Confirmed with Link: Legwand to Wings for Eaves, Jarnkrok and a cond. 3rd Part II

[Vladdy84]

Anyone know why there wasn't any single 2014 1st round pick traded yesterday? Just 2 years ago, Paul ****ing Gaustad was traded for a 1st rounder in the same year....

Because the 2014 draft is stacked with high-end talent?

Glendenning is gonna become another Cleary, Bert etc. In the way that the "tie" will go to the veteran. Even though there is no tie. More players will rot in the AHL.

 

[Big Poppa Puck]

As much as I hate seeing Jarnkrok go, I'm still willing to give Holland the benefit of the doubt here.

Because what prospect has he ever traded that we deeply regret losing? Fleischmann? Matthias? Even those two, while nice players, are nothing to get excited about.

 

[Reality Check]

Slow your roll, jack. Nothing is THAT bad.

Folks here have really gone off the rails the past 24 hours

 

[PullHard]

Folks here have really gone off the rails the past 24 hours

Forgive us for caring about more than one injury riddled season.

 

[Flowah]

If Holland says that's why he traded Jarnkrok, I believe him. What would you have us do, question the truth of everything Holland says because he could be lying? Maybe Holland and the scouts see something that we didn't. It's completely possible to me. It wouldn't be the first time we've been wrong about a prospect.

I think what your argument ignores is that those prospect projections get less and less likely each season. Jarnkrok had a mountain of time to develop and he still wasn't ready. Even if he was, it's possible that his upside was not as rosy as originally projected. I don't know. All I know is it's completely possible that Holland is both right and telling the truth, and you seem to think he's lying because you think those scouts are the end-all authority on talent.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not sure that Holland is RIGHT on this one. But it's absolutely ridiculous to say that he's lying about it.

I think when this is the FIRST time we've EVER heard ANY doubts from ANYONE in the organization about Jarnkrok, you should be skeptical.

I think that when he goes against everything everyone else has ever said about Jarnkrok in their evaluation of his talent, ceiling, ability, you should be skeptical.

I think Jarnkrok was developing exactly as most people expected. Of course, it's his first year in the North American style, we knew he was going to have some adjustment. They always do. We've seen it before in our prospects. And he did. But even when he wasn't lighting up the score sheet, nothing but praise for his hard work and defensive responsibility and how he does all the right things and it's just a matter of time until things start going right for him.

Which is... exactly what happened. He's been tearing it up for a while now, far too long and consistently for it to just write it off as a hot streak.

Honestly, the "possibility" that he's both right and not lying is pretty slim. Everything has a possibility. There's a possibility that I will fall through the floor in the next second. There's a possibility that gravity stops working tomorrow. These are all possibilities. How likely are those possibilities? It's far more likely that he's lying/incompetent than it is that he's right/telling the truth.

I've heard the **** that spews from his mouth. "Like our team. Kids aren't the answer. Man's league. No rentals. Helm is like a trade deadline acquisition." Add that crap to the decisions he's made over the past 4-5 years and I just stop giving him the huge benefit of the doubt some of you seem to keep affording him.

 

[Vladdy84]

The problem is the coach prefers players like Glendenning and Jokiam Slokum. And the GM felt the Wings were set at center for the foreseeable future and he could afford to take a chance with trading Calle in order to increase the odds of making the playoffs.

 

[Winger98]

I'm sorry, but there is a pretty major difference between a 2nd line center and a bottom six one. The former can be expected to get PP time and put up some points (maybe 50 or 60 a season), while the latter is more of a grinder & checker that is likely to see PK time and not PP time, and top out around 30-40 points a season in their career.

Sometimes, especially here when we had bunches of really good centers, a player like Datsyuk or Flip would start in the bottom six and move up. That's not the norm, though, and it's clear from Holland's spin job that he's pegging Jarnkrok as someone who isn't capable of or projected to break into that scoring center role. It's a total crock.

Igor Larionov says hi.

Hasn't been the norm? Maybe the past four years or so, as we've battled a weak farm system, injuries, and retirement, but the bulk of this organization's success over the past 20 years has come with quality third line centers who can put up some points. And having a productive third line is something we still try to build.

Holland said they saw him as a bottom6 center. I don't think anyone expects Jarnkrok to be a #1. So it's either #2 or lower. I don't see how Holland's comment is as harsh as you're making it out to be.

 

[dtones520]

The simple fact of the matter is that the organization believed that Sheahan was their young, second line center of the future. He played his way into that role over the likes of Jarnkrok who was "more talented", according to Jiri Fischer, which speaks to Jarnkroks work ethic. The fact ther was rumors of him wanting to bolt if he wasn't guaranteed an NHL spot further speak to that work ethic and being a team guy. So if Sheahan and Zetterberg are our top 2 centers for the next 5 seasons, which is conceivable, where does that put Jarnkrok? Either a 3rd/4th line center or on a wing and we have plenty of young Wingers that are just as good or better than him.

Seriously, we have had Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Weiss, Helm, Sheahan, Andersson, Emmerton and Glendening all play significant minutes for us at center this year. 8 guys that our organization thought were more NHL ready than Jarnkrok and all but Emmerton are likely to be here long term. The organization is still trying to push for a playoff spot, they realistically can still make the playoffs and Jarnkrok wasn't going to help them do that this year, and likely next year or the following. So he was considered expendable to get a guy in Legwand that can help us get in now and, if resigned, the next 2-3 seasons.

Keep in mind, Datsyuk is under contract for 2 more years. Zetterberg, Franzen and Kronwall aren't getting any younger, our best chance to win a cup over the next half decade is in this 2-3 year window before we have to start retooling again. Jarnkrok does very little to improve those chances of winning the cup in that time frame. If we resign Legwand for 2-3 years, he does improve those chances. After those 2-3 years we probably have a center in the farm that is just as capable as Jarnkrok was ready to come up.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Does anyone even have a specific quote instead of what someone said they heard regarding Jarnkrok being a bottom sixer?

People get mad when people assume the "Jarnkrok leaving for Sweden" story from Twitter is true, but choose to ignore context when hearing the secondhand account of something Holland said.

 

[Vladdy84]

Does anyone even have a specific quote instead of what someone said they heard regarding Jarnkrok being a bottom sixer?

People get mad when people assume the "Jarnkrok leaving for Sweden" story from Twitter is true, but choose to ignore context when hearing the secondhand account of something Holland said.

He said it multiple times during an interview with Matt Dery on 105.1 Detroit ESPN Radio.

 

[PullHard]

Igor Larionov says hi.

Hasn't been the norm? Maybe the past four years or so, as we've battled a weak farm system, injuries, and retirement, but the bulk of this organization's success over the past 20 years has come with quality third line centers who can put up some points. And having a productive third line is something we still try to build.

Holland said they saw him as a bottom6 center. I don't think anyone expects Jarnkrok to be a #1. So it's either #2 or lower. I don't see how Holland's comment is as harsh as you're making it out to be.

I think what is so harsh about it, is that the statement says he doesn't expect him to be better than guys like Andersson, Glendening, and Helm, who aren't exactly setting the world on fire, and are likely the guys who will be on 3rd and 4th lines for next several years, as well as Sheahan, who I think we all thought was Jarnkrok's main competition.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

He said it multiple times during an interview with Matt Dery on 105.1 Detroit ESPN Radio.

Full quote? Context?

 

[dtones520]

As much as I hate seeing Jarnkrok go, I'm still willing to give Holland the benefit of the doubt here.

Because what prospect has he ever traded that we deeply regret losing? Fleischmann? Matthias? Even those two, while nice players, are nothing to get excited about.

And remember how up in arms people were about trading those guys at the time, they all really panned out into stud NHLers. And I'd equate their skill levels at the time about equal with Jarnkrok now.

 

[mindfly]

Because the 2014 draft is stacked with high-end talent?

Glendenning is gonna become another Cleary, Bert etc. In the way that the "tie" will go to the veteran. Even though there is no tie. More players will rot in the AHL.

Uhm, I heard they said 2014 is really weak, the 2015 is something special though.

 

[newfy]

I cant believe people are this upset lol, its actually kind of funny. At 21, after playing against men for a while, Jarnkrok played great AHL for about 3 weeks. And then hes getting antsy about wanting to get called up? You cant just play three good weeks in NA and get called up.

Its so different from Tatar playing 3 years and getting antsy, which was deserved because he was playing well. And still in his three week hot streak Jarnkrok has what? 3 goals? Hes racking up assists. I would argue that Pulkkinen was driving that hot streak more than anything.

It would be nice to have been able to keep him and see if this hot streak keeps going, but who wants a guy thats demanding call ups after how he played most of this season? He wasnt going to be the answer at number 1 center, and its looking like Sheahan and Helm will be able to cover the 2 and 3 spot for a while.

And like I said before, Legwand isnt chopped liver. He is the type of depth center you win in the playoffs with and I could see Sheahan ending up being a very similar player. Big, strong, 50 point center that can shut down guys defensively

 

[PullHard]

The "thing" to say this deadline is 2014 is a weak draft class and 2015 is a stacked draft class it seems.

Most of the trades with 3rd + 5th had the 3rd rounders in 2015 IIRC. GMs are lining up for picks in that class. I guess only time will tell.

 

[Frk It]

Because the 2014 draft is stacked with high-end talent?

Glendenning is gonna become another Cleary, Bert etc. In the way that the "tie" will go to the veteran. Even though there is no tie. More players will rot in the AHL.

Why are you getting all worked up about Glendening? He's going to be a career 4th liner, and he brings good elements to the table to play there.

Glendening wasn't taking Jarnkroks spot. Jarnkrok would suck as a 4th line center. Having a soft, small weak skilled guy doesn't give the 4th line a purpose. It makes it a spare parts line.

I've asked this question many times to people in general here, and never get an answer...

What do you guys want your 4th line to do?

What type of players would you like to see play there?

Personally, if I ask myself that question. I see a lot of attributes that Glendening has that make him a good fit to play there.

Now if Glendening starts playing on the 3rd line or PP then I'm 100% with you. But I really doubt we see that for a guy with 30+ games and not a goal to his name.

 

[Vladdy84]

Full quote? Context?

I'm not a stenographer. Sorry.

 

[dtones520]

I think what is so harsh about it, is that the statement says he doesn't expect him to be better than guys like Andersson, Glendening, and Helm, who aren't exactly setting the world on fire, and are likely the guys who will be on 3rd and 4th lines for next several years, as well as Sheahan, who I think we all thought was Jarnkrok's main competition.

Sheahan, Andersson and Glendening (and Emmerton) played their way into spots on the Red Wings over Jarnkrok, who isn't exactly setting the world on fire, and that speaks to Jarnkroks play and his standing with the organization.

 

[PullHard]

Sheahan, Andersson and Glendening (and Emmerton) played their way into spots on the Red Wings over Jarnkrok, who isn't exactly setting the world on fire, and that speaks to Jarnkroks play and his standing with the organization.

Jarnkrok has been putting together some good games in the last month or so, so I donno what you mean. Jurco started slow last year, too. Guess we should've traded him?

And how much do any of us know about the "antsy" or "demanding" thing? Like you guys are all using it as if he a total prima donna who doesn't deserve our attention. We know literally nothing about it except someone (was it Holland?) used the word "antsy" in a media scrum.

I mean, if Jarnkrok leaves this summer for Sweden and never returns, I'd be way more understanding of the entire situation. But as it stands, there is quote from someone inside the Wings org saying he had no idea that Jarnkrok was being demanding, and Nashville has spoken to him and it seems like he doesn't plan on leaving.

 

[Winger98]

Full quote? Context?

"..we think he's going to play, we see him as a bottom6 forward, but with the development of Riley Sheahan, with Pav & Z, like Glendening in the four hole, Jurco's development, lists a bunch of guys, etc. it's going to be tough for him to force his way into our lineup in September."

He dodged a question about Jarnkrok going back to Sweden.

Eventually talks about Jarnkrok getting an opportunity in nashville he wouldn't get here because of the folks ahead of him. Again mentions that they saw Jarnkrok as a bottom6 forward here.

edit: interviews posted on Malik's.

I think what is so harsh about it, is that the statement says he doesn't expect him to be better than guys like Andersson, Glendening, and Helm, who aren't exactly setting the world on fire, and are likely the guys who will be on 3rd and 4th lines for next several years, as well as Sheahan, who I think we all thought was Jarnkrok's main competition.

But it also says he's not going to jump guys like Z, Pav, Franzen, etc. Going from the interview, it seems to be a comment more about who is ahead of Jarnkrok than who is below him. they don't expect him to be good enough to jump into our top6 in the near future.

 

[PullHard]

But it also says he's not going to jump guys like Z, Pav, Franzen, etc. Going from the interview, it seems to be a comment more about who is ahead of Jarnkrok than who is below him. they don't expect him to be good enough to jump into our top6 in the near future.

I wouldn't expect a guy to step into the NHL and be better than Datsyuk, Z, or a healthy Weiss at ~23 or 24 years old either, unless maybe he was a top 5 or 10 draft pick who was one of the best players in the CHL, or something. Like a Tavares, Crosby, maybe RNH if I'm stretching it.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

I'm not a stenographer. Sorry.

No need to cop an attitude about it.

 

[Winger98]

I wouldn't expect a guy to step into the NHL and be better than Datsyuk, Z, or a healthy Weiss at ~23 or 24 years old either, unless maybe he was a top 5 or 10 draft pick who was one of the best players in the CHL, or something. Like a Tavares, Crosby, maybe RNH if I'm stretching it.

Neither do I, and that may have been a problem for Jarnkrok. With the group of centers we have, it's difficult seeing him finding a spot anywhere other than the bottom6, and even that could be difficult. And it doesn't get much easier on the wings when we have Tatar and Nyquist playing so well, Jurco looking good, Mantha tearing up juniors, etc. I hope the kid takes the opportunity in Nashville and runs with it.

 

[PullHard]

Neither do I, and that may have been a problem for Jarnkrok. With the group of centers we have, it's difficult seeing him finding a spot anywhere other than the bottom6, and even that could be difficult. And it doesn't get much easier on the wings when we have Tatar and Nyquist playing so well, Jurco looking good, Mantha tearing up juniors, etc. I hope the kid takes the opportunity in Nashville and runs with it.

Word. If he ends up leaving for Sweden and not coming back then my tune will sound significantly different, as well. It seems like Holland bent over backwards to get a 2/3C at this moment. But maybe he spoke to Calle and he said "I don't want to play in North America." or something? It would definitely make more sense to me, at least. Only time will tell.