Speculation: Leafs rushed the rebuild

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

This thread is bad and you should feel bad. They are a top 5 team right now and are a serious threat to win a cup for the foreseeable future. What else do you want?

Less good players, we know that because the OP said they hated the Tavares signing

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Again. ZERO of the key RFA's this year signed this summer. ZERO. Is that Dubas' fault too?

Well he's the GM so...... Yes

 

[The CyNick]

Again. ZERO of the key RFA's this year signed this summer. ZERO. Is that Dubas' fault too?

They seem to be waiting to see how badly our young GM screwed up because it will set the rate for their clients. The guys who are negotiating against seasoned pros likely couldn't get their clients the type of dollars we are handing out. But now that our young GM has reset the market, they can follow suit.

 

[Gary Nylund]

As a long time Leaf fan, this thread is hilarious.

Indeed it is. I've thought about posting something today but I keep running into the same problem - I have no idea what to say to this nonsense. What is there to say?

 

[81Leafs50]

Yeah, mostly because Dubas. Everyone else still got reasonable deals but us. Why are we always the losers in this game? Why? Tell me please, why are we constantly creating Muskoka 5 scenarios and such? Why is this?

its obvious you dont get it.

Tampa cannot give Stamkos 11mill for 8 years if the team itself only makes $146 mill profit in one season. In comparison Leafs made $232M in 2018.

88 mill for 1 player, and 120mill profit. SO the player has to take less to make it work.

Leafs fans do not understand markets. Yankees pay free agents HUNDREDS of millions and other smaller market teams do not.

Do you think Laine will get Matthews or Marner money in Winnipeg? Jets arens fits 15,320, Scotianank Arena fits 19,800. You can see how much more one team makes than the other just based on the this one fact.

So understand the market. Understand the ownership. Undesrstand the year in which the deal is signed and the cap ramifications.

The AAV number on contracts DONT matter anymore. Players and agents see the cap as a 100% whole, then they say Crosby got 16.67% (16.67% of $79.5mill = 13,252,650) . So Matthews wants that percentage. No one cares about the AAV number.

 

[sxvnert]

Dubas at present doesn't appear to recognize and some fans don't want to acknowledge it YET, but I agree Nylander is a goner sooner or later once AM and MM new deals are active.He thought he was going to talk AM + MM + WN into cap saving discount contracts "We before Me" and that clearly is not happening.

It comes down to Nylander at $7 mil + Marlie + Marlie as your choice of team building strategy or instead of paying 1 player $7 mil you break that down to pay 3 players (Hyman, Brown and Johnsson) $2-3 mil each, or use that money to resign Muzzin moving it from top heavy Forwards cap costs to balancing out spending by position for the Defense group.

Leafs are really being built around 2 X #1C + 1 high-end winger (likely Marner) and Rielly and Andersen as its core group that will take runs at Cups and fill in with cost effective players (mostly young players on cheap ELC contracts) or cheap vets willing to play for < $1.5 mil on average.

Before Nylander is moved:

Marleau (6.25)
Zaitsev (4.5)
Kadri (4.5)
Brown (2.1)

After a strong 19/20 season by Nylander then you consider moving him.

 

[81Leafs50]

They never had any. No one is going to write an article or complain on a forum if an owner doesn't show up to the game because he doesn't feel he's making enough money. They just can't go own for another team either. They're stuck, players aren't.

when the owners locked out the players no one getting paid so there was lots of pressure on the players to give in and the owners got 8 year max deals and the cap.

NOW almost all players get signing bonuses now and in the case of a lockout the players will get paid and there will be no leverage for owners.

 

[Legion34]

They seem to be waiting to see how badly our young GM screwed up because it will set the rate for their clients. The guys who are negotiating against seasoned pros likely couldn't get their clients the type of dollars we are handing out. But now that our young GM has reset the market, they can follow suit.

So in your mind, they ALL collectively at the same time decided to wait? Really? thats honestly what you are going to go with?

 

[thewave]

its obvious you dont get it.

Tampa cannot give Stamkos 11mill for 8 years if the team itself only makes $146 mill profit in one season. In comparison Leafs made $232M in 2018.

88 mill for 1 player, and 120mill profit. SO the player has to take less to make it work.

Leafs fans do not understand markets. Yankees pay free agents HUNDREDS of millions and other smaller market teams do not.

Do you think Laine will get Matthews or Marner money in Winnipeg? Jets arens fits 15,320, Scotianank Arena fits 19,800. You can see how much more one team makes than the other just based on the this one fact.

So understand the market. Understand the ownership. Undesrstand the year in which the deal is signed and the cap ramifications.

The AAV number on contracts DONT matter anymore. Players and agents see the cap as a 100% whole, then they say Crosby got 16.67% (16.67% of $79.5mill = 13,252,650) . So Matthews wants that percentage. No one cares about the AAV number.

So the cap has broken the league fairness and there is no point in buying Merch anymore. The cap and what you are saying can not co-exist. Sounds good, I withdraw my support of the NHL until the Leafs do something to protect our interests.

 

[Trapper]

Indeed it is. I've thought about posting something today but I keep running into the same problem - I have no idea what to say to this nonsense. What is there to say?

Be a team player and just make something up.

 

[81Leafs50]

So the cap has broken the league fairness and there is no point in buying Merch anymore. The cap and what you are saying can not co-exist. Sounds good, I withdraw my support of the NHL until the Leafs do something to protect our interests.

it is what it is.

 

[neversaydie]

I knew they would.

They weren’t ready to add a huge UFA like Tavares. The timing they had to make a choice and I get it. I said at the time how much I hated the decision.

Here it is now proving to us all why it was the wrong one. Yes he’s a hell of player but he destroyed the cap structure on the team. Leafs should of re signed their core before going after Tavares.

That should of been priority number one not getting another high priced forward. It arguably took away 3 years of us being competitive. Can’t even imagine what the Marner contract will look like either. Fact is also Tavares was a luxury not a need at all.

Doubt Matthews contract looked like this if not for Tavares.

Reported asks for Marner 9X8 and Matthews 12.34*8 in the summer (although Matthews there was a lot of different insider opinions on what the number in the summer was but either way it was 8 years.)

This is all kinds of wrong...LOL...mate we would have had Matthews at 13.8 million per year for 8 years and no JT, this team would have regressed this year. Terrible take . Take a lap

 

[Jack Bauer]

So the cap has broken the league fairness and there is no point in buying Merch anymore. The cap and what you are saying can not co-exist. Sounds good, I withdraw my support of the NHL until the Leafs do something to protect our interests.

What sport have you been following since 2005?

Of course the cap broke "fairness" in terms of being loyal and buying merch of your team or watching them and drawing higher ratings means more revenue and thus a better team for you the fan.

Only 1 North American pro sports league works that way now. Major League baseball.

Ironically enough is there a healthier league overall then MLB right now?

Everyone knew the NHL's cap was to prop up the bottom teams revenue wise because there was too much of an imbalance between the $80mil payrolls of the early 2000's and the $20mil payrolls of the same time.

We finally decided to protect our interests by using our financial ability to draw the best off ice people and let them execute the old school tried and proven method of building through high draft picks and using the cap space that would bring to sign elite free agents.

Drafting Nylander, Marner, Matthews. Trading for Andersen, Kapanen, Muzzin. Signing Marleau, Tavares and Hainsey. All done to protect our interests.

 

[The CyNick]

So in your mind, they ALL collectively at the same time decided to wait? Really? thats honestly what you are going to go with?

Let me throw this one back at you. Do you think agents talk with one another? I will answer for you, they do.

Everyone is trying to maximize money for their clients. If an agent knows our young GM is a poor negotiator and will hand out huge contacts, he'll suggest to his client that they wait to see where the markets ends up. I believe that's what is happening. Guys still may choose to wait to play the offer sheet card, but our young GM made a lot of agents really happy.

 

[JamesMcNulty215]

I think the Leafs have rushed it slightly imo. 2 areas.

1)I think allowing last year’s UFAs to leave for nothing was a mistake. We were not good enough to contend and missed out on a huge bounty of picks and prospects. We don’t have much to offer now that we are ready to contend.

2) all of the rfas should have been dealt with earlier. We’ve been reactive and slow and it’s cost us a lot of cap room. Every rfa is winning every negotiation and it will make it difficult for us to win a cup IMO. One of the biggest tasks for leafs management was to establish an internal pay structure and they’ve failed miserably.

I think the above 2 mistakes have made it significantly more difficult for the Leafs to win in the next few years.

 

[Legion34]

Let me throw this one back at you. Do you think agents talk with one another? I will answer for you, they do.

Everyone is trying to maximize money for their clients. If an agent knows our young GM is a poor negotiator and will hand out huge contacts, he'll suggest to his client that they wait to see where the markets ends up. I believe that's what is happening. Guys still may choose to wait to play the offer sheet card, but our young GM made a lot of agents really happy.

So as of JULY 1. When every single RFA this year was eligible to sign. The same day our rookie agent signed the biggest UFA maybe ever for 14 million less than competitors.

They all decided to sit down and have a meeting and decide that Kyle dubas is a bad negotiator who would drive up the market. AND were all willing to risk injury and missing out on millions?

Orrrrrr the market is changing?

 

[The CyNick]

So as of JULY 1. When every single RFA this year was eligible to sign. The same day our rookie agent signed the biggest UFA maybe ever for 14 million less than competitors.

They all decided to sit down and have a meeting and decide that Kyle dubas is a bad negotiator who would drive up the market. AND were all willing to risk injury and missing out on millions?

Orrrrrr the market is changing?

I think it's a combination, but I think our young GM was a huge factor.

The JT contact had nothing to do with anything. Just like with Matthews he was able to use the financial might of the Leafs to front load the deal with bonuses. All other offers aside from Isles were white noise. It was always between staying with Isles vs Leafs.

But yeah I think agents would have bet that Matthews, Nylander and Marner would hit home runs now that Lou was out of the picture. Our young GM should have got this stuff wrapped up July 2nd, but he misread the situation and it's cost us millions against the cap.

 

[Legion34]

I think it's a combination, but I think our young GM was a huge factor.

The JT contact had nothing to do with anything. Just like with Matthews he was able to use the financial might of the Leafs to front load the deal with bonuses. All other offers aside from Isles were white noise. It was always between staying with Isles vs Leafs.

But yeah I think agents would have bet that Matthews, Nylander and Marner would hit home runs now that Lou was out of the picture. Our young GM should have got this stuff wrapped up July 2nd, but he misread the situation and it's cost us millions against the cap.

Again none of th RFAs signed. Every gm now misread the situation? Or only the agents all knew divas was a bad negotiator?

 

[Menzinger]

Complaining more about the Leafs competitiveness in 2027 over 2019 is definitely an amazing example of peak “Hfboards logic” lol

Seriously guys, calm down just a wee bit.

 

[Menzinger]

Again none of th RFAs signed. Every gm now misread the situation? Or only the agents all knew divas was a bad negotiator?

No use bringing logic into this discussion

 

[The CyNick]

Again none of th RFAs signed. Every gm now misread the situation? Or only the agents all knew divas was a bad negotiator?

I think agents rightly thought they would do better against him vs Lou.

 

[Legion34]

I think agents rightly thought they would do better against him vs Lou.

All of them? Every single RFA has chosen to wait. Except matthews. They could have signed July 1.

 

[tmlms13]

I think agents rightly thought they would do better against him vs Lou.

Lou caved to AM on the rookie bonuses

 

[Gary Nylund]

I've though about this some more and I've decided that I'm glad they rushed it. I mean what the hell, I've been waiting since the 80's so ...

 

[Gabriel426]

They seem to be waiting to see how badly our young GM screwed up because it will set the rate for their clients. The guys who are negotiating against seasoned pros likely couldn't get their clients the type of dollars we are handing out. But now that our young GM has reset the market, they can follow suit.

In short, you are saying they couldn’t get a deal done in the summer bc teams are all lowballing but Dubas is the Light for them bc he is young and will make a mistake by overpaying Leafs players.
The fact that they(players and agents) are all betting on this year productions, the fact that none of the teams are even offering remotely what their clients want, the threat of OS on July 1st as well as an expected higher cap in 2019 vs 2018 had nothing to do it. Everything evolves around what Dubas and the Leafs are going to do.