Speculation: Leafs rushed the rebuild

[GoodNewfieBoy]

I knew they would.

They weren’t ready to add a huge UFA like Tavares. The timing they had to make a choice and I get it. I said at the time how much I hated the decision.

Here it is now proving to us all why it was the wrong one. Yes he’s a hell of player but he destroyed the cap structure on the team. Leafs should of re signed their core before going after Tavares.

That should of been priority number one not getting another high priced forward. It arguably took away 3 years of us being competitive. Can’t even imagine what the Marner contract will look like either. Fact is also Tavares was a luxury not a need at all.

Doubt Matthews contract looked like this if not for Tavares.

Reported asks for Marner 9X8 and Matthews 12.34*8 in the summer (although Matthews there was a lot of different insider opinions on what the number in the summer was but either way it was 8 years.)

LOL...

 

[Mess]

Tavares didn’t rush the rebuild, he changed where you need to allocate money/position to the core.
We haven’t.
The core should be:
Matthews/Tavares
1 of Marner/Nylander
Rielly/Muzzin/RHD
Andersen

Money available to make sure our depth has some quality and not Goat/Ennis fill ins.
You need Kadri/Kappy/etc. level.

Dubas at present doesn't appear to recognize and some fans don't want to acknowledge it YET, but I agree Nylander is a goner sooner or later once AM and MM new deals are active.He thought he was going to talk AM + MM + WN into cap saving discount contracts "We before Me" and that clearly is not happening.

It comes down to Nylander at $7 mil + Marlie + Marlie as your choice of team building strategy or instead of paying 1 player $7 mil you break that down to pay 3 players (Hyman, Brown and Johnsson) $2-3 mil each, or use that money to resign Muzzin moving it from top heavy Forwards cap costs to balancing out spending by position for the Defense group.

Leafs are really being built around 2 X #1C + 1 high-end winger (likely Marner) and Rielly and Andersen as its core group that will take runs at Cups and fill in with cost effective players (mostly young players on cheap ELC contracts) or cheap vets willing to play for < $1.5 mil on average.

 

[Trapper]

Dubas at present doesn't appear to recognize and some fans don't want to acknowledge it YET, but I agree Nylander is a goner sooner or later once AM and MM new deals are active.He thought he was going to talk AM + MM + WN into cap saving discount contracts "We before Me" and that clearly is not happening.

It comes down to Nylander at $7 mil + Marlie + Marlie as your choice of team building strategy or instead of paying 1 player $7 mil you break that down to pay 3 players (Hyman, Brown and Johnsson) $2-3 mil each, or use that money to resign Muzzin moving it from top heavy Forwards cap costs to balancing out spending by position for the Defense group.

Leafs are really being built around 2 X #1C + 1 high-end winger (likely Marner) and Rielly and Andersen as its core group that will take runs at Cups and fill in with cost effective players (mostly young players on cheap ELC contracts) or cheap vets willing to play for < $1.5 mil on average.

Number of 1 million dollar or less players Chicago is using - 13.

 

[Mess]

Number of 1 million dollar or less players Chicago is using - 13.

You and I are on the same page here. Chicago won 3 X Cups and then Toews and Kane got rich with $10.5 mil deals and now Hawks struggle to make the playoffs and constantly dumping players to remain Cup compliant.

They have 2 X players making >$ 10 mil and struggling to compete, and next year its looking like Leafs will have 3 X players => $10 mil.

Leafs are going to also need 1/2 a team of $1 mil players, because they will have 4 X Forwards eating up 1/2 the teams total salary Cap.

 

[Ryan Michaels]

I screamed about this... SCREAMED about it... after the leafs 7 rookie team snuck into the playoffs. This was less than ONE year after we were told to "prepare for pain". I said that the rebuild WASN'T done. That we needed to improve our defensive prospect depth. But that MLSE wouldn't be able to control themselves and the rebuild would be over. And then (OF COURSE) the Marleau contract was signed, sealing our fate.

MLSE will never be able to not see the short term playoff profit margin. It will never go away. EVER.

And now we got too good too quickly, inflating our young players stats, making them sign for unprecedented numbers. This rebuild got royally ****ed up. Most leaf fans won't accept it yet. We've already been through so much, and they just can't accpet it. But they will. We pay unproven players far FAR too much money right now, and we won't be able to acquire the depth to make deep playoff runs.

Wow, what a fresh look for you.

 

[Vaive50]

The rebuild started when Shanahan became Leafs president at the end of the 2013/2014 season so this is year 5, everything is going as planned. It was ugly at first, there was lot's to clean up and lot's to get rid of, but the plan kept moving along and the team had to get worse before they could get better. The rebuild didn't start when the Leafs snuck into the playoffs (on the last weekend) with that team of most rookies, that was Shanny's 3rd year with the Leafs. JT basically replaced JVR and Bozak and took a hometown discount to do so.

 

[Legion34]

Our young GM tried to play hardball but he didn't realize you cant get by with a 75mph fastball.

Had he locked these guys up this past summer, things would be much different. He had a gameplan, it failed miserably. Now eye going to lose players because of it.

Again. ZERO of the key RFA's this year signed this summer. ZERO. Is that Dubas' fault too?

 

[topched]

Wow, what a fresh look for you.

Can you imagine criticizing a sports team for “getting too good too quickly” with a straight face?

 

[BlueForever75]

Can you imagine criticizing a sports team for “getting too good too quickly” with a straight face?

Only in Toronto

 

[wam_raven]

The owners have literally lost all the leverage they ever had.

They never had any. No one is going to write an article or complain on a forum if an owner doesn't show up to the game because he doesn't feel he's making enough money. They just can't go own for another team either. They're stuck, players aren't.

 

[Skin Tape Session]

I could argue after Matthews went Mario in his rookie season our rebuild was over. Am34 marner and nylander were all making 900k. We should of won a cup by now or this year.. Wasting a year of nylanders ELC contract was the mis step, not signing a 27 year old franchise leafs fan center, thats absurd.

We can not waste Rielly and Andersens deals. Thankfully we have impact D coming on elc. We really need to win this year

 

[Trapper]

You and I are on the same page here. Chicago won 3 X Cups and then Toews and Kane got rich with $10.5 mil deals and now Hawks struggle to make the playoffs and constantly dumping players to remain Cup compliant.

They have 2 X players making >$ 10 mil and struggling to compete, and next year its looking like Leafs will have 3 X players => $10 mil.

Leafs are going to also need 1/2 a team of $1 mil players, because they will have 4 X Forwards eating up 1/2 the teams total salary Cap.

And it’s not like the top paid guys aren’t performing. A case could be made for Seabrook I suppose.

Toews on pace for 80 + points and Kane for 100 +.
Debrincat current on ELC is pacing for 70 +.
You can’t be depth poor.

Some people will feel you don’t need to allocate core to your D, but I don’t think I was being unreasonable.

Rielly (5) with raise in 3 years, Muzzin at (6?) re-signed and Zaitsev at 4 or his replacement like a Pesce at 4 is pretty much bare bones. That leaves 4 players to fill in and it can’t be Marincin/Holl level.
Dermott/Sandin/Lily ok but you still need the 3 support.

You can’t just fill a forward core with Ennis,Lindholm,Goat,Moore,etc and expect them to pick up the slack everywhere.
You still need Kadri/Kapanen level players and contracts.

Are we also assuming Marner remains a 100 point player from now on and what if Nylander slumps again. Or Matthews gets hurt. The depth will decrease.

 

[A1LeafNation]

So did CHI and PIT.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Number of 1 million dollar or less players Chicago is using - 13.

And that's working out so well fo them.

 

[I Believe]

Live in the moment fellas.

Does it really make sense to stress out over our 2024/25 cup chances so much that you can't enjoy the great team we have today?

 

[Erdinger]

The rebuild was rushed for sure.

We have a tiny 5 year window with below average D and 1 LW. Non-contact wingers.

How long are most team's windows in the cap era?

 

[HamiltonNHL]

How long are most team's windows in the cap era?

great question. Not sure.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Dubas at present doesn't appear to recognize and some fans don't want to acknowledge it YET, but I agree Nylander is a goner sooner or later once AM and MM new deals are active.He thought he was going to talk AM + MM + WN into cap saving discount contracts "We before Me" and that clearly is not happening.

It comes down to Nylander at $7 mil + Marlie + Marlie as your choice of team building strategy or instead of paying 1 player $7 mil you break that down to pay 3 players (Hyman, Brown and Johnsson) $2-3 mil each, or use that money to resign Muzzin moving it from top heavy Forwards cap costs to balancing out spending by position for the Defense group.

Leafs are really being built around 2 X #1C + 1 high-end winger (likely Marner) and Rielly and Andersen as its core group that will take runs at Cups and fill in with cost effective players (mostly young players on cheap ELC contracts) or cheap vets willing to play for < $1.5 mil on average.

Or you move Zaitsev, and if you have to, you move Brown, or you move Marleau, don't tell me you can't trade Marleau players with NMC get traded all the time I'm sure there would be interest

It's only tight for 1 year then Marleau, Horton Brown and Muzzin come off the books that's 17 million and that doesn't include a rising cap, and it will rise it always does.

 

[shakes]

Is there any way us fans can pressure management to be horrid again? This is far, far, far too many good players on the team and that worries me. What will happen to the Leafs picks? Is picking later in the first round worth the possible success? I think not. It's draft or bust. That's the name of the game. Next time, they need to make their picks sign for league minimum for 8 years. It's pretty easy to do. Just tell them to sign the contract and done. Dubas is so stupid by not making AM sign a league minimum contract. So, so easy.

 

[Morbo]

As a long time Leaf fan, this thread is hilarious.

 

[DankinIT]

Talk about your odd time backfire OP. Post something relevant

 

[Erdinger]

As a long time Leaf fan, this thread is hilarious.

It's unreal. It's like people have totally forgotten all the futility of the past 50+ years and are crying about something 5 years down the road

 

[Trapper]

Live in the moment fellas.

Does it really make sense to stress out over our 2024/25 cup chances so much that you can't enjoy the great team we have today?

There would probably be a different feel if this team had gone a few rounds to the Conference final.

At present, those who believe we are allocating too much in one area or missing personnel to be effective playing necessary styles in the playoffs will reserve judgement.

These threads however will seem like a summer day if we get bounced in the 1st round again. Might need to close this board for a week.

 

[Maplebeasts]

This thread is bad and you should feel bad. They are a top 5 team right now and are a serious threat to win a cup for the foreseeable future. What else do you want?

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Can you imagine criticizing a sports team for “getting too good too quickly” with a straight face?

Yes I can, because our fanbase is FILLED with people who have no clue