Lemieux vs Barbashev

[ZeroPT*]

I'm hoping "the Russian" factor comes into play and Svechnikov drops to us.

Murray won't draft him.

I'm still salty that we passed on Barbashev for Lemieux. I mean, I don't even know 1 thing Lemieux does better than Barby. Not one. Apart from being a *****.



MOD EDIT: brought this debate from the prospect repository thread.

Click to read more...

 

[sabrebuild]

Murray won't draft him.

I'm still salty that we passed on Barbashev for Lemieux. I mean, I don't even know 1 thing Lemieux does better than Barby. Not one. Apart from being a *****.

This times a hundred. I getting sad every time I see Ivan is dominating and read an article that Lemieux just scores on the pp and bites people.

 

[haseoke39]

This times a hundred. I getting sad every time I see Ivan is dominating and read an article that Lemieux just scores on the pp and bites people.

Especially frustrating because it was such an obvious pick.

 

[Paxon]

Murray won't draft him.

I'm still salty that we passed on Barbashev for Lemieux. I mean, I don't even know 1 thing Lemieux does better than Barby. Not one. Apart from being a *****.

Can't describe how disappointed I was with that. We were getting close to the end of the 1st with Barbashev, Kempe, Scherbak, Goldobin left on the board, then one by one they got selected, leaving me worried we'd get none of them. Then we end the day with Barbashev on the board. Then we don't pick him...

 

[sabrebuild]

I honestly would have hard time seeing a logical point to picking Lemieux over barb. Close in size, advantage to barb at basically all skills except fighting and arguably wrist shot. Seems like Russian bias to me.

 

[ZeroPT*]

Can't describe how disappointed I was with that. We were getting close to the end of the 1st with Barbashev, Kempe, Scherbak, Goldobin left on the board, then one by one they got selected, leaving me worried we'd get none of them. Then we end the day with Barbashev on the board. Then we don't pick him...

Like I legitimately wonder sometimes what the organization saw in Lemieux over Barbashev.

I would've been fine with Hawryluk or a guy like Kamenev or a goalie. Because those picks actually make some sense. But Lemieux? the hell does he do?

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

Like I legitimately wonder sometimes what the organization saw in Lemieux over Barbashev.

I would've been fine with Hawryluk or a guy like Kamenev or a goalie. Because those picks actually make some sense. But Lemieux? the hell does he do?

That guy who runs the "Sabres Prospects" site, Baker (?), was/is very high on Lemeiux, which at least gave me a modicum of relief after being disappointed with this pick. Not sure how great of a "scout" he is, but at least someone was excited about the pick!

 

[Paxon]

That guy who runs the "Sabres Prospects" site, Baker (?), was/is very high on Lemeiux, which at least gave me a modicum of relief after being disappointed with this pick. Not sure how great of a "scout" he is, but at least someone was excited about the pick!

Kris Baker. He used to write for the Sabres on HockeysFuture and still comes on the board now and then (user: Hobey Baker). He's definitely very good at what he does.

 

[sabrebuild]

I would definitely love to read him directly comparing the two players and explaining how Lemieux is a better prospect. He may like him in a vacuum but I would love to understand how he would put him ahead of barbashev.

 

[flashsabre]

I remember watching Day 2 of the Draft and Bob McKenzie started off saying that the Sabres were getting a lot of offers for pick #31 because teams wanted to move up to draft one player...Brendan Lemieux. You might not like the pick but the pros coveted Lemieux more.

Barbashev is a very good player but lets not sell Lemieux short. He plays hard, with passion, scores clutch goals and adds a level of grit this organization was needing.

 

[Sabre the Win]

Yeah Lemieux is Kaleta 2.0 with offensive upside. We could roll 4 lines with more players like Lamieux. I will wait to see both play in the NHL before judging.

 

[ZeroPT*]

I remember watching Day 2 of the Draft and Bob McKenzie started off saying that the Sabres were getting a lot of offers for pick #31 because teams wanted to move up to draft one player...Brendan Lemieux. You might not like the pick but the pros coveted Lemieux more.

Barbashev is a very good player but lets not sell Lemieux short. He plays hard, with passion, scores clutch goals and adds a level of grit this organization was needing.

Barbashev does all those things

 

[Jim Bob]

http://www.sabresprospects.com/2014/06/brendan-lemieux-goes-to-buffalo-at-31.html

Bakes after the pick:

Brendan Lemieux – LW, Barrie Colts (OHL), 6’0.25”, 206 lbs.

Son of former NHL pest Claude, Lemieux totes the same peskiness and clutch scoring ability that made his father one of the greatest playoff performers of the past 20 years. Scouts tracking Ekblad regularly noticed Lemieux making things happen from between the hashmarks. His powerful cuts and heavy wrist shot helped him score 27 times last season, and his disturbing presence near the crease drew his share of attention from the opposition. When push came to shove, Lemieux dropped the gloves three times, taking on guys who averaged 6-foot-4 and 216 lbs.

Lemieux has the wide body, cut frame and fearless attitude to compete in the NHL, and it could happen rather quickly with another big year in Barrie. He's your prototypical pest who I'd love to have on my team (and would hate to play against).

But, Bakes was high on Barbashev pre-draft.

From his draft preview:

http://www.sabresprospects.com/2014/06/buffalo-sabres-2014-draft-preview.html

So with the mention of trading back up, it's worth noting four candidates who the Sabres could consider if they're able to get back into the middle of the round.

Ivan Barbashev - C/LW, Moncton Wildcats (QMJHL)

The first overall selection in the 2012 CHL Import Draft, Barbashev has carved out a reputation over the past two seasons as a highly skilled, hard-nosed worker who gets the most out of his linemates. The well-rounded Russian is strong on his skates, using his body to compete in the high traffic areas and step in front of shots in the defensive zone. Aside from his obvious high-end talent that sees him zip crisp passes and convert with a quality shooting arsenal, I'm drawn to Barbashev's heads-up awareness in all situations.

Some teams like to limit the Russian influence in their dressing room, and it's worth noting that the Senators selected a total of zero Russian players in six drafts with Murray involved, but I have no reservations about adding his work ethic to the mix. Consistency will come, but Barbashev looks like he can do a little bit of everything. I think that in the right situation he'd be able to step into the NHL right away

He had Lemieux to the Sabres later in the 2nd in the preview:

Round 2, 39th overall

Brendan Lemieux – LW, Barrie Colts (OHL), 6’0.25”, 206 lbs.

Son of former NHL pest Claude, Lemieux totes the same peskiness and clutch scoring ability that made his father one of the greatest playoff performers of the past 20 years. Scouts tracking Ekblad regularly noticed Lemieux making things happen from between the hashmarks. His powerful cuts and heavy wrist shot helped him score 27 times last season, and his disturbing presence near the crease drew his share of attention from the opposition. When push came to shove, Lemieux dropped the gloves three times, taking on guys who averaged 6-foot-4 and 216 lbs.

Lemieux has the wide body, cut frame and fearless attitude to compete in the NHL, and it could happen rather quickly with another big year in Barrie. He's your prototypical "b******" who I'd love to have on my team (and would hate to play against).

He obviously had Barbashev ahead of Lemieux pre-draft, but did like Lemieux.

 

[haseoke39]

The only thing that grinds me in these conversations are the folks who argue from the perspective that Murray is a draft genius, based on being a AGM for organizations that drafted well in the past. We have no idea who pulled what strings to get what players in those organizations. We have no idea what role Murray played. The real judge of Murray started at the 2014 draft. We're in it now. We'll see what comes of it, but Murray doesn't have a benefit of the doubt from me any more than any other GM would.

 

[Jim Bob]

The thing that annoys me is people getting really upset about a draft that is a few months old.

5 years from now, it is highly possible that Lemieux is better than Barbashev or both are busts.

It would be the same as saying that Reinhart was the better choice than Bennett because of Bennett's injury.

It's waaaaaaaaay too early to judge Murray's drafting for the Sabres one way or the other.

 

[haseoke39]

The thing that annoys me is people getting really upset about a draft that is a few months old.

5 years from now, it is highly possible that Lemieux is better than Barbashev or both are busts.

It would be the same as saying that Reinhart was the better choice than Bennett because of Bennett's injury.

It's waaaaaaaaay too early to judge Murray's drafting for the Sabres one way or the other.

Who's getting really upset or passing final judgment? There'll be a day when both players are retired and we can do a final analysis, but everyone can still opine on the way there.

 

[Jim Bob]

Who's getting really upset or passing final judgment? There'll be a day when both players are retired and we can do a final analysis, but everyone can still opine on the way there.

Perhaps the feeling behind these posts didn't get properly reflected via the interwebs?

Murray won't draft him.

I'm still salty that we passed on Barbashev for Lemieux. I mean, I don't even know 1 thing Lemieux does better than Barby. Not one. Apart from being a *****.

This times a hundred. I getting sad every time I see Ivan is dominating and read an article that Lemieux just scores on the pp and bites people.

Especially frustrating because it was such an obvious pick.

 

[haseoke39]

Perhaps the feeling behind these posts didn't get properly reflected via the interwebs?

Having an opinion on the strength of a draft pick is fine at any stage, and worrying about who feels it too strongly or just strongly enough seems like a foolish thing to worry about.

I'm sure we'll all change our minds about who looks like the better pick three times before they're both established players, and that's fine. Scouting staffs do the same thing within a draft season.

 

[Jim Bob]

Having an opinion on the strength of a draft pick is fine at any stage, and worrying about who feels it too strongly or just strongly enough seems like a foolish thing to worry about.

I'm sure we'll all change our minds about who looks like the better pick three times before they're both established players, and that's fine. Scouting staffs do the same thing within a draft season.

Sorry, but it seems to be more than that when a poster is talking about how Murray won't take a guy this year because of a guy he passed on last year.

 

[sabrebuild]

Sorry, but it seems to be more than that when a poster is talking about how Murray won't take a guy this year because of a guy he passed on last year.

I can tell you directly I hold it against Murray. Especially considering the way they both have showed this season. I think his decision making was based either on a limited amount of viewings of barby or flawed thought about na v Russian players cuz barby is a better player across the board. However I also count lots of things in Murray's favor too. It's not black and white. He can make that crap call imo, while at the same time have made several good calls like the fasching trade imo.

 

[haseoke39]

I can tell you directly I hold it against Murray. Especially considering the way they both have showed this season. I think his decision making was based either on a limited amount of viewings of barby or flawed thought about na v Russian players cuz barby is a better player across the board. However I also count lots of things in Murray's favor too. It's not black and white. He can make that crap call imo, while at the same time have made several good calls like the fasching trade imo.

You know, honestly, that's fine. It's alright to think he's made mistakes at this stage, understanding that there's a bigger picture and we haven't seen much yet.

 

[flashsabre]

I can tell you directly I hold it against Murray. Especially considering the way they both have showed this season. I think his decision making was based either on a limited amount of viewings of barby or flawed thought about na v Russian players cuz barby is a better player across the board. However I also count lots of things in Murray's favor too. It's not black and white. He can make that crap call imo, while at the same time have made several good calls like the fasching trade imo.

"Barby is the better player across the board" is your opinion, not a fact. Could he turn out to be the better pro, sure he could but let's not appoint one as better until both have played the pro game.

I think the Sabres got a good one in Lemieux but would have been just as happy with Barbashev. Both project to have impacts at the NHL level, we will just have to wait to see how it all plays out.

I guess my point is that I can understand why you like Barbashev better but I don't like the idea being stated by some that this was a blown pick or that it was strictly made because of the Russian factor. It insults what Lemieux brings to the table as a prospect.

 

[1972]

If Lemieux plays 400 games on our third line and chips in 10-15 goals per season while being tough to play against that is a terrific pick.

 

[sabrebuild]

"Barby is the better player across the board" is your opinion, not a fact. Could he turn out to be the better pro, sure he could but let's not appoint one as better until both have played the pro game.

I think the Sabres got a good one in Lemieux but would have been just as happy with Barbashev. Both project to have impacts at the NHL level, we will just have to wait to see how it all plays out.

I guess my point is that I can understand why you like Barbashev better but I don't like the idea being stated by some that this was a blown pick or that it was strictly made because of the Russian factor. It insults what Lemieux brings to the table as a prospect.

I'm well aware it is my opinion. And I am very comfortable insulting Lemieux and his game in comparison to Barby. I don't think Lemieux is useless. But go watch ten each of their games last year and tell me what Lemieux does better than Barby. Like I said in a vacuum Lemieux is a fine prospect to take in the second round. When picked over Ivan based on the evidence available it's very hard to understand.

 

[Jim Bob]

I'm well aware it is my opinion. And I am very comfortable insulting Lemieux and his game in comparison to Barby. I don't think Lemieux is useless. But go watch ten each of their games last year and tell me what Lemieux does better than Barby. Like I said in a vacuum Lemieux is a fine prospect to take in the second round. When picked over Ivan based on the evidence available it's very hard to understand.

You don't draft guys based on what they did prior to being drafted.

You draft a guy based off a projection of where you think they will be 4, 5, and 6+ years down the road.

So, what they looked like last year and this year is pretty irrelevant at this point.

In 2009 & 2010, Vancouver wasn't kicking themselves for taking Hodgson at 10 over Erik Karlsson.

Today on the other hand....