OT: Lets Go Birds! (All Baseball Talk Here)

[Tryblot]

State of the team: no direction, in a state of flux
Who to look for: O’Neill, power hitter and gold glove candidate in the outfield, plus Alex Reyes, closer who should start next season - former top 5 prospect in all of baseball before multiple years of injuries.
Who’s great? Nobody really - no superstar, other than Arenado at third.
Who sucks? Again, nobody really - many players are simply average
Impact prospects: Nolan Gorman, ETA 1-2 years; Jordan Walker, ETA 2-4 years. YMMV

I really appreciate the input, thank you so much. Sounds kinda like they're in a similar position to the blues in a way.

 

[Bobby Orrtuzzo]

I really appreciate the input, thank you so much. Sounds kinda like they're in a similar position to the blues in a way.

They’re like the late 2000s blues. Some decent/good prospects, a couple old (but still relatively productive) vets, mostly average-above average regulars, and questionable coaching/management.

 

[Tryblot]

They’re like the late 2000s blues. Some decent/good prospects, a couple old (but still relatively productive) vets, mostly average-above average regulars, and questionable coaching/management.

Okay, that's interesting to know. Who are the main rivals? Looking at the division I'm assuming the Cubs? Always good to hate another Chicago team so I was happy to see a Chicago team in the division. Any other big divisional rivals, or rivals in general?

 

[ChicagoBlues]

Okay, that's interesting to know. Who are the main rivals? Looking at the division I'm assuming the Cubs? Always good to hate another Chicago team so I was happy to see a Chicago team in the division. Any other big divisional rivals, or rivals in general?

Nobody

 

[Tryblot]

Nobody

Not a single rival? Okay.

 

[stl76]

I've been watching some baseball videos lately and have been wanting to get into baseball so I bought the baseball package. I was thinking it was only natural to pick the cardinals as my favourite team as I'm already a blues fan and I love that you can see the arch from the diamond. Tonight is the first game I'm gonna watch live so I'm curious about the team? Who should I look for? Who's great, who sucks, who are the impact prospects coming up? I see they're .500 so I'm assuming a run isn't expected this year, but what is the general state of the team?

I appreciate any input.

I'm a pretty casual baseball fan, but here's my $0.02:

The biggest story this year for the Cards has been starting pitching IMO. The Cards have been decimated by injuries this year, particularly their starting pitchers (and starting pitching was already considered a weakness going into the season). Wainwright has been their best and most consistent starting pitcher all season, when ideally he is your 4-5th best guy. Lol at his game tonight, that was just incredible. Flaherty, Mikolas, and Kim have all missed significant time, and at this point it's probably too late in the season to make a push for the playoffs.

The outfield is made up of youngish/talented players: O'Neil - Bader - Carson. Bader (27) is electric defensively, but inconsistent at the plate. O'Neil (26) is a stud. Carson (22) is a switch hitting rookie and looking great so far.

The Cards have 2-3 likely future HOF players in Arenado (3B), Goldschmidt (1B), and Yadi (C). At 39, Yadi is still a great player but is close to retirement at this point, likely only has 1 or 2 more years left. Goldy is still a very good player, but at 33 is on the tail end of his career. Arenado is a bit younger at 30 and still a legit superstar. All 3 are elite defensively.

Edman (2B/OF) and DeJong (SS) are pretty "meh" IMO. I want to love Edman, but he's been frustrating to watch this year. He has great speed, can switch hit, and can play multiple positions, so he is no doubt a useful player. Still relatively young at 26 so maybe he can still improve and make an impact. DeJong is generally solid defensively but weak offensively. He's also in the midst of a particularly bad offensive slump right now.

 

[Bobby Orrtuzzo]

Okay, that's interesting to know. Who are the main rivals? Looking at the division I'm assuming the Cubs? Always good to hate another Chicago team so I was happy to see a Chicago team in the division. Any other big divisional rivals, or rivals in general?

I’d say the Cubs (historically) and Reds (more so in the last 10-15 years I’d say)

 

[Tryblot]

I'm a pretty casual baseball fan, but here's my $0.02:

The biggest story this year for the Cards has been starting pitching IMO. The Cards have been decimated by injuries this year, particularly their starting pitchers (and starting pitching was already considered a weakness going into the season). Wainwright has been their best and most consistent starting pitcher all season, when ideally he is your 4-5th best guy. Lol at his game tonight, that was just incredible. Flaherty, Mikolas, and Kim have all missed significant time, and at this point it's probably too late in the season to make a push for the playoffs.

The outfield is made up of youngish/talented players: O'Neil - Bader - Carson. Bader (27) is electric defensively, but inconsistent at the plate. O'Neil (26) is a stud. Carson (22) is a switch hitting rookie and looking great so far.

The Cards have 2-3 likely future HOF players in Arenado (3B), Goldschmidt (1B), and Yadi (C). At 39, Yadi is still a great player but is close to retirement at this point, likely only has 1 or 2 more years left. Goldy is still a very good player, but at 33 is on the tail end of his career. Arenado is a bit younger at 30 and still a legit superstar. All 3 are elite defensively.

Edman (2B/OF) and DeJong (SS) are pretty "meh" IMO. I want to love Edman, but he's been frustrating to watch this year. He has great speed, can switch hit, and can play multiple positions, so he is no doubt a useful player. Still relatively young at 26 so maybe he can still improve and make an impact. DeJong is generally solid defensively but weak offensively. He's also in the midst of a particularly bad offensive slump right now.

Thanks for the detailed post. I truly appreciate it. It was cool to see a complete game shutout in the first game I watched and I can see what you mean about Bader as he made a couple really nice catches towards the end of the game. I personally don't mind that they likely won't make the playoffs this year as I like to see a team grow before their success, which is what happened with the Blues. I became a fan when they signed Kariya so I was able to see the team grow and have their struggles before the success.

I’d say the Cubs (historically) and Reds (more so in the last 10-15 years I’d say)

I thought it was a little weird that a storied franchise like the Cardinals wouldn't have any rivals.

 

[542365]

This season is basically a wash, but Adam Wainwright is having an unbelievable season. Not quite as good as his golden era from like 07 to '14, but still incredible for anyone, much less a guy who turns 40 in a couple weeks. I didn't really believe him in 2017/18 when he kept saying that he felt like he could still be one of the game's best pitchers. I just thought that was just athlete mentality/confidence speaking, but he really has been a solid top of the rotation type guy the past couple of seasons. Doesn't have the velo that he used to have, but his control is as good as it's ever been, and the curveball obviously still plays. I think having Mike Maddux as the pitching coach is basically the perfect situation for Waino. He made a career out of getting soft contact and keeping the ball in the yard without overpowering stuff. Obviously his brother wasn't half bad either. I don't know how he could have a better coach at this stage of his career.

 

[The Note]

This season is basically a wash, but Adam Wainwright is having an unbelievable season. Not quite as good as his golden era from like 07 to '14, but still incredible for anyone, much less a guy who turns 40 in a couple weeks. I didn't really believe him in 2017/18 when he kept saying that he felt like he could still be one of the game's best pitchers. I just thought that was just athlete mentality/confidence speaking, but he really has been a solid top of the rotation type guy the past couple of seasons. Doesn't have the velo that he used to have, but his control is as good as it's ever been, and the curveball obviously still plays. I think having Mike Maddux as the pitching coach is basically the perfect situation for Waino. He made a career out of getting soft contact and keeping the ball in the yard without overpowering stuff. Obviously his brother wasn't half bad either. I don't know how he could have a better coach at this stage of his career.

Yeah, it really is something. And it's a shame the organization is floundering and not taking advantage of it.

 

[TheDizee]

if they had a half decent manager, even with this flawed roster they'd be in a playoff spot.

 

[BadgersandBlues]

if they had a half decent manager, even with this flawed roster they'd be in a playoff spot.

Eh, Managers have way less affect on a game then I think most people realize. This team just isn't that good. Our offense doesn't produce runs. Our starting rotation has been terrible since Flaherty went down. This season was always going to be a bit of a wait-and-see with Mikolas, Hudson, and Kim out long term to start. Losing Flaherty was the icing on the sundae. Plus now we know that Martinez is finished as a starter, but may have some value as a relief option and can offer him a contract accordingly.

Next season our starting rotation should look like:

Flaherty - Mikkolas - Hudson - Kim - Waino (If he wants to come back) - that's a huge upgrade over the pu pu platter we're throwing out there on most nights. Our bullpen will still be a strength, especially if we keep Martinez and move him back to the pen (at reasonable cost) and Hicks gets healthy. Miller looks like he still has a little gas left in the tank as well, if he wants to come back on a 1 year cheap deal. Overall, our starting rotation should be top tier, probably a slight cut below Milwaukee and LA. Our bullpen might be the best in the league if everyone is healthy. It's our offense that I don't see getting any better, unless Bader/O'Neill/Carlson all take big steps forward. Edman is what he is, same with Dejong. Goldy and Arenado will be a year older, and god knows what happens with catcher. Knizner looks pretty terrible at the plate, but Yadi has to fall off a cliff at some point.

The thing I'm most frustrated by is giving up Wong for nothing. He would look really good right now as the lead-off guy. We could platoon him with Edman at second against lefties, and then that pushes Edman to the bench and stops forcing us to give Matt f***ing Carpenter's corpse 200 PAs this year. That's not on the manager though, that's on the FA.

 

[tfriede2]

Eh, Managers have way less affect on a game then I think most people realize. This team just isn't that good. Our offense doesn't produce runs. Our starting rotation has been terrible since Flaherty went down. This season was always going to be a bit of a wait-and-see with Mikolas, Hudson, and Kim out long term to start. Losing Flaherty was the icing on the sundae. Plus now we know that Martinez is finished as a starter, but may have some value as a relief option and can offer him a contract accordingly.

Next season our starting rotation should look like:

Flaherty - Mikkolas - Hudson - Kim - Waino (If he wants to come back) - that's a huge upgrade over the pu pu platter we're throwing out there on most nights. Our bullpen will still be a strength, especially if we keep Martinez and move him back to the pen (at reasonable cost) and Hicks gets healthy. Miller looks like he still has a little gas left in the tank as well, if he wants to come back on a 1 year cheap deal. Overall, our starting rotation should be top tier, probably a slight cut below Milwaukee and LA. Our bullpen might be the best in the league if everyone is healthy. It's our offense that I don't see getting any better, unless Bader/O'Neill/Carlson all take big steps forward. Edman is what he is, same with Dejong. Goldy and Arenado will be a year older, and god knows what happens with catcher. Knizner looks pretty terrible at the plate, but Yadi has to fall off a cliff at some point.

The thing I'm most frustrated by is giving up Wong for nothing. He would look really good right now as the lead-off guy. We could platoon him with Edman at second against lefties, and then that pushes Edman to the bench and stops forcing us to give Matt f***ing Carpenter's corpse 200 PAs this year. That's not on the manager though, that's on the FA.

Wainwright should come back - he still has “it.” Fully agreed on Wong - I don’t understand moving on from him and thought it was a horrible decision from the outset.

 

[Vladys Gumption]

Letting Wong go was really dumb. I like Edman, but it was obvious from day one he was best used as a super utility guy and not an every day second basemen.

 

[ChicagoBlues]

Not a single rival? Okay.

I'm sorta joking, but the Cardinals kinda suck. If they were better, then I think we would see strong rivalries again.

I just think that it's hard to have a rival when you suck.

 

[Tryblot]

I'm sorta joking, but the Cardinals kinda suck. If they were better, then I think we would see strong rivalries again.

I just think that it's hard to have a rival when you suck.

Yeah, that's fair.

Seem to be playing well though, but I understand they're playing bottom of the barrel in the last two series'.

 

[Ridge1982]

Thanks for the detailed post. I truly appreciate it. It was cool to see a complete game shutout in the first game I watched and I can see what you mean about Bader as he made a couple really nice catches towards the end of the game. I personally don't mind that they likely won't make the playoffs this year as I like to see a team grow before their success, which is what happened with the Blues. I became a fan when they signed Kariya so I was able to see the team grow and have their struggles before the success.



I thought it was a little weird that a storied franchise like the Cardinals wouldn't have any rivals.

I'm going by the decades.

1940's: Cubs, Brooklyn Dodgers
1950's: Cubs
1960's: LA Dodgers, Cubs
1970's: Cubs
1980's: Cubs and Mets
1990's: Cubs
2000's: Astros and Cubs
2010's: Cubs, Giants, Dodgers, Brewers, and Reds.
2020's: Cubs, ?

 

[TheDizee]

Shildt is a real genius.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

Ugh, every Cards game I've been to this year they've gotten walloped or the bullpin walks home 4 runners in the 8th inning after they were winning 4-2. This pitching staff needs to get better, no reason for these 35 year old pitchers on the downswing of their career to be our only stable pitching we have.

 

[Spear]

Ugh, every Cards game I've been to this year they've gotten walloped or the bullpin walks home 4 runners in the 8th inning after they were winning 4-2. This pitching staff needs to get better, no reason for these 35 year old pitchers on the downswing of their career to be our only stable pitching we have.

They're stable because they know how to pitch. Most of the young guys are just 'throwers'. Moe loves his low-hanging fruit!

 

[Linkens Mastery]

They're stable because they know how to pitch. Most of the young guys are just 'throwers'. Moe loves his low-hanging fruit!

Oh I completely understand they are seasoned. But our best pitchers of late have been Waino (always solid but has been playing like he's 30 again this past month) and Jon freaking Lester. I just can't wrap my head around that.

 

[Puck Luck]

I'm a pretty big baseball fan, so I can answer questions about the team or the sport if needed. I love to see someone give baseball a chance!

This year is kind of a transition year, so maybe not the best to make any judgements on the team (or sport). They have a lot of older guys (Wainwright, Arenado, Goldy, Molina) and a lot of younger guys (Carlson, Flaherty, O'Neill) and they're having a very up-and-down season.

The story has been injuries and pitching. Much of their rotation has been injured and/or ineffective, so they haven't had much consistency with the pitching. They can be quite wild, especially in the bullpen, and I think they're on pace for a historical number of walks and hit batters. They've issued walks with the bases loaded more times this season than I've ever seen, and that's usually pretty rare.

It's been frustrating to watch, but they're not totally out of it by the numbers. They have a chance at a spot in the playoffs if they can make a run here at the end.

Baseball is a very different pace compared to hockey, but it's still enjoyable to watch, especially an above average defensive team like the Cardinals

 

[TheDizee]

I'm a pretty big baseball fan, so I can answer questions about the team or the sport if needed. I love to see someone give baseball a chance!

This year is kind of a transition year, so maybe not the best to make any judgements on the team (or sport). They have a lot of older guys (Wainwright, Arenado, Goldy, Molina) and a lot of younger guys (Carlson, Flaherty, O'Neill) and they're having a very up-and-down season.

The story has been injuries and pitching. Much of their rotation has been injured and/or ineffective, so they haven't had much consistency with the pitching. They can be quite wild, especially in the bullpen, and I think they're on pace for a historical number of walks and hit batters. They've issued walks with the bases loaded more times this season than I've ever seen, and that's usually pretty rare.

It's been frustrating to watch, but they're not totally out of it by the numbers. They have a chance at a spot in the playoffs if they can make a run here at the end.

Baseball is a very different pace compared to hockey, but it's still enjoyable to watch, especially an above average defensive team like the Cardinals

not a playoff team with shildt managing

 

[ChicagoBlues]

not a playoff team with shildt managing

Jose no way

 

[Linkens Mastery]

I'll never understand how Scmidt has a better winning% than La Russa and Matheny. Tho, I blame a lot of that on 2019 as well.