Confirmed with Link: Legwand to Wings for Eaves, Jarnkrok and a cond. 3rd Part II

[Winger98]

Continued from the first one.

Click to read more...

 

[Vladdy84]

If Glendenning is on the 4th line to start next seasons. It's a MASSIVE failure of assessing talent and asset management by Holland and Babcock.

 

[Mantha Poodoo]

Kenny's getting defensive about Jarnkrok on the radio. Says they saw Calle as a bottom 6 center. Calling the media out. Had a hard time seeing Jarnkrok getting into the lineup.

Okay, let's say that Holland and crew turn out to be right and Jarnkrok is bottom 6 (which is essentially useless to us in our overload) at best.

Is 2nd/3rd + bottom 6 prospect for a top 6 2 way center rental (with decent re-sign chance) and a cap dump a bad deal? Honestly, compared to the price of centers in the past few deadlines I'd say that would turn out to be a good deal.

On the other hand, if Jarnkrok himself is top 6... well, this ultimately comes down to the org's talent assessment and a matter of time.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

Kenny's getting defensive about Jarnkrok on the radio. Says they saw Calle as a bottom 6 center. Calling the media out. Had a hard time seeing Jarnkrok getting into the lineup. Mentioned that they like Luke in the 4 spot. And Joker has more years left on his deal.

Did he really say that? I'm surprised. Although I might have to defer to them, since Holland has been scouting players since before I was born...

 

[Marky9er]

If Glendenning is on the 4th line to start next seasons. It's a MASSIVE failure of assessing talent and asset management by Holland and Babcock.

What if Helm is on the fourth line, and Zetterberg and Datsyuk are both on the first?

 

[Vladdy84]

LeBrun just compared Tats to a young Marian Gaborik. Loves Nyquist and Tatar.

 

[Laser Rayzor]

So assuming KH re-signs Legwand (which seems likely considering his comments about not wanting a rental) they'll probably lose one of Ferraro/Callahan/Alfie and Jurco for sure won't be up full time next season.

This deal just keeps getting better and better, if this is the case the only upside is that Clears is guaranteed gone next season.

 

[Mantha Poodoo]

Did he really say that? I'm surprised. Although I might have to defer to them, since Holland has been scouting players since before I was born...

If that's the case, and if he turns out to be right, this deal looks a lot better.

 

[SirKillalot]

I don't mind us getting Legwand. It's giving up Jarnkrok that is the problem. Maybe Nashville asked for a center? Otherwise we should have given a winger. Pulkkinen or some other guy from the Grand Rapids Griffins.

People talking about him not having the chance with the team next year? Seriously? Jarnkrok has put up around the same amount of points as Sheahan did in the AHL last year in 20 less games.

It isn't a problem to try and fit him in. The problem is the management's over-use of veteran players who doesn't score enough points. At this rate we're turning into the Nashville Predators. Just without the same quality on defense and with a better top six forwards when healthy.

 

[Vladdy84]

What if Helm is on the fourth line, and Zetterberg and Datsyuk are both on the first?

Dats/Z
Legwand or Weiss
Sheahan
Helm

4 Centers.

 

[Flowah]

That is *hilarious* about seeing Jarnkrok as a bottom6 center. That's never been the assessment of the scouts and he's done nothing but impress our AHL coach and he started to pour it on in the scoring department as well.

And even if he *was* a bottom six center, putting Andersson and Glendening above him? I like both players, but they have serious flaws. Andersson is slower than Homer when he's sleeping. Glendening has stone hands and has shown no signs of any skillset above that of a 4th line grinder.

Really think Jarnkrok wouldn't be better than those two guys? It's not like he's a sieve defensively where he would be a liability down there. If anything, the people who have watched and coached him do nothing but talk about what a responsible player he is.

This is garbage. I thought I was mad before, but Holland's just lying now and that just pisses me off even more.

 

[crashman]

I've been reading a lot of posts suggesting that this trade will only be worth it if we re-sign Legwand. Well...when healthy, that leaves us with:

Datsyuk
Zetterberg
Weiss
Helm
Sheahan
Andersson

AND Legwand?

Now, I don't see getting rid of Andersson as a problem, but if the trend continues, he may just be waived. But regardless, that's a stupid amount of quality centers (assuming Weiss gets it together). D & Z will retire Red Wings, Weiss is obviously untradeable ATM, and I don't see Holland wanting to lose Helm or Sheahan.

So really, how can Legwand be considered anything but a rental? This trade boggles my mind. Would Holland really give up a 3rd rounder (possible 2nd) and Jarnkrok for 20 games of a veteran UFA and a very uphill battle to make any type of cup run?

Holland has been such a tight-wad with his assets, then he makes a move like this. It's ****in' stupid...

Edit: I forgot about Glendening. He's an pending RFA, so he doesn't really pose a problem, but he might also be lost for nothing.

 

[Flowah]

Dats/Z
Legwand or Weiss
Sheahan
Helm

4 Centers.

Which just goes back to what you said about Luke being #4 being a serious mismanagement of talent.

Even if we don't sign Legwand in the offseason, and even if we put Z on the wing, we have more than enough centers to keep Luke out of the lineup.

Why the *hell* would he ever be there barring injury? Glendening is a serious downgrade from all those centers. Obvious downgrade from Z/Dats/Legwand. Sheahan and Helm? Perhaps the gap isn't as big, but it's still pretty damn big.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

That is *hilarious* about seeing Jarnkrok as a bottom6 center. That's never been the assessment of the scouts and he's done nothing but impress our AHL coach and he started to pour it on in the scoring department as well.

And even if he *was* a bottom six center, putting Andersson and Glendening above him? I like both players, but they have serious flaws. Andersson is slower than Homer when he's sleeping. Glendening has stone hands and has shown no signs of any skillset above that of a 4th line grinder.

Really think Jarnkrok wouldn't be better than those two guys? It's not like he's a sieve defensively where he would be a liability down there. If anything, the people who have watched and coached him do nothing but talk about what a responsible player he is.

This is garbage. I thought I was mad before, but Holland's just lying now and that just pisses me off even more.

I'm not sure why your conclusion is that Holland is lying. This explains why they traded him the way they did. If they had valued him higher, it would have been a different situation.

Now, I mean, they can still be WRONG about Jarnkrok. But I think it's out of line to say that Holland is just lying. He at least believes that Jarnkrok doesn't have a lot of upside, I think.

 

[Heaton]

Which just goes back to what you said about Luke being #4 being a serious mismanagement of talent.

Even if we don't sign Legwand in the offseason, and even if we put Z on the wing, we have more than enough centers to keep Luke out of the lineup.

Why the *hell* would he ever be there barring injury? Glendening is a serious downgrade from all those centers. Obvious downgrade from Z/Dats/Legwand. Sheahan and Helm? Perhaps the gap isn't as big, but it's still pretty damn big.

Didn't Babcock say that Glendenning will be converted to wing if all centers were available anyway? As much of an overpayment as this is, we don't have a lot of room for Jarnkrok in the next few years. Z, Datsyuk, Weiss, Helm, Sheahan, Andersson etc... Some of these guys will have to be converted to wings.

 

[Winger98]

Dats/Z
Legwand or Weiss
Sheahan
Helm

4 Centers.

that's a nice group of centers. I've wanted to see a deeper group of centers, talked about going after Stastny in the summer, to roll three scoring lines and a grind/energy line, and that's a group we could do it with.

 

[Anchor Town*]

I've been reading a lot of posts suggesting that this trade will only be worth it if we re-sign Legwand. Well...when healthy, that leaves us with:

Datsyuk
Zetterberg
Weiss
Helm
Sheahan
Andersson

AND Legwand?

Now, I don't see getting rid of Andersson as a problem, but if the trend continues, he may just be waived. But regardless, that's a stupid amount of quality centers (assuming Weiss gets it together). D & Z will retire Red Wings, Weiss is obviously untradeable, and I don't see Holland wanting to lose Helm or Sheahan.

So really, how can Legwand be considered anything but a rental? This trade boggles my mind. Would Holland really give up a 3rd rounder and Jarnkrok for 20 games of a veteran UFA and a very uphill battle to make any type of cup run?

Holland has been such a tight-wad with his assets, then he makes a move like this. It's ****in' stupid...

Edit: I forgot about Glendening. He's an pending RFA, so he doesn't really pose a problem, but he might also be lost for nothing.

Zetterberg shouldn't be playing center anymore neither should Helm. Andersson is as useless at center as he would be at wing so really we have

Datsyuk
Weiss
Legwand
Sheahan

With guys able to slide in if injuries occur

 

[Konnan511]

It's easier to go from center to wing than the other way around. Having too many centers isn't a bad thing, having too many wingers is. Z or D can both play wing. Weiss has played wing and so has Helm. Sheahan has played wing as well. Legwand has played wing as well. The too many centers argument is mute.

 

[crashman]

Zetterberg shouldn't be playing center anymore neither should Helm. Andersson is as useless at center as he would be at wing so really we have

Datsyuk
Weiss
Legwand
Sheahan

With guys able to slide in if injuries occur

No more Helm then? He's a center, a very good bottom 6 center.

Personally, I think Datsyuk and Zetterberg should both be playing center, but that's just me. The Wings are a better team when they're separated, in recent years.

 

[Flowah]

I'm not sure why your conclusion is that Holland is lying. This explains why they traded him the way they did. If they had valued him higher, it would have been a different situation.

Now, I mean, they can still be WRONG about Jarnkrok. But I think it's out of line to say that Holland is just lying. He at least believes that Jarnkrok doesn't have a lot of upside, I think.

Sure, if you make stuff up after the fact, a lot of things make sense. We've gone from "He was gonna bolt to Sweden" to "He was getting antsy even if he didn't actually say he was going to go to Sweden" to "We just didn't see him as top6 material." When the story keeps changing, you get pretty suspicious.

Are we just supposed to ignore how much our scouts raved about this guy? The praise Blashill was putting on him? How Fischer even put the guy's abilities above Mantha (who is going to be the second coming of Jesus)? Holland seems to be pretty alone in his assessment of Jarnkrok as a bottom6 center only.

But no, the reason I think he's lying is because even if he were to have actually believed that Jarnkrok would never amount to anything above a 3C, he would still be a better option than Emmerton, Andersson, and Glendening. So why not waive those guys, trade those guys, put Jarnkrok on 4C? But instead we called up Emmerton? We will put slow as hell Andersson on the wing or have him enter the first line for a couple games?

That's why. Even taking him at his word, his actions do not make sense. And frankly, no, I don't take him at his word. He spins a lot of ******** and makes a lot of questionable decisions. The fact that the scouting reports on Jarnkrok's time in GR hadn't changed at all is particularly telling to me.

 

[doublejack]

How far has Holland descended in light of this latest debacle? He's managed to make Matt Millen look like a competent GM. Yeah, it's that bad.

I simply cannot believe he's portraying what many considered to be our #1 prospect entering the season as a "bottom six" forward. Seriously, Kenny. There's this thing called the internet now. The fans have access to as much prospect information as you do.... maybe even more, apparently.

This is Oates for Federko all over again.

Now I can't wait to hear the spin when the Wings miss the playoffs, despite this giveaway.

 

[stu the grim reaper]

how big is jarnkrok?

 

[PullHard]

So what do we look like next year, assuming we bring back Legwand and Alfie, and all RFAs (except for Emmerton)?

Zetterberg - Datsyuk - Franzen
Nyquist - Legwand - Alfredsson
Tatar - Sheahan - Weiss
Miller - Helm - Abdelkader
extra: Andersson, Glendening, Ferraro, Callahan

Am I forgetting anyone there?

Can we assume that Samuelsson, Bertuzzi, and Cleary are all gone for good, and that Tootoo will be complianced?

 

[Shoalzie]

I will say this about trading Jankrok...they did trade from a position of strength. The prospect pool is as deep as its been in I don't know how long. You trade one quality prospect but you still have a deep pool.

They don't part with a 1st rounder to get a top 6 center. With Hank out of the lineup, Legwand will center the first line while Pavel is out and probably center the second line when Pavel's back.

I don't get the immediate urge to re-sign him without seeing him in uniform for a single game if not for the fact you don't want Jarnkrok traded for a rental. The team only really needs him for this year...you need him next year only if Zetterberg's back is still not healthy.

I think Hank is probably going to move to the wing to protect his back for the rest of his career. Perhaps that leaves a center spot available but what about Weiss or Helm or Andersson or Sheahan?

 

[Winger98]

Didn't Babcock say that Glendenning will be converted to wing if all centers were available anyway? As much of an overpayment as this is, we don't have a lot of room for Jarnkrok in the next few years. Z, Datsyuk, Weiss, Helm, Sheahan, Andersson etc... Some of these guys will have to be converted to wings.

And we're not exactly shallow on the wing, either. Part of the problem of stockpiling too many kids, or maybe just having too many kids meet expectations, is that we may have to sell low on some to get anything for them.