Lemieux vs Barbashev

[JLewyB]

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1697947

Barbashev was the clear favorite. He had my vote. If you go BPA, Barby is the pick right there.

When we picked Lemieux, this is how I wrapped my head around it. He's such a rare commodity, a kid who wants and plays like an ultra pest who's father happened to be the best of all time at it. When projecting out our future team, we didn't have an ultra pest. A pest, especially a bigger guy like Lemieux, is good to have on roster to avert the attention of the opposing team away from McEichid. Throw in the fact that Brendan already had an NHL level shot and you could ever see him on McEichid's wing.

 

[joshjull]

I don't recall that. I do recall Barbashev being rated higher in most, if not all major scouting outlets.

I wouldn't be surprised if GM's wanted Lemieux, because he is a valuable player.

Just passing along what the talk was leading up to our pick. I don't have a dog in this fight.

 

[flashsabre]

Just passing along what the talk was leading up to our pick. I don't have a dog in this fight.

You are correct. I have mentioned this before and tried to find a clip of the beginning of Round 2 but couldn't. Bob McKenzie stated that there were a number of teams trying to trade for the Sabres pick because they all wanted to take Lemieux.

 

[Djp]

Hurley over Petan was terrible. Some picks like that just make no sense.

I disagree.

Remember Hurley was the youngest player available. Born hrs later he would have been a 2014 prospect likely drafted in the 1st. Feeling he had higher upside.

I remember Regier said at the time the reason they took a bunch of NCAA guys in 2013 was because of the contract limits at the time; where they felt they didn't have to sign them immediately and let them stew. I didn't see anything wrong with it, especially taking JT at #35. Connor and Bailey were both projected to be longer term prospects, so it wasn't necessarily a bad thing to grab him then. Those 4 picks, including Baptiste are all starting to come together; Nick and JT last year, Bailey this year, and it wouldn't surprise me to see Connor take that jump as a sophmore next year. Would Petan look like an even better pick now? Sure. But hindsight is 20/20, too. I still have faith this will all work out, especially considering we got Carrier and Fasching in that draft too. Provided we finish last this year, which is still highly likely, taking someone like Hurley as a long range prospect in such a deep draft in 2013 still might not be a bad move. Time will tell.

Regier took college/Europe players in later rounds because of having their rights for 4 or more yrs. gives the team less risk of signing a player that doesn't amount to much by giving them more time to evaluate them.

Murray did the same this year. Given the difficulty in finding any talent in round 4 or later it's better to give them more time to develop.

Regier wanted Compher and Hurley was a roll the Dice pick. Hurley also has risk. He could develop in his junior year, be a star, then do the 30 day time clock on being signed or he becomes a free agent. If he goes back for his senior year then it's till august 15.

You are correct. I have mentioned this before and tried to find a clip of the beginning of Round 2 but couldn't. Bob McKenzie stated that there were a number of teams trying to trade for the Sabres pick because they all wanted to take Lemieux.

https://mobile.twitter.com/TSNBobMcKenzie/status/482886680047652864

 

[joshjull]

It's a lot easier to talk on a draft show for day two about a kid whose dad is a well known former player than it is to talk about a Russian in the Q. The draft shows don't mean much. Look at their actual games or cross reference draft lists of several major s ccac outing services rather than a tv show that wants to attract viewers.

Yeah Bobby Mac has a real hard time talking hockey without bringing up easily recognized former players and their kid. Come on.

Bobby Mac reported there was a lot of Lemieux and prospect goalie chatter. That Buffalo was getting a lot of action on their pick because of it.

And you're right that every scouting report rated Barbeshev above Lemieux including Bobby Mac.http://www.mynhldraft.com/2014-nhl-draft-prospect-rankings/ In fact that listing of 12 different rankings had Barbeshev ranked 13th, 14th, 16th (2x), 17th (2x), 18th, 19th and 23rd (3x). An average ranking of 16.58. Only one of the twelve had Lemieux rated in the top 30 and it was at #26. Oddly enough that website had Lemieux drafted by the Devils at #30.

It very well may be a mistake passing on Barbeshev. I'm not arguing it isn't or it is. But the question is, why does the only ranking that matters (what NHL teams thought) disagree with those scouting service rankings? Why did every team in the bottom half of the first round pass on Barbeshev? Because its seems a bit much to get on Murray over this as passionately as you are when several teams had a shot at this kid where he was ranked and passed.

 

[enthusiast]

If barbashev actually blows up at least murray might take a look at the russian thing he's rumored to have

 

[Bps21*]

The russian thing he's rumored to have...

That's an actual thing now...

Like Tim Murray even sees players as human beings. He sees them as numbers that he wants to turn into a lineup of the right total.

Anyway...remember when he traded Ott at the deadline...and he said he hated trading a player like Steve Ott because he'd spent his whole career trying to get a player like Steve Ott...but the UFA and age and direction of the team...it was just bad timing.... Well he drafted the agitator who can add offense. I don't think the mystery (or "the russian thing") is a hard one to crack here.

 

[enthusiast]

The russian thing he's rumored to have...

That's an actual thing now...

Like Tim Murray even sees players as human beings. He sees them as numbers that he wants to turn into a lineup of the right total.

Anyway...remember when he traded Ott at the deadline...and he said he hated trading a player like Steve Ott because he'd spent his whole career trying to get a player like Steve Ott...but the UFA and age and direction of the team...it was just bad timing.... Well he drafted the agitator who can add offense. I don't think the mystery (or "the russian thing") is a hard one to crack here.

bruh if he wants steve ott over barbashev i'm laughing harder

 

[Sabre the Win]

If barbashev actually blows up at least murray might take a look at the russian thing he's rumored to have

Is this really rumored or are you going off the few posters that suggest it?

 

[Bps21*]

I don't think you get it.

The point is it takes different types of players to build a roster. With his million picks and prospects he may feel he already has or can easier attain what Barbashev can give him than finding that agitator who is skilled enough to move around the lineup.

Jesus Christ it's Ivan Barbashev not Evgeni Malkin.

 

[Bps21*]

My favorite part is that the anger is based off of a falsity. Barbashev was passed on 30 times before we took Lemieux. THIRTY. That's his ranking. Not top 30.

 

[enthusiast]

Is this really rumored or are you going off the few posters that suggest it?

well who else is going to rumor it tbh


it's like the rumor of his nightly floyd smith impressions that i know happens to be true

 

[enthusiast]

I don't think you get it.

The point is it takes different types of players to build a roster. With his million picks and prospects he may feel he already has or can easier attain what Barbashev can give him than finding that agitator who is skilled enough to move around the lineup.

Jesus Christ it's Ivan Barbashev not Evgeni Malkin.

i bet barbashev will be a rarer, tougher to acquire type of player than lemieux come crunch time

like really how tough can he be to acquire if he was in the second round

My favorite part is that the anger is based off of a falsity. Barbashev was passed on 30 times before we took Lemieux. THIRTY. That's his ranking. Not top 30.

so was lemieux, idgi


so was some hall of fame player that will come from a pick after lemieux

 

[Sabre the Win]

well who else is going to rumor it tbh


it's like the rumor of his nightly floyd smith impressions that i know happens to be true

Whats the difference between rumors and shiet talk?

 

[enthusiast]

Whats the difference between rumors and shiet talk?

well take my second example

i know it's true but most people would say it's a rumor


if i called murray X it's just **** talk

 

[wunderpanda]

well who else is going to rumor it tbh


it's like the rumor of his nightly floyd smith impressions that i know happens to be true

I would love a video of Tim singing Nowhere Fast

 

[jBuds]

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1697947

Barbashev was the clear favorite. He had my vote. If you go BPA, Barby is the pick right there.

When we picked Lemieux, this is how I wrapped my head around it. He's such a rare commodity, a kid who wants and plays like an ultra pest who's father happened to be the best of all time at it. When projecting out our future team, we didn't have an ultra pest. A pest, especially a bigger guy like Lemieux, is good to have on roster to avert the attention of the opposing team away from McEichid. Throw in the fact that Brendan already had an NHL level shot and you could ever see him on McEichid's wing.

We haven't played our way out of you counting on landing McEichel yet?

 

[JLewyB]

We haven't played our way out of you counting on landing McEichel yet?

Risto is waiver eligible and Zads can go to the WJC for a bit. That should do it.

 

[Ralonzo]

Tripped on this on another forum and it made me laugh and laugh

 

[NEcoli]

We haven't played our way out of you counting on landing McEichel yet?

They aren't playing all that well. Better than historically bad, so it looks good in comparison to the first month. They're still in last. Edmonton worries me though.

 

[ZeroPT*]

We haven't played our way out of you counting on landing McEichel yet?

Crazy what a lucky winning streak does to people

 

[sabrebuild]

Yeah Bobby Mac has a real hard time talking hockey without bringing up easily recognized former players and their kid. Come on.

Bobby Mac reported there was a lot of Lemieux and prospect goalie chatter. That Buffalo was getting a lot of action on their pick because of it.

And you're right that every scouting report rated Barbeshev above Lemieux including Bobby Mac.http://www.mynhldraft.com/2014-nhl-draft-prospect-rankings/ In fact that listing of 12 different rankings had Barbeshev ranked 13th, 14th, 16th (2x), 17th (2x), 18th, 19th and 23rd (3x). An average ranking of 16.58. Only one of the twelve had Lemieux rated in the top 30 and it was at #26. Oddly enough that website had Lemieux drafted by the Devils at #30.

It very well may be a mistake passing on Barbeshev. I'm not arguing it isn't or it is. But the question is, why does the only ranking that matters (what NHL teams thought) disagree with those scouting service rankings? Why did every team in the bottom half of the first round pass on Barbeshev? Because its seems a bit much to get on Murray over this as passionately as you are when several teams had a shot at this kid where he was ranked and passed.

The point is not that bobby mac doesn't know prospects. Its that his audience doesn't. Those drafts shows are not reaching for you and me. We are gonna watch and already know who most of the guys are. The tv guys are trying to get random viewers who watch the nhl a bit to stop and watch for an extra minute. Its tv 101 to use recognizable faces in that situation over an unknown. Not saying that had to be what happened but it very well could have.

I think there is a pretty clear fear by gms throughout the league to draft Russian players later than they would NA players. Some of the reasons of that are sensible and some are not. Because other teams passed means little to me in making a point about Murray being correct. None of those teams took Lemieux either.

 

[sabres4ever]

Here's Lemieux's season to date. #21 Barrie Colts Brendan Lemieux

I look forward to watching his marination. Is 2-3 years the typical amount of time until he's in our lineup?

According to those stats, many of his goals came on the PP. Hope that translates well when/if he finally makes it.

 

[boredmale]

JR stats only mean so much. While Barbashev might turn out to be a good player, Lemieux has a good shot of being one of those guys every team looks for(ie a pest who can actually play). I think it's a case if you only base it on CHL play it won't look good to pass up Barbashev, but 4-5 years from now that can change(and I wouldn't be surprised if it does)

All that being said I am surprised Barbashev feel where he did

 

[Paxon]

My favorite part is that the anger is based off of a falsity. Barbashev was passed on 30 times before we took Lemieux. THIRTY. That's his ranking. Not top 30.

That's a completely false way to determine his "ranking" as well. No one has any idea who each team would have drafted had they had a pick at #20, #21, #25, #27, #31 etc. There is no way of determining where NHL teams had players ranked. The way the draft falls does not indicate it any more than McKenzie's list does.