Letang for the HoF?

[Hockeyholic]

Just a couple interesting notes comparing Letang if you care about advanced stats

(first to Zubov and Chelios)

At the end of this season, Letang will probably be ahead of Zubov in point shares through 13 seasons for each if not almost exactly even with him with more than 100 fewer GP's.

A weird stat is (points shares/games played) which Letang and Chelios are almost exactly the same through their first 13 seasons.

(now comparing him with some modern counterparts)

Letang leads Chara, Keith, and Doughty in my made-up (point shares/games played) stat - which would just mean he produces more point shares in the average game he plays.

Letang is also 3rd in the entire NHL in expected +/- (behind only #1 Crosby and #2 Bergeron) - and is the #1 Dman for expected +/- since they started keeping the stat in 14-15 on hockeyreference.

You can quibble about the usefulness of things like point shares and expected +/- but it's clear that Letang is absolutely no slouch but is very rarely recognized for being as good as he is because he's a hot head, he's got an injury history, and he plays on a team that has Sidney Crosby and Mr. 101 Malkin.

I'm not saying he's better than Zubov, Chelios, Chara, Keith, Doughty, etc. because of point shares and stuff like that - but I do think as a caliber of player he 100% belongs in that class.

God no. He most definitely shouldn't be mentioned with the bolded. Like absolutely positively not. They are much much better. I'm not even sure he's in Doughty's "class".

Regardless, I do think he will be enshrined in the HHOF someday.

 

[XanderCrews34]

God no. He most definitely shouldn't be mentioned with the bolded. Like absolutely positively not. They are much much better. I'm not even sure he's in Doughty's "class".

Regardless, I do think he will be enshrined in the HHOF someday.

Yeah but you aren't really saying anything measurable. Just asserting "God, no!" As if that's enough to just rule him out. I didn't really mean to include Chelios at the very end so I edited his name out now. But really any data you look at will tell you that he's one of the most impactful defenseman in this era. I watch the Pens all the time so obviously he passes my eye test but the data backs it up, too.

 

[Gurglesons]

God no. He most definitely shouldn't be mentioned with the bolded. Like absolutely positively not. They are much much better. I'm not even sure he's in Doughty's "class".

Regardless, I do think he will be enshrined in the HHOF someday.

Doughty is a great defenseman, but nowhere near what the media wants to make him out to be.

 

[Hockeyholic]

Yeah but you aren't really saying anything measurable. Just asserting "God, no!" As if that's enough to just rule him out. I didn't really mean to include Chelios at the very end so I edited his name out now. But really any data you look at will tell you that he's one of the most impactful defenseman in this era. I watch the Pens all the time so obviously he passes my eye test but the data backs it up, too.

Okay. Is Letang's offense enough to overcome the large gap in defense between him and the bolded? Letang can't run a PP to save his life either.

As I said, do up a poll asking who the better overall defenceman was: Letang or Keith/Chara/ Chelios/Doughty (Pick one).

 

[chethejet]

Letang and MAF have had distinguished careers and the numbers reflect that. Both to me are HOF worthy and they do have a couple more seasons to add to that. Taking an expansion team to the finals is certainly indicative of his value to any team. Ask any franchise if they take Letang as a number 1 D man and who says no? Really I grasp the posters who don't like the Pens but consider 13 going on 14 straight playoffs when no one has more than 5 is a testament of the value of these two players.

 

[Hockeyholic]

Doughty is a great defenseman, but nowhere near what the media wants to make him out to be.

He's better than Letang ever was.

 

[Gurglesons]

He's better than Letang ever was.

Not really sure about that. Peak Letang is just as dominant defensively and produces more.

 

[Hockeyholic]

Letang and MAF have had distinguished careers and the numbers reflect that. Both to me are HOF worthy and they do have a couple more seasons to add to that. Taking an expansion team to the finals is certainly indicative of his value to any team. Ask any franchise if they take Letang as a number 1 D man and who says no? Really I grasp the posters who don't like the Pens but consider 13 going on 14 straight playoffs when no one has more than 5 is a testament of the value of these two players.

Nobody is arguing he's not been a great defenceman. He's just never been on the level of a Chara, Keith, Chelios, or Doughty.

 

[Hockeyholic]

Not really sure about that. Peak Letang is just as dominant defensively and produces more.

Do a poll. Or offer facts. You brought up that he's on the level of some all time greats.

 

[Gurglesons]

Okay. Is Letang's offense enough to overcome the large gap in defense between him and the bolded? Letang can't run a PP to save his life either.

As I said, do up a poll asking who the better overall defenceman was: Letang or Keith/Chara/ Chelios/Doughty (Pick one).

Large gap in defense? Lol.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Huge Letang fan but no.

 

[Hockeyholic]

Large gap in defense? Lol.

Yes. Said players were/are much better at defense than Letang. Stop embarrassing yourself here. Please.

 

[SotasicA]

No to Hall of Fame, but they should retire his number in Pittsburgh.

 

[XanderCrews34]

Okay. Is Letang's offense enough to overcome the large gap in defense between him and the bolded? Letang can't run a PP to save his life either.

As I said, do up a poll asking who the better overall defenceman was: Letang or Keith/Chara/ Chelios/Doughty (Pick one).

Considering the entire point of my post was that the perception of Letang doesn't match his actual production kinda makes the poll idea a bit unnecessary haha.

But, in short, yes his offense more than makes up for any defensive shortcoming. He's basically a half tick below guys like Doughty, Keith, and Chara by defensive metrics - but he's also a half tick better than all of those guys offensively. Just because the strength of his game is offense doesn't mean his defense is terrible, either. He's just not quite the same guy in his own zone as some of his peers but he's better offensively by a chunk.

 

[Hockeyholic]

Considering the entire point of my post was that the perception of Letang doesn't match his actual production kinda makes the poll idea a bit unnecessary haha.

But, in short, yes his offense more than makes up for any defensive shortcoming. He's basically a half tick below guys like Doughty, Keith, and Chara by defensive metrics - but he's also a half tick better than all of those guys offensively. Just because the strength of his game is offense doesn't mean his defense is terrible, either. He's just not quite the same guy in his own zone as some of his peers but he's better offensively by a chunk.

Do a poll.

 

[XanderCrews34]

Do a poll.

Are you broken? Did you not read that I'm specifically saying that Letang doesn't get the public recognition that he deserves? Is that a tough concept?

 

[NeedleInTheHay]

Sid, Geno, maf, and Letang are all locks for the hof. If you think otherwise, you’re just plain wrong.

 

[Gurglesons]

Do a poll.

I don’t really care about what HF has to say about someone on the Penguins. It’ll be clearly slanted.

 

[Gurglesons]

Yes. Said players were/are much better at defense than Letang. Stop embarrassing yourself here. Please.

Nothing statistically points this out. And ain’t it funny how as soon as Doughty had to play with a defense that resembles Pitts over the last couple years his metrics dropped to Letang level?

Almost like the Bruins and Kings system and defensive structure has greatly benefited their “defensive first” abilities.

Keith is a better overall D than Letang. Not really sure anyone else in the league during Letang’s time is head and shoulders above him.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Do a poll. Or offer facts. You brought up that he's on the level of some all time greats.

Letang has clearly had the best career of the three.

 

[XanderCrews34]

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Letang has clearly had the best career of the three.

But is this in poll form????

 

[Hockeyholic]

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Letang has clearly had the best career of the three.

I don't see a poll on the poll section anywhere...

 

[madinsomniac]

He is like MAF ... a strong maybe... his overall talent dwarfed by occasionally playing stupid hockey, but his best stretches were easily norris worthy. Pens lucked into him. Had GMs known how the post lockout nhl was going to be, he would probably have been a first rounder....

 

[Gurglesons]

But is this in poll form????

Lolol. He actually posted that though.

 

[IcedCapp]

Are you broken? Did you not read that I'm specifically saying that Letang doesn't get the public recognition that he deserves? Is that a tough concept?

The penguins have fallen into this Bermuda Triangle of credit

“Sid is great, but not an mvp candidate, he has Geno and Letang!”
“Geno is great, but how great? He has Sid and Letang?”
“Letang is great, but, come on, he has Sid and Geno!”

None of them are “as good as they actually are” until someone needs to knock them down a peg.