Speculation: Leafs need defensive help to contend

[Nineteen67]

This trade would still leave a hole on defense, but it's certainly not awful... It has us trading our 5-7th best forward to turn our questionable #3-4 defenseman into a #1, while only taking on an extra 2-3 million dollar on the cap. Of course we do that. We could fill Zaitsev's hole fairly easily.

This trade has some implications, but is totally workable if not fantastic for us. Don't know where you get "brutal" from at all.

The Leafs get Zaitsev’s cap space.

 

[Joey Hoser]

The Leafs get Zaitsev’s cap space.

Yeah, that's why I said we only take on an extra 2-3 million.

 

[cannucky]

Zaitsev ,Brown for Peitrangelo , throw in a late round pick and we save 100k in cap .

 

[sxvnert]

If they could somehow offload Zaitsevs deal (would probably have to retain 1m) + a mix of picks and prospects:

Rielly Pietrangelo
Gards Hainsey
Dermott Oz

Next year:

Rielly Pietrangelo
Dermott Myers
Hainsey Oz

Pietrangelo is the type of D I don't mind slightly overpaying for.

 

[Zybalto]

This trade would still leave a hole on defense, but it's certainly not awful... It has us trading our 5-7th best forward to turn our questionable #3-4 defenseman into a #1, while only taking on an extra 2-3 million dollar on the cap. Of course we do that. We could fill Zaitsev's hole fairly easily.

This trade has some implications, but is totally workable if not fantastic for us. Don't know where you get "brutal" from at all.

Maybe I exaggerated with the brutal comment but we are really tight with bonuses and I'm just not sure the money works. I'm also loathe to give up any picks yet.

Its going to be pretty much 0 chance to keep Gards as well but I could maybe look at that as an opportunity to trade him for assets. Would have to play the kids on D next year but Liljegren and Sandin are both looking good.....

Dammit, I'm starting to talk myself into liking this trade!

 

[sxvnert]

or the leafs could wait a year and sign him for free.

 

[cannucky]

Adding more small puck moving D just magnifies the true problem , modern D have to be both fast puck movers and big enough to dominate in the corners . I watched the Boston feed for last nights game and every Bruin including the coach said the same thing between period and pregame , " The trick to playing the leafs is make them play defense , trap the stretch pass and counter , pressure the puck in Toronto's end " what does this tell you ? It tells me teams know we are soft all over the ice and our speedy small playing D can't handle the physical pressure in our end . Sandin and Liljegren are going to be even bigger tire fires than the guys we have now as more and more teams play this style against us .

 

[Swedish Gretzky]

Kronwall

 

[SHANNYPLAN]

Jake Gardiner
for
Tyler Myers
(Pending UFA Swap)

Leafs 2nd
for
Radko Gudas

Connor Brown
for
Ryan Reaves

Jeremy Bracco, Justin Holl & 1st
for
Chris Kreider

KREIDER/MATTHEWS/NYLANDER
HYMAN/TAVARES/MARNER
MARLEAU/KADRI/KAPANEN
JOHNSSON/LINDHOLM/REAVES

RIELLY/GUDAS
DERMOTT/MYERS
HAINSEY/ZAITSEV
BORGMAN/OZHIGANOV


​

 

[Swedish Gretzky]

Pietrangelo


For

Zaitsev
Kapanen
1st round pick
2nd round pick

I think thats fair

 

[HoweHullOrr]

If we are adding contracts that extend into next year, not sure how we do that without getting rid of contracts. Even with getting rid of Gardiner, you’ll be adding salary for his replacement. That’s when/why adding an ELC makes sense. You end up with a reduction of the Cap this way, again unless the plan is to get rid of even more contracts.

 

[Liminality]

Zaitsev ,Brown for Peitrangelo , throw in a late round pick and we save 100k in cap .

There's no way they accept that, no reason to.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Zaitsev ,Brown for Peitrangelo , throw in a late round pick and we save 100k in cap .

Would be good for us, but suspect Blues could do better elsewhere. Maybe if it was a better pick than a late round.

 

[ITM]

Pietrangelo


For

Zaitsev
Kapanen
1st round pick
2nd round pick

I think thats fair

It may be but Kapanen's speed, skill and willingness to grind isn't something I'd want to move.

 

[ITM]

Jake Gardiner
for
Tyler Myers
(Pending UFA Swap)

Leafs 2nd
for
Radko Gudas

Connor Brown
for
Ryan Reaves

Jeremy Bracco, Justin Holl & 1st
for
Chris Kreider

KREIDER/MATTHEWS/NYLANDER
HYMAN/TAVARES/MARNER
MARLEAU/KADRI/KAPANEN
JOHNSSON/LINDHOLM/REAVES

RIELLY/GUDAS
DERMOTT/MYERS
HAINSEY/ZAITSEV
BORGMAN/OZHIGANOV


​

Yes and yes.

I like Gardiner. I think he needs a Methot type.

Krieder...For something on top of the offer besides a 1st, Sandin or Grundstrom, sure. Not the 1st though...We might need it for AP.

 

[smitty10]

I'd like to see the Leafs move some futures for Gudas and Muzzin. Really shore up this D. Move Zaitsev either in one of the deals or to Edmonton.

Rielly-Muzzin
Gardiner-Gudas
Dermott-Hainsey
Oz

Lots of experience there. Not sure what they'd cost, but we have the cap space this year to do it and maybe even retain one or both of them depending on what Gards does.

 

[Leafsfan74]

Leafs don't need to panic, they simply should have addressed this in the off season. You can win a great number of games but if you leave yourself open to any deficiencies other teams will exploit it. Even inferior talent can win games if they get the lucky bounce or PP to win a game 5-4

Ultimately, I think Babcock is convinced this defense can elevate and succeed based on some of his comments. It might even be him behind the scenes suggesting it to Dubas and others, I don't know, I only speculate. However, I suggest that this is where the GM, President and others have to say "the facts don't lie".

If you want to know what is a concern to your team, find someone to ask honestly (if you can get an answer) from other teams coaches what they tell their team to do against the Leafs. It will be the same right? Try and clog up the middle, don't take penalties and drive hard through their defense.

I recall the Habs of a few years ago that had stellar defense, a great number of shot blockers and the best goalie in the world in Price on top of his game. They made it to the final four once, never addressing their achilles heel, they couldn't score goals, they always believed that the group they had could get it done, they didn't. I saw the potential of a Cup team there, but they never got over the hump.

Leafs need to learn from history and others mistakes. Improve the D, the better deal they can make for a stud the better their chances. Even if it's at the expense of some depth up front.

 

[TDotMassive]

Leafs should look at Zadorov in Colorado. Huge mobile tough defensemen, with massive hits and big slapshot. Recently a healthy scratch.

If he's a healthy scratch on another contender, why do we want him when we intend to contend?

 

[Liminality]

Leafs don't need to panic, they simply should have addressed this in the off season. You can win a great number of games but if you leave yourself open to any deficiencies other teams will exploit it. Even inferior talent can win games if they get the lucky bounce or PP to win a game 5-4

Ultimately, I think Babcock is convinced this defense can elevate and succeed based on some of his comments. It might even be him behind the scenes suggesting it to Dubas and others, I don't know, I only speculate. However, I suggest that this is where the GM, President and others have to say "the facts don't lie".

If you want to know what is a concern to your team, find someone to ask honestly (if you can get an answer) from other teams coaches what they tell their team to do against the Leafs. It will be the same right? Try and clog up the middle, don't take penalties and drive hard through their defense.

I recall the Habs of a few years ago that had stellar defense, a great number of shot blockers and the best goalie in the world in Price on top of his game. They made it to the final four once, never addressing their achilles heel, they couldn't score goals, they always believed that the group they had could get it done, they didn't. I saw the potential of a Cup team there, but they never got over the hump.

Leafs need to learn from history and others mistakes. Improve the D, the better deal they can make for a stud the better their chances. Even if it's at the expense of some depth up front.

I don't think you can force these fixes though. If there wasn't any good enough options then I'm glad they stuck with what they got. No need to overpay and weaken your chances overall in the long run.

 

[frog]

If he's a healthy scratch on another contender, why do we want him when we intend to contend?

Huge upgrade on Ozhiganov. And regardless of healthy scratch Zadorov is an NHL defensemen. Still could be a #3 or #4.

 

[IPS]

Huge upgrade on Ozhiganov. And regardless of healthy scratch Zadorov is an NHL defensemen. Still could be a #3 or #4.

I think you're being a little optimistic here.

If Zadarov can't cut it for Colorado (their defense is worse than ours) what makes you think he's going to cut it here?

 

[Nithoniniel]

The issue the last while isn't personnel, especially not on defense. It's been that our forwards continue to take shortcuts. They don't support correctly, they cheat for offense, and they take make high-risk, medium-reward decisions consistently.

It's infuriating, because we are talented enough that we shouldn't need to take any shortcuts to create offense. They are playing overconfident.

 

[Leafsfan74]

I don't think you can force these fixes though. If there wasn't any good enough options then I'm glad they stuck with what they got. No need to overpay and weaken your chances overall in the long run.

This is where this deadline should provide some value. There will be sellers, and there should be a few steady defenseman on the market. Dubas and his team have to do their homework and work the phones.

 

[IPS]

The issue the last while isn't personnel, especially not on defense. It's been that our forwards continue to take shortcuts. They don't support correctly, they cheat for offense, and they take make high-risk, medium-reward decisions consistently.

It's infuriating, because we are talented enough that we shouldn't need to take any shortcuts to create offense. They are playing overconfident.

Is it though? Seems like the coaching staff is utilizing a very obvious strength of our forwards. That "cheating" creates a ton of high danger chances off the rush.

 

[TDotMassive]

This trade would still leave a hole on defense, but it's certainly not awful... It has us trading our 5-7th best forward to turn our questionable #3-4 defenseman into a #1, while only taking on an extra 2-3 million dollar on the cap. Of course we do that. We could fill Zaitsev's hole fairly easily.

This trade has some implications, but is totally workable if not fantastic for us. Don't know where you get "brutal" from at all.

I would rather do Zaitsev + 1st + 2nd or something like that... maybe throw in Connor Brown, but not Kappy, we have yet to see his potential. Pietrangelo has 1 more year after this, at $6.5m cap hit, so I don't mind the deal. #1D for Rielly at least for this year and next, if it's Zaitsev + Brown + 1st + 2nd then cap hit is basically even both ways. I would potentially even add a mid-level prospect to that trade, like Timashov, Rasanen or Engvall into that mix.

Pietrangelo for Zaistev, Brown, 1st, 2nd, Engvall. Maybe that get's it done, it would at least be a neutral cap move.