Confirmed with Link: Legwand to Wings for Eaves, Jarnkrok and a cond. 3rd Part II

[ArGarBarGar]

Sure, if you make stuff up after the fact, a lot of things make sense. We've gone from "He was gonna bolt to Sweden" to "He was getting antsy even if he didn't actually say he was going to go to Sweden" to "We just didn't see him as top6 material." When the story keeps changing, you get pretty suspicious.

Not sure why you attribute all those statements to Holland when Holland only made the most recent one (according to what a poster here said which hasn't been substantiated).

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

Sure, if you make stuff up after the fact, a lot of things make sense. We've gone from "He was gonna bolt to Sweden" to "He was getting antsy even if he didn't actually say he was going to go to Sweden" to "We just didn't see him as top6 material." When the story keeps changing, you get pretty suspicious.

Are we just supposed to ignore how much our scouts raved about this guy? The praise Blashill was putting on him? How Fischer even put the guy's abilities above Mantha (who is going to be the second coming of Jesus)? Holland seems to be pretty alone in his assessment of Jarnkrok as a bottom6 center only.

But no, the reason I think he's lying is because even if he were to have actually believed that Jarnkrok would never amount to anything above a 3C, he would still be a better option than Emmerton, Andersson, and Glendening. So why not waive those guys, trade those guys, put Jarnkrok on 4C? But instead we called up Emmerton? We will put slow as hell Andersson on the wing or have him enter the first line for a couple games?

That's why. Even taking him at his word, his actions do not make sense. And frankly, no, I don't take him at his word. He spins a lot of ******** and makes a lot of questionable decisions. The fact that the scouting reports on Jarnkrok's time in GR hadn't changed at all is particularly telling to me.

To be fair, Holland never said the Sweden thing. We can't pin that on him. But it's completely possible that 1. he WAS getting antsy and 2. they didn't see him as a high end center anymore.

But also, there's no disputing Jarnkrok's offensive talent. I think maybe what Holland was saying is that they don't think he's going to be that effective at the NHL level. Maybe for size reasons, I don't know. It could be that they came to view him as more of a Jiri Hudler type player. and, hey, maybe this will play out similar to that.

As for that last bit, it's easy: it's because they don't think Jarnkrok has earned a spot. Babcock would never stand for it and it would send a weird message to the players. It would basically tell them that if they whine enough, they can get onto the team. Besides, it's not like Jarnkrok has any sandpaper to his game, and that's what the Wings want on their 4th line.

 

[Vladdy84]

Didn't Babcock say that Glendenning will be converted to wing if all centers were available anyway? As much of an overpayment as this is, we don't have a lot of room for Jarnkrok in the next few years. Z, Datsyuk, Weiss, Helm, Sheahan, Andersson etc... Some of these guys will have to be converted to wings.

The Wings have their two 4th line wingers for next year. Miller and Gator. Also have Callahan and Ferraro.

This is Babcock. Playing his boy over more talented players.

 

[doublejack]

I will say this about trading Jankrok...they did trade from a position of strength. The prospect pool is as deep as its been in I don't know how long. You trade one quality prospect but you still have a deep pool.

They don't part with a 1st rounder to get a top 6 center. With Hank out of the lineup, Legwand will center the first line while Pavel is out and probably center the second line when Pavel's back.

I don't get the immediate urge to re-sign him without seeing him in uniform for a single game if not for the fact you don't want Jarnkrok traded for a rental. The team only really needs him for this year...you need him next year only if Zetterberg's back is still not healthy.

I think Hank is probably going to move to the wing to protect his back for the rest of his career. Perhaps that leaves a center spot available but what about Weiss or Helm or Andersson or Sheahan?

Well, you might see Legwand as a need for next season if you accept that Weiss is an unmitigated disaster... as every single Holland signing has been for the past few seasons, save for Dekeyser which was an absolute no-brainer.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

Not sure why you attribute all those statements to Holland when Holland only made the most recent one (according to what a poster here said which hasn't been substantiated).

Holland made the antsy comment as well, I believe. It's from a reporter's twitter, and the guy was at the press scrum with Holland.

 

[PullHard]

Well, you might see Legwand as a need for next season if you accept that Weiss is an unmitigated disaster... as every single Holland signing has been for the past few seasons, save for Dekeyser which was an absolute no-brainer.

Alfredsson signing was good as well, but your point stands.

 

[Flowah]

how big is jarnkrok?

Latest RWC stat had him at 6'0 and 188. Blashill said he could use another 10 pounds.

 

[Heaton]

The Wings have their two 4th line wingers for next year. Miller and Gator. Also have Callahan and Ferraro.

This is Babcock. Playing his boy over more talented players.

All of those players with the exception of possibly Abdelkader are interchangeable. I would be absolutely shocked if Ferraro or Callahan come up and play 4th line minutes and blow everybody away. They might end up being better than Glendenning, but not by much and the fact of the matter is I'd rather have the guys the coach will play than the guys who are supposedly a little better but might not play as much.

 

[Anchor Town*]

Latest RWC stat had him at 6'0 and 188. Blashill said he could use another 10 pounds.

Yeah he's nowhere near 188, that's almost laughable

 

[Flowah]

Not sure why you attribute all those statements to Holland when Holland only made the most recent one (according to what a poster here said which hasn't been substantiated).

He made at least 2 of them.

And I was more talking about the people here who will latch on to any reason, no matter how speculative, to be able to justify a Holland decision. If one doesn't work or runs out of steam, just move on to the next one! And so on and so on!

How are people just all of a sudden accepting what Holland says about the guy not being top6 material? This is the very first time we've ever had any inkling of that from all the news that comes out of GR. But now we're just supposed to accept it?

 

[bababooeyII]

I find it funny that Holland apologists on various sites now take to trashing what was once considered one of their top 3 prospects. So what if he wanted to go to Sweden? He gets paid more money and likes being closer to home. he came here for 1 year and saw there was the usual logjam of veterans and he probably saw not a lot of daylight. I have no problem trading prospects either but on a day when prices were cheap, the Wings paid the highest cost and it was strictly due to panic, there is no other excuse for it. Oh, and to all of those who think we will re-sign Legwand, what does that mean for Weiss, Sheahan, Helm even Glendening who everyone seems to love as well. Ken Holland has no plan, he's paranoid to miss the playoffs so he'll sacrifice whatever he needs to in order to squeak into the playoffs and get manhandled by Pitt or Boston among others.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Holland made the antsy comment as well, I believe. It's from a reporter's twitter, and the guy was at the press scrum with Holland.

Alright, but those two statements don't necessarily contradict each other, so I don't see the problem.

If you had Holland saying all of those things, then yeah you might attribute it to him backtracking. But I don't see how that is the case. He can be wrong without being a liar.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

Alright, but those two statements don't necessarily contradict each other, so I don't see the problem.

If you had Holland saying all of those things, then yeah you might attribute it to him backtracking. But I don't see how that is the case. He can be wrong without being a liar.

I think you've misunderstood me. I'm just saying that Holland indeed said that. I thought you were questioning that he did say it at all.

He can definitely be wrong.

 

[Flowah]

I find it funny that Holland apologists on various sites now take to trashing what was once considered one of their top 3 prospects. So what if he wanted to go to Sweden?

We've moved on from Sweden. That is no longer the party line.

Now it's "He wasn't going to be a top6 center. Ignore all scouting reports and comments by his coaching staff that suggest otherwise."

Keep up, bro.

 

[Flowah]

Alright, but those two statements don't necessarily contradict each other, so I don't see the problem.

If you had Holland saying all of those things, then yeah you might attribute it to him backtracking. But I don't see how that is the case. He can be wrong without being a liar.

At a certain point, you have to ask whether a guy is just that stupid or he's just lying to make himself look less bad.

I guess I'm okay with either scenario. You're right, maybe Holland's not lying. Maybe he's just that dumb. Either way, it speaks to his being washed up as a GM. Time for some new blood.

 

[Konnan511]

Legwand is a good add to this club. Hook would have stayed in GR for the remainder of this season and may have had a shot at the big club next season. I'm bummed we lost Hook, he's looking more and more like the player we thought he was going to be. But we got a top six two way forward who shows up huge in the playoffs for a prospect who may never be able to cut it in the NHL (I think he will and I think he is going to be a very good 1st/2nd tweener).

Hook has stated those rumors of him going to Sweden were false and Holland saying Hook isn't a potential top six player is asinine.

 

[Winger98]

I don't see how saying Jarnkrok is a bottom6 center is radically different from saying he tops out as a 50-60point #2 - which is where he seemed to have been most often tabbed around here. A bit harsher, yeah, but not viciously so.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

He made at least 2 of them.

And I was more talking about the people here who will latch on to any reason, no matter how speculative, to be able to justify a Holland decision. If one doesn't work or runs out of steam, just move on to the next one! And so on and so on!

How are people just all of a sudden accepting what Holland says about the guy not being top6 material? This is the very first time we've ever had any inkling of that from all the news that comes out of GR. But now we're just supposed to accept it?

How many people are you even referring to? The majority of the board is against the deal.

Also, most people tend to take statements made at face value before more information comes out. Everyone assumed the initial report about Jankrok being the prospect in the deal was true despite it not being confirmed until later. Does that make those people Holland bashers? No, it makes them people going off whatever limited information they have to make a guess about a situation. Not worth giving them grief over it.

 

[Reality Check]

At a certain point, you have to ask whether a guy is just that stupid or he's just lying to make himself look less bad.

I guess I'm okay with either scenario. You're right, maybe Holland's not lying. Maybe he's just that dumb. Either way, it speaks to his being washed up as a GM. Time for some new blood.

Fine. Fire Holland.

Who exactly do you trust to not make things worse without naming Jim Nill or Steve Yzerman?

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

We've moved on from Sweden. That is no longer the party line.

Now it's "He wasn't going to be a top6 center. Ignore all scouting reports and comments by his coaching staff that suggest otherwise."

Keep up, bro.

If Holland says that's why he traded Jarnkrok, I believe him. What would you have us do, question the truth of everything Holland says because he could be lying? Maybe Holland and the scouts see something that we didn't. It's completely possible to me. It wouldn't be the first time we've been wrong about a prospect.

I think what your argument ignores is that those prospect projections get less and less likely each season. Jarnkrok had a mountain of time to develop and he still wasn't ready. Even if he was, it's possible that his upside was not as rosy as originally projected. I don't know. All I know is it's completely possible that Holland is both right and telling the truth, and you seem to think he's lying because you think those scouts are the end-all authority on talent.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not sure that Holland is RIGHT on this one. But it's absolutely ridiculous to say that he's lying about it.

 

[doublejack]

I don't see how saying Jarnkrok is a bottom6 center is radically different from saying he tops out as a 50-60point #2 - which is where he seemed to have been most often tabbed around here. A bit harsher, yeah, but not viciously so.

I'm sorry, but there is a pretty major difference between a 2nd line center and a bottom six one. The former can be expected to get PP time and put up some points (maybe 50 or 60 a season), while the latter is more of a grinder & checker that is likely to see PK time and not PP time, and top out around 30-40 points a season in their career.

Sometimes, especially here when we had bunches of really good centers, a player like Datsyuk or Flip would start in the bottom six and move up. That's not the norm, though, and it's clear from Holland's spin job that he's pegging Jarnkrok as someone who isn't capable of or projected to break into that scoring center role. It's a total crock.

Alfredsson signing was good as well, but your point stands.

You're correct. So 2 good signings, both of which were pretty obvious based on the name and/or hype alone.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

I don't see how saying Jarnkrok is a bottom6 center is radically different from saying he tops out as a 50-60point #2 - which is where he seemed to have been most often tabbed around here. A bit harsher, yeah, but not viciously so.

That's exactly what I was thinking. I think people are upset because Jarnkrok is supposed to be very skilled, and they somehow equate very skilled with very good at the NHL level. But the truth is, there are plenty of very skilled guys who can't make it happen on regular scoring lines.

But you're completely right. We had already admitted that he was likely a second line guy. The Wings concluding that he was more of a 3rd line guy (or perhaps more of a tweener) is not a stretch by any means. It just reflects them not being as high on him as they once were.

 

[mindfly]

Anyone know why there wasn't any single 2014 1st round pick traded yesterday? Just 2 years ago, Paul ****ing Gaustad was traded for a 1st rounder in the same year....

 

[Winger98]

Legwand is a good add to this club. Hook would have stayed in GR for the remainder of this season and may have had a shot at the big club next season. I'm bummed we lost Hook, he's looking more and more like the player we thought he was going to be. But we got a top six two way forward who shows up huge in the playoffs for a prospect who may never be able to cut it in the NHL (I think he will and I think he is going to be a very good 1st/2nd tweener).

Hook has stated those rumors of him going to Sweden were false and Holland saying Hook isn't a potential top six player is asinine.

If he came out and said it was true, his chances in Nashville would probably dwindle pretty quick. I don't think it does Jarnkrok, Holland, or anyone any good to confirm that sort of stuff to the press unless Jarnkrok was definitely walking. I think it's likely that Jarnkrok has explored the possibility, but wasn't to the point of definitely packing up and walking.

At the same time, we were looking at having Z, D, Weiss, Helm, and Sheahan ahead of Jarnkrok next season, and arguably the season afterwards. So it would be difficult to promise him a spot in the near future. If he walks, his value plummets, and I find it unlikely he ever comes back.

While we can talk keeping the guy's rights and what not, part of the reason he was dealt was likely just making sure we got something for him rather than having him ditch to Sweden for nothing, but to also preserve the kid's NHL career and putting him in a spot for a promotion that may just not be possible in Detroit in the near future.

 

[sepster]

How far has Holland descended in light of this latest debacle? He's managed to make Matt Millen look like a competent GM. Yeah, it's that bad.

Slow your roll, jack. Nothing is THAT bad.