News Article: Lebreton talks in mediation to salvage deal

[supsens]

You may not be wrong. But what other option does ruddy have other than walk away?

That is why I think the court case scares him and it's making it so he has to smooth things over.

 

[Micklebot]

He was already offered the entire project.

except Melnyk got essentially a rent free arena. Perhaps a rent that is more reasonable would work. Melnyk basically asked him to take all the risk and let Melnyk run the arena and keep all related profits for 1 buck a year for the vast majority of an arena's usable lifespan before massive renovations would be required. That's not really a reasonable request now is it.

 

[NorthCoast]

That is why I think the court case scares him and it's making it so he has to smooth things over.

Again, sure, but regardless of the case validity, if I were to list Ruddy's top 10 priorities in order it would be.

1-9: 800 mil in profits from lebreton
10: court case

 

[IpsoPostFacto]

I think Melnyk AND Ruddy can hear the "footsteps" from Devcore and are giving this one last kick at the can. Doesn't benefit either one of them to see this thing become an open competition again. I don't have high hopes that EM can play nice with anyone, but at least the potential of losing this deal got both sides back to the table.

I agree. First, mediation was going to happen no matter what. it is forced by the courts. now, both sides can show up to mediation and not give an inch, but it does happen, so they might as well push to get it done asap before the deadline.

I would be pretty shocked if the NCC rfp, or whatever it's called, doesn't have wording all over the place to protect themselves. It may be that the Devcore position is strong - have to move to the second bidder so,

Ruddy and Melnyk probably see which way the wind is blowing and they can either mediate and hope to salvage everything or not mediate, probably spend a bunch of money with neither side winning their case, and Devcore getting to run with it - and possible having a pretty good leverage position if Euge still wants to move downtown.

 

[Canadian Time]

I keep repeating it but it would be great to just have the number would it. I mean, the gap between he two sides. Is it 50 mil? Is it 150 mil? Is it 5 mil?

What amount do billionaires draw lines in the sand over? lol Billionaire problems.

For sure. This is what mediation will find out, what's the number. From there they will try to split the difference. These mediators are pretty sharp, if you've ever been in the room with them they totally get that it's rich guys arguing over the scraps (obviously I was never the rich guy but got to see these guys work in person).

If the gap is too far, the next step is to get a third party involved, say the city or NHL or NCC, to see if there is a benefit for the third party to put up some of the gap for something they want.

This is encouraging actually, entertaining if nothing else. Watching rich guys trying to get just a little bit more.

 

[Ice-Tray]

except Melnyk got essentially a rent free arena. Perhaps a rent that is more reasonable would work. Melnyk basically asked him to take all the risk and let Melnyk run the arena and keep all related profits for 1 buck a year for the vast majority of an arena's usable lifespan before massive renovations would be required. That's not really a reasonable request now is it.

It is when the presence of the team increases the value of all of the surrounding condos and especially the commercial real eastate. Let’s not pretend that the crown jewel of the development isn’t the presence of the Ottawa Senators, it’s why the NCC came calling, and why it is essential to both bids.

In addition, the team was set to assume all of the operating expenses of the arena as well, so it’s not exactly a “free” arena. Ruddy gets the arena built, EM brigs the team and runs the arena, assuming all costs, and Ruddy reaps all of the aurrounding benefits of the NHL team living within the development.

Thousands of prime downtown condos to profit from, and tens of thousands of prime sq/ft commercial real estate to profit from, seems like a reasonable arrangement to me.

 

[Micklebot]

It is when the presence of the team increases the value of all of the surrounding condos and especially the commercial real eastate. Let’s not pretend that the crown jewel of the development isn’t the presence of the Ottawa Senators, it’s why the NCC came calling, and why it is essential to both bids.

In addition, the team was set to assume all of the operating expenses of the arena as well, so it’s not exactly a “free” arena. Ruddy gets the arena built, EM brigs the team and runs the arena, assuming all costs, and Ruddy reaps all of the aurrounding benefits of the NHL team living within the development.

Thousands of prime downtown condos to profit from, and tens of thousands of prime sq/ft commercial real estate to profit from, seems like a reasonable arrangement to me.

You're argument boils down to Ruddy should be paying Melnyk to allow him to build an arena. How much added profit do you really think Ruddy would realize by having the Sens there rather than something else? is it the 500+ mil that arena will cost to build?

Lets not pretend that the Ottawa Senators are the only viable options for that space. Don't get me wrong, I'd love for the team to be there, but lots of things could be built there that add value to the development. Perhaps they wouldn't add quite as much value to the surrounding development, but they may not cost quite as much to build, and could provide revenue streams back to the developer instead of some guy who refuses to take any of the risk,

The team was set to assume operating costs? Really? That's so generous of them... good lord...

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

What place were they in when the deal was made? It was not comical at the time. And like I staded the plan was to stay in the playoffs and keep Duchene. Personal problems in a locker room turned things upside-down not the owner, not the GM.

It was a bad trade then too and that was the consensus opinion at the time, it's just moved in to disaster territory now since we're fulfilling the top pick to Colorado prophecy and we still have no deal in place with Duchene. Regardless, that is more on Dorion and his continued inability to manage efficiently.

You're entitled to your own opinion on that trade, I was pointing out your disingenuous claim that the deal was somehow proof of Melnyk spending. This was your quote, "Contrary to what the negative Nancy's say the better deal Melnyk gets the more money the team spends. They made money in the playoffs and instantly targeted Duchene, I know the wheels fell off but they did try." Getting a better player by giving up a kings ransom and not actually adding salary is not any example of him willing to spend more no matter what side of the debate you fall on.

 

[Gil Gunderson]

What place were they in when the deal was made? It was not comical at the time. And like I staded the plan was to stay in the playoffs and keep Duchene. Personal problems in a locker room turned things upside-down not the owner, not the GM.

That trade was always horribly bad. Most knew Duchene was going to bolt from the start.

 

[Silencio]

That trade was always horribly bad. Most knew Duchene was going to bolt from the start.

Really? I mean Bobby Ryan had signed an extension after basically being in the same situation as Duchene, and Karlsson was still expected to be a Senator for life at the time of the Duchene trade (the "get what I'm worth/even Gretzky was traded saga was still weeks away), so I'm not sure why people would automatically assume Duchene would walk.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

It's all about Devcore. They're going to swoop in and steal the goose that lays the golden eggs. That's the last thing Ruddy and Melynk want. It's still bad for Melynk....if he's telling the truth about losing bazillions of dollars on the team, any kind of dragging out whether its lawsuits or mediation would force him to sell. That's IF he's truthful about being little mister poor team owner. The idea that he even went ahead to try and torpedo this deal to begin with strongly suggests otherwise.

 

[supsens]

It was a bad trade then too and that was the consensus opinion at the time, it's just moved in to disaster territory now since we're fulfilling the top pick to Colorado prophecy and we still have no deal in place with Duchene. Regardless, that is more on Dorion and his continued inability to manage efficiently.

You're entitled to your own opinion on that trade, I was pointing out your disingenuous claim that the deal was somehow proof of Melnyk spending. This was your quote, "Contrary to what the negative Nancy's say the better deal Melnyk gets the more money the team spends. They made money in the playoffs and instantly targeted Duchene, I know the wheels fell off but they did try." Getting a better player by giving up a kings ransom and not actually adding salary is not any example of him willing to spend more no matter what side of the debate you fall on.

They intended to resign him. That would be a raise. And more money. Why ignore that?

 

[supsens]

It's all about Devcore. They're going to swoop in and steal the goose that lays the golden eggs. That's the last thing Ruddy and Melynk want. It's still bad for Melynk....if he's telling the truth about losing bazillions of dollars on the team, any kind of dragging out whether its lawsuits or mediation would force him to sell. That's IF he's truthful about being little mister poor team owner. The idea that he even went ahead to try and torpedo this deal to begin with strongly suggests otherwise.

It aint about devcore it was a shit deal for Melnyk and thats why he offered the whole deal to Ruddy, he knew he wouldn't touch it. And suprise suprise he didn't.

 

[supsens]

except Melnyk got essentially a rent free arena. Perhaps a rent that is more reasonable would work. Melnyk basically asked him to take all the risk and let Melnyk run the arena and keep all related profits for 1 buck a year for the vast majority of an arena's usable lifespan before massive renovations would be required. That's not really a reasonable request now is it.

Ruddy would still get naming rights and all advertising dollars outside the areana for 25 years.

They asked Melnyk to take all the risk, build an areana he wont own and hand over millions a year in advertising. Is that what you would call a reasonable request?

 

[Micklebot]

It aint about devcore it was a **** deal for Melnyk and thats why he offered the whole deal to Ruddy, he knew he wouldn't touch it. And suprise suprise he didn't.

He didn't offer the whole deal, he offered all the risk in the deal while keeping all the arena related profits.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

They intended to resign him. That would be a raise. And more money. Why ignore that?

Because he isn't signed. Right or wrong, good intentions or not, pen to paper is all that matters after everything that's transpired for this team and unfortunately we're almost out of time.

As far as Dorion's role in that trade goes, well, GM's are judged on hindsight because it's the nature of the job and part of the job is to try to predict. If we move Duchene at the deadline for a rental return, and finish in the bottom, he absolutely deserves to be judged for a move that turned out so poorly, it comes with the territory.

 

[supsens]

He didn't offer the whole deal, he offered all the risk in the deal while keeping all the arena related profits.

Here is the thing, we have an owner who is going balls to the wall,( billion dollar lawsuit, hundreds of millions of dollars profits at risk balls to the wall) and as far as I can tell the only fight he is picking is to land the sens the best possible deal. And yes I understand he will benefit from the sale of the team. But I have no idea why everyone is dead set to go against him. He will sell sooner or later and the more perks and revenue streams this guy gets the team the better.
I don't want some random developer draing millions in revenue forever. I understand people don't like Melnyk but why is everyone cheering on failure and being all pro Ruddy take the sens money?

 

[Micklebot]

Here is the thing, we have an owner who is going balls to the wall,( billion dollar lawsuit, hundreds of millions of dollars profits at risk balls to the wall) and as far as I can tell the only fight he is picking is to land the sens the best possible deal. And yes I understand he will benefit from the sale of the team. But I have no idea why everyone is dead set to go against him. He will sell sooner or later and the more perks and revenue streams this guy gets the team the better.
I don't want some random developer draing millions in revenue forever. I understand people don't like Melnyk but why is everyone cheering on failure and being all pro Ruddy take the sens money?

The concern I have is he is making demands that seem more likely to tank the whole deal than to get a better deal. His actions seem more like somebody trying to walk away than trying to max out his opportunity.

 

[supsens]

The concern I have is he is making demands that seem more likely to tank the whole deal than to get a better deal. His actions seem more like somebody trying to walk away than trying to max out his opportunity.

Well as a wise man one said, you gotta know when to hold'em, know when to fold'em, know when to walk away and know when to run.

He can't just destroy the teams finances forever to help Ruddy make money because 'downtown.' I also hope he isn't taking it too far but why on earth does Ruddy think he should get NHL advertisement money?

 

[Mr Hat]

Here is the thing, we have an owner who is going balls to the wall,( billion dollar lawsuit, hundreds of millions of dollars profits at risk balls to the wall) and as far as I can tell the only fight he is picking is to land the sens the best possible deal. And yes I understand he will benefit from the sale of the team. But I have no idea why everyone is dead set to go against him. He will sell sooner or later and the more perks and revenue streams this guy gets the team the better.
I don't want some random developer draing millions in revenue forever. I understand people don't like Melnyk but why is everyone cheering on failure and being all pro Ruddy take the sens money?

Balls to the walls? Melnyk has basically put his nuts in the blender and turned it on. What he's doing is completely insane and self inflicted. His reputation and trust with his businesses partners, the mayor, the fans, and the whole city is destroyed. It's not hard to understand.

 

[supsens]

Balls to the walls? Melnyk has basically put his nuts in the blender and turned it on. What he's doing is completely insane and self inflicted. His reputation and trust with his businesses partners, the mayor, the fans, and the whole city is destroyed. It's not hard to understand.

So a guy that ownes a team and a rink should lock into one of the worst rink deals in the NHL for the next 25 years?

 

[JD1]

I agree. First, mediation was going to happen no matter what. it is forced by the courts. now, both sides can show up to mediation and not give an inch, but it does happen, so they might as well push to get it done asap before the deadline.

I would be pretty shocked if the NCC rfp, or whatever it's called, doesn't have wording all over the place to protect themselves. It may be that the Devcore position is strong - have to move to the second bidder so,

Ruddy and Melnyk probably see which way the wind is blowing and they can either mediate and hope to salvage everything or not mediate, probably spend a bunch of money with neither side winning their case, and Devcore getting to run with it - and possible having a pretty good leverage position if Euge still wants to move downtown.

Devcore's position is not strong. The language that iread says "the ncc in it's sole discretion may..." so there is zero obligation on the ncc enr to hegotiate with devcore. They may choose to do that to avoie another lengthy procurement but they are not obligated to do so.

What isn't clear is the extent to which the devcore bid can be changed. They can negotiate melnyk in because the proposal included an arena but it's not like there is a pick list here and they can drop items they don't like and add what they dO want. Doing that sort of thing invites a 3rd party to complain about the process

 

[JD1]

You're argument boils down to Ruddy should be paying Melnyk to allow him to build an arena. How much added profit do you really think Ruddy would realize by having the Sens there rather than something else? is it the 500+ mil that arena will cost to build?

Lets not pretend that the Ottawa Senators are the only viable options for that space. Don't get me wrong, I'd love for the team to be there, but lots of things could be built there that add value to the development. Perhaps they wouldn't add quite as much value to the surrounding development, but they may not cost quite as much to build, and could provide revenue streams back to the developer instead of some guy who refuses to take any of the risk,

The team was set to assume operating costs? Really? That's so generous of them... good lord...

Operating costs on an arena for 30 years would exceed rent you'd think

 

[JD1]

The concern I have is he is making demands that seem more likely to tank the whole deal than to get a better deal. His actions seem more like somebody trying to walk away than trying to max out his opportunity.

Really?

Think about this....even if his demands are met his situation wouldn't be as strong as Katz's situation in Edmonton

 

[topshelf15]

Well as a wise man one said, you gotta know when to hold'em, know when to fold'em, know when to walk away and know when to run.

He can't just destroy the teams finances forever to help Ruddy make money because 'downtown.' I also hope he isn't taking it too far but why on earth does Ruddy think he should get NHL advertisement money?

Lol .....