you say is true, there is a big stretch from not loving her anymore to assassinating her. The innocents killed were from King's Landing, so, they're not his people. I see no reason for him to kill Dany at this point.
The only way it makes sense is if Dany really became the Mad Queen and now wants to kill Jon because he betrayed her and she knows hes the rightful heir. Then, in self defense, I could see him kill her...otherwise it makes no sense.
But I rather she killed him.
But even if what you say is true, there is a big stretch from not loving her anymore to assassinating her. The innocents killed were from King's Landing, so, they're not his people. I see no reason for him to kill Dany at this point.
The only way it makes sense is if Dany really became the Mad Queen and now wants to kill Jon because he betrayed her and she knows hes the rightful heir. Then, in self defense, I could see him kill her...otherwise it makes no sense.
But I rather she killed him.
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Lebowski
El Duderino
- Dec 5, 2010
- 17,585
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At first I was hopeful but now I'm just pissed off.
How did the writers come to a agreement on all this, knowing how high the stakes were, is just baffling to me.
Oh she dead. And she's definitely mad.
What was it; brown eyes, blue eyes, green eyes? We thought the last would be Cersei, turns out it's going to be Dany. I think that's the whole point of showing Arya meeting death in the city ruins. She's at a point of no return where she'll take it upon herself to execute Dany, rightfully so.
Jon will kill the insullied what's-his-name chief.
How did the writers come to a agreement on all this, knowing how high the stakes were, is just baffling to me.
Oh she dead. And she's definitely mad.
What was it; brown eyes, blue eyes, green eyes? We thought the last would be Cersei, turns out it's going to be Dany. I think that's the whole point of showing Arya meeting death in the city ruins. She's at a point of no return where she'll take it upon herself to execute Dany, rightfully so.
Jon will kill the insullied what's-his-name chief.
DangerDave
Mete's Shot
.Agreed. Clegane bowl was just fan service but I enjoyed it. At least the hounds arc was good
NobleSix
High Tech Low-Life.
Yikes. Talk about a disapointing season. So many WTF moments in that episode. So much potential, only to end like this. Sad.
Classic case of too little runway for such a big plane.
Classic case of too little runway for such a big plane.
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While I am not fond with how rushed they made Dany go to the dark side I am baffled that at this point you think Jon has absolutely no reason to kill Dany.
She helped him with the WWs so big points there but she killed everyone who surrendered. His bestfriend's father and brother, the people of king's landing. His family and her are at odds, clearly they don't trust her and neither do her own advisors (See: Varys, Tyrion).
Jon isn't a regular character, he's one of the few who went to the night's watch willingly. The majority of the people were low tier thieves or banished. He came from a noble house with a noble father and still elected to go there. He is someone of high moral compass. We saw what happened clearly bothered him and he even instructed men not to fight at one point. It's getting to him.
She helped him with the WWs so big points there but she killed everyone who surrendered. His bestfriend's father and brother, the people of king's landing. His family and her are at odds, clearly they don't trust her and neither do her own advisors (See: Varys, Tyrion).
Jon isn't a regular character, he's one of the few who went to the night's watch willingly. The majority of the people were low tier thieves or banished. He came from a noble house with a noble father and still elected to go there. He is someone of high moral compass. We saw what happened clearly bothered him and he even instructed men not to fight at one point. It's getting to him.
Kimota
ROY DU NORD!!!
You don't have to have a personal connection with someone. He has seen Evil at work and he has a heart therefore he has to act. Like when he stopped the woman from being raped.
He is the most courageous and empathic character on the show, he is their Captain America, he knows what must be done.
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Kimota
ROY DU NORD!!!
It was hinted at, for sure I thought she would go mad many times like when she burned the Tarleys I'm just saying this season in particular, I just didn't buy it.
The whole brown eyes, blue eyes, green thing was most likely just to throw people off. Yes, the blue eyes came to fruition but you do realize Arya is 18 and has plenty of years to kill people right? She may kill someone with green eyes when she's 39. It doesn't need to happen all at once.
I think people are reading WAY too into it. The show has had several characters and/or ideas they never properly closed.
We never know what Varys heard in the fire.
Wasn't cersei supposed to be killed by her younger brother? No...Jaime bringing her to the basement does not count, she was dead if she stayed above ground anyway.
Azor Ahai was supposed to have a sword of fire and kill the person they loved...hasn't happened unless Arya's dagger was on fire and she loved the NK.
etc...
Whether its incomplete storytelling or a diversion I find it hard to believe Arya would kill every single bad character. It would be a waste of a story to have her(or any character) be consistently killing the big boss with ease.
I think people are reading WAY too into it. The show has had several characters and/or ideas they never properly closed.
We never know what Varys heard in the fire.
Wasn't cersei supposed to be killed by her younger brother? No...Jaime bringing her to the basement does not count, she was dead if she stayed above ground anyway.
Azor Ahai was supposed to have a sword of fire and kill the person they loved...hasn't happened unless Arya's dagger was on fire and she loved the NK.
etc...
Whether its incomplete storytelling or a diversion I find it hard to believe Arya would kill every single bad character. It would be a waste of a story to have her(or any character) be consistently killing the big boss with ease.
They screwed up because Dany is kind of selfless for going to the North, risking her entire army and legacy just to be shunned by Sansa and the north. I would be pissed too but I wish they drew out that anger a little longer to show the build up.
Kimota
ROY DU NORD!!!
Her being pissed for that is fine. But going oh no the northerners hates me, psycho juice coming in(!!!!), who the Hell cares. So they hate you, Dany. It's nothing to go bunkers about. They loved you in Essos but it's Jon's hometown now. The whole thing she had with Sansa was just funny to me, felt like an episode of a bad teenage soap.
Kimota
ROY DU NORD!!!
Been like this for 4 seasons, I feel. Really terrifick directors and productions designers and actors who most often than not almost save the pretty mediocre nonsens scripts. Sometime I'm in awe for what is happening until it ends and this hollow feeling creeps in like I was just "had". Cause those directors are just some damn skilled at making every thurds look so damn good.
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OneSharpMarble
Registered User
I figured out why I am so disappointed in the show at this point. The writing is so f***ing lazy, things just happen now without any explanation, no rhyme or reason. Hey guy remember when they said Targaryens could be crazy? Well guess what Dany is crazy now, and not just a little crazy she is bat shit baby eating crazy! M Night Shamalamadingdong eat your heart out!!!
I didn't even watch the last episode on sunday because i forgot it was on, just utterly lost interest in this sack of shit.
I didn't even watch the last episode on sunday because i forgot it was on, just utterly lost interest in this sack of shit.
I disagree. Her going bonkers doesn't justify Jon killing her. They haven't even spoken, was it a moment of weakness? Did she go bat-shit crazy? Does she want more blood? Again, Jon ain't from King's Landing and those people supported Cersei. Choice or not, they followed her...so ya what she did was terrible but this is war and terrible things happen during wars. It makes no sense for Jon to go full righteous vigilante mode. None.
Cersei has done so many worse things and was such an evil person yet Jon barely if ever talked about killing her. He never wanted the Throne. So I don't see how he turns to the point of needing to kill just because Dany killed some innocent people. There is a huge stretch from holding people back from killing innocent people to let me kill the woman I love, My Queen. It's not even close man.
Important to note, she's not the only one that went bonkers. Dothrakis, Unsullied, even North Men.
Cersei has done so many worse things and was such an evil person yet Jon barely if ever talked about killing her. He never wanted the Throne. So I don't see how he turns to the point of needing to kill just because Dany killed some innocent people. There is a huge stretch from holding people back from killing innocent people to let me kill the woman I love, My Queen. It's not even close man.
Important to note, she's not the only one that went bonkers. Dothrakis, Unsullied, even North Men.
That's lame dude, and he does have a personal connection with Dany. He loves her. He was still calling her his Queen at the beginning of this episode. He doesn't want the Throne. Oh...and she's his aunt and apparently he had to tell Sansa-Arya about his roots because, they family. So now all that goes away and he doesn't care about her being his blood because she..destroyed the place where her enemy was and killed innocent people...Come on man. That's pathetic.
What makes more sense is Dany keeps going in this maddening road and she targets Sansa next as she as clearly defiant and spread the word out about Jon being the rightful heir. As that develops, Jon kills her to protect Sansa. That would actually make some sense.
Jon killing her because she killed innocent people at King's Landing would be completely stupid imo
What makes more sense is Dany keeps going in this maddening road and she targets Sansa next as she as clearly defiant and spread the word out about Jon being the rightful heir. As that develops, Jon kills her to protect Sansa. That would actually make some sense.
Jon killing her because she killed innocent people at King's Landing would be completely stupid imo
Arya killing Dany would be so stupid...I really hope they don't do that.
The story of Azor Ahai is he kills the woman he loves no?
Many say Arya is Azor Ahai but she didn't love the night king so maybe that prophecy hasn't been realized just yet.
Dany vs Cersei. Cersei has tortured people and killed selective groups, sometimes in the sake of self preservation(to stay on the throne). Dany has killed 10X the people cersei has...when they surrendered. We've grown accustomed to hating Cersei because she's a calculated evil who planned bad actions but she hasn't killed half the people Dany just did. There is an easy argument to suggest Dany has now caused more deaths.
Jon didn't talk about anyone because he was in the night's watch. IIRC I believe he tries to leave castle black to avenge either ned and they reel him back in:
He was ready to attack Joffrey pretty quickly...
The threat of the white walkers kept him around though. For a large portion of the show he thought the throne and everything else was meaningless in the face of the dead.
It isn't just about Dany killing innocents either. She has beef with sansa and clearly suggests Jon betrayed her by telling his own family information. If they ignore that, sure. If she gets up in his face about it and keeps reminding her he's a threat as long as he's alive...then maybe he'll take it to heart.
Whatever happens IF Dany dies and anyone but Jon kills her it's a failure of an arc. Sansa killing her would be the most ridiculous thing. A woman surrounded by unsullied, dothraki and a dragon will let f***ing sansa sneak in and kill her? Arya would have the technique to do so but even that would be a failure. This show has featured a large amount of character arcs and interesting characters. To make every single evil death in the hands of Arya is extremely poor writing. Jon is likely someone who can get close to Dany, not unlike Tyrion or Greyworm. Greyworm won't kill her...I'd understand more if someone said Tyrion rather than Sansa really. In the last episode Tyrion suggested his life in exchange for innocents is a fair price and that he fears Dany. So if he fears she'll do it again what stops him from maintaining that motto?
But realistically...from a closure perspective it can ONLY be Jon. If Jon remains loyal to her and Sansa/Arya kill her it would destroy his trust in his own family and their apparent trust in him. They told his secret and went against his word, killing the woman he loves and his queen. That just opens 10X the worms and it doesn't conclude anything. If Jon kills her, it's his choice.
A few weeks ago I made the following predictions:
Dany will destroy King's Landing(as seen in her vision in season 2)
Jon will not be on the throne and will be at castle black. I feel the NK arc cannot be done and he will need to return there. Tormund even suggested Jon belongs in the 'real north'.
Sansa will be lady of winterfell full time.
I suspected Sansa and Tyrion would be together but after betraying Dany I wouldn't be shocked if he's burnt too. Seems a little last minute though.
Many say Arya is Azor Ahai but she didn't love the night king so maybe that prophecy hasn't been realized just yet.
Dany vs Cersei. Cersei has tortured people and killed selective groups, sometimes in the sake of self preservation(to stay on the throne). Dany has killed 10X the people cersei has...when they surrendered. We've grown accustomed to hating Cersei because she's a calculated evil who planned bad actions but she hasn't killed half the people Dany just did. There is an easy argument to suggest Dany has now caused more deaths.
Jon didn't talk about anyone because he was in the night's watch. IIRC I believe he tries to leave castle black to avenge either ned and they reel him back in:
He was ready to attack Joffrey pretty quickly...
The threat of the white walkers kept him around though. For a large portion of the show he thought the throne and everything else was meaningless in the face of the dead.
It isn't just about Dany killing innocents either. She has beef with sansa and clearly suggests Jon betrayed her by telling his own family information. If they ignore that, sure. If she gets up in his face about it and keeps reminding her he's a threat as long as he's alive...then maybe he'll take it to heart.
Whatever happens IF Dany dies and anyone but Jon kills her it's a failure of an arc. Sansa killing her would be the most ridiculous thing. A woman surrounded by unsullied, dothraki and a dragon will let f***ing sansa sneak in and kill her? Arya would have the technique to do so but even that would be a failure. This show has featured a large amount of character arcs and interesting characters. To make every single evil death in the hands of Arya is extremely poor writing. Jon is likely someone who can get close to Dany, not unlike Tyrion or Greyworm. Greyworm won't kill her...I'd understand more if someone said Tyrion rather than Sansa really. In the last episode Tyrion suggested his life in exchange for innocents is a fair price and that he fears Dany. So if he fears she'll do it again what stops him from maintaining that motto?
But realistically...from a closure perspective it can ONLY be Jon. If Jon remains loyal to her and Sansa/Arya kill her it would destroy his trust in his own family and their apparent trust in him. They told his secret and went against his word, killing the woman he loves and his queen. That just opens 10X the worms and it doesn't conclude anything. If Jon kills her, it's his choice.
A few weeks ago I made the following predictions:
Dany will destroy King's Landing(as seen in her vision in season 2)
Jon will not be on the throne and will be at castle black. I feel the NK arc cannot be done and he will need to return there. Tormund even suggested Jon belongs in the 'real north'.
Sansa will be lady of winterfell full time.
I suspected Sansa and Tyrion would be together but after betraying Dany I wouldn't be shocked if he's burnt too. Seems a little last minute though.
Paddyjack
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