Speculation: Leafs need defensive help to contend

wam_raven

Registered User
Mar 2, 2007
211
33
One or two players won't do it, the Leafs have drafted a core of soft players. No matter how skilled they are, the NHL will remain a game for hard men, especially towards the end of the year and playoffs.

Auston Matthews grew up in the US hockey system. No hitting. He then played in Switzerland. Even less hitting. This was touched on during one of the intermissions last night... Auston Matthews does not know how to give or take a hit, and after 20 years isn't going to learn at this level, he will always be on the softer side.

Marner and Nylander speak for themselves. As do Gardiner/Reilly.

Our toughest players last year were Polak and Komarov. You expect to do better against the Bruins without them?

Sadly I don't see the Leafs being able to contend for anything unless one of Matthews/Marner is dealt. And not for skill. For depth toughness at both positions. Solve the cap and soft problem at once.
 
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mallory67

Registered User
Jul 2, 2015
2,581
921
North Carolina
One or two players won't do it, the Leafs have drafted a core of soft players. No matter how skilled they are, the NHL will remain a game for hard men, especially towards the end of the year and playoffs.

Auston Matthews grew up in the US hockey system. No hitting. He then played in Switzerland. Even less hitting. This was touched on during one of the intermissions last night... Auston Matthews does not know how to give or take a hit, and after 20 years isn't going to learn at this level, he will always be on the softer side.

Marner and Nylander speak for themselves. As do Gardiner/Reilly.

Our toughest players last year were Polak and Komarov. You expect to do better against the Bruins without them?

Sadly I don't see the Leafs being able to contend for anything unless one of Matthews/Marner is dealt.

Is that you Don?
 

Wafflewhipper

Registered User
Jan 18, 2014
14,114
5,694
One or two players won't do it, the Leafs have drafted a core of soft players. No matter how skilled they are, the NHL will remain a game for hard men, especially towards the end of the year and playoffs.

Auston Matthews grew up in the US hockey system. No hitting. He then played in Switzerland. Even less hitting. This was touched on during one of the intermissions last night... Auston Matthews does not know how to give or take a hit, and after 20 years isn't going to learn at this level, he will always be on the softer side.

Marner and Nylander speak for themselves. As do Gardiner/Reilly.

Our toughest players last year were Polak and Komarov. You expect to do better against the Bruins without them?

Sadly I don't see the Leafs being able to contend for anything unless one of Matthews/Marner is dealt. And not for skill. For depth toughness at both positions. Solve the cap and soft problem at once.

Go shake yer pillow!
 

ULF_55

Moderator
Feb 27, 2002
83,743
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I'd be okay if they gave the Blues a boat load of futures for Pietrangelo.
If it took multiple 1st. rounders I'd probably bite the bullet.
(Think Ducks win their Cup without Pronger?)

Really, next 5 years are probably the best for making a run at it.

Ask the Hawks if they'd give back the Cups to be a contender today?

Having won the Cups >>>>> contender

This year:
Rielly - Pietrangelo
Gardiner - Zaitsev
Dermott - Hainsey
Ozhiganov

Next year:
Rielly - Pietrangelo
Dermott - Zaitsev
Rosen - Ozhiganov
Liljegren

Following year:
Rielly - Pietrangelo (NMC)
Dermott - Zaitsev
Sandin - Liljegren
Rosen
 
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The Podium

Registered User
Feb 19, 2010
22,846
10,014
Toronto
They Leafs can do a shuffle of their D a bit.

Kapanen + Zaitsev for Montour +

Gardiner for Myers

Save cap hit on Montour, Myers is likely a cheaper FA signing than Gardiner

Rielly - Myers
Dermott - Montour
Hainsey - Oz

Still not stellar, but I think a 2nd pairing of Dermott - Montour would be solid and cheap.

Going into the offseason, start talks with St. Louis of Pietrangelo, if he is willing to sign here at a McDonagh type contract then make the trade.

Rielly - Peitrangelo
Dermott - Montour
Borgman/Rosen - Oz

If not, than can re-sign Myers on a 3x5mill or something
 

Menzinger

Kessel4LadyByng
Apr 24, 2014
40,973
32,364
St. Paul, MN
One or two players won't do it, the Leafs have drafted a core of soft players. No matter how skilled they are, the NHL will remain a game for hard men, especially towards the end of the year and playoffs.

Auston Matthews grew up in the US hockey system. No hitting. He then played in Switzerland. Even less hitting. This was touched on during one of the intermissions last night... Auston Matthews does not know how to give or take a hit, and after 20 years isn't going to learn at this level, he will always be on the softer side.

Marner and Nylander speak for themselves. As do Gardiner/Reilly.

Our toughest players last year were Polak and Komarov. You expect to do better against the Bruins without them?

Sadly I don't see the Leafs being able to contend for anything unless one of Matthews/Marner is dealt. And not for skill. For depth toughness at both positions. Solve the cap and soft problem at once.

A take that’s hotter than the sun.
 

weems

Registered User
Jul 3, 2008
17,910
11,152
One or two players won't do it, the Leafs have drafted a core of soft players. No matter how skilled they are, the NHL will remain a game for hard men, especially towards the end of the year and playoffs.

Auston Matthews grew up in the US hockey system. No hitting. He then played in Switzerland. Even less hitting. This was touched on during one of the intermissions last night... Auston Matthews does not know how to give or take a hit, and after 20 years isn't going to learn at this level, he will always be on the softer side.

Marner and Nylander speak for themselves. As do Gardiner/Reilly.

Our toughest players last year were Polak and Komarov. You expect to do better against the Bruins without them?

Sadly I don't see the Leafs being able to contend for anything unless one of Matthews/Marner is dealt. And not for skill. For depth toughness at both positions. Solve the cap and soft problem at once.

I'd be interested in hearing some of your idea's of trading Matthews/Marner for "depth toughness".

Throw out a few scenarios!
 

ITM

As Long As It Takes
Jan 26, 2012
4,536
2,509
Gotta give something to get something of value

No doubt. But that place of strength we occupy is deceptively strong. We have Hyman and Kapanen that can play a chippy game when needed. We know Marner's all about (supreme) skill and Nylander's game is I suspect still developing. Marleau is a year or two away from retirement, which leaves Johnsson, Brown, maybe Grundstrom...

We've improved year over year in the regular season, but it's our post-season that's going to dictate ongoing lineup changes. And I'm not so sure we can afford to give Kapanen to get Pietrangelo. It may be more modest moves are what's required. The obvious benefit being, we're giving less to shore up places of need i.e. a physical compliment to our club throughout the lineup.

I like AP...Just like him a whole lot more as a potential UFA signing.
 

CantLoseWithMatthews

Registered User
Sep 28, 2015
49,550
59,135
One or two players won't do it, the Leafs have drafted a core of soft players. No matter how skilled they are, the NHL will remain a game for hard men, especially towards the end of the year and playoffs.

Auston Matthews grew up in the US hockey system. No hitting. He then played in Switzerland. Even less hitting. This was touched on during one of the intermissions last night... Auston Matthews does not know how to give or take a hit, and after 20 years isn't going to learn at this level, he will always be on the softer side.

Marner and Nylander speak for themselves. As do Gardiner/Reilly.

Our toughest players last year were Polak and Komarov. You expect to do better against the Bruins without them?

Sadly I don't see the Leafs being able to contend for anything unless one of Matthews/Marner is dealt. And not for skill. For depth toughness at both positions. Solve the cap and soft problem at once.
are you Chiarelli? Trading skill for toughness is the perfect way to build a losing team
 
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BoredBrandonPridham

Registered User
Aug 9, 2011
7,573
4,061
I'd be okay if they gave the Blues a boat load of futures for Pietrangelo.
If it took multiple 1st. rounders I'd probably bite the bullet.
(Think Ducks win their Cup without Pronger?)

Really, next 5 years are probably the best for making a run at it.

Ask the Hawks if they'd give back the Cups to be a contender today?

Having won the Cups >>>>> contender

This year:
Rielly - Pietrangelo
Gardiner - Zaitsev
Dermott - Hainsey
Ozhiganov

Next year:
Rielly - Pietrangelo
Dermott - Zaitsev
Rosen - Ozhiganov
Liljegren

Following year:
Rielly - Pietrangelo (NMC)
Dermott - Zaitsev
Sandin - Liljegren
Rosen

In about 3 seasons we could pull something like that if Lilly/Sandin aren’t panning out, but we’ll need the cap to inflate beyond next years contracts first.
 

Ziggdiezan

Registered User
Apr 10, 2015
10,847
5,676
I'd be okay if they gave the Blues a boat load of futures for Pietrangelo.
If it took multiple 1st. rounders I'd probably bite the bullet.
(Think Ducks win their Cup without Pronger?)

Really, next 5 years are probably the best for making a run at it.

Ask the Hawks if they'd give back the Cups to be a contender today?

Having won the Cups >>>>> contender

This year:
Rielly - Pietrangelo
Gardiner - Zaitsev
Dermott - Hainsey
Ozhiganov

Next year:
Rielly - Pietrangelo
Dermott - Zaitsev
Rosen - Ozhiganov
Liljegren

Following year:
Rielly - Pietrangelo (NMC)
Dermott - Zaitsev
Sandin - Liljegren
Rosen
I dont think the leafs can afford to resign a 30 year old UFA Pietrangelo so I would count on him walking in 1.5 years time.

I just dont see how the leafs keep Zaitsev, resign Pietrangelo, assuming the leafs also sign Marner and Matthews
 
Oct 18, 2010
2,662
284
Don't worry, the Leafs will whoop on some weak teams and we can go back to pretending that everything is fine. Until the playoffs of course.
 

kevsh

Registered User
Nov 28, 2018
3,200
4,345
If Detroit falls out of the playoff picture why not target Kronwall and/or Bertuzzi?

Kronwall is retiring, M-NMC so he may not be willing to move to Toronto for a few months. Kronwall shoots left so there's that but ... if Babcock could live with one of Kronwall, Gardiner or Reilly shifting to the right side ...

I'll assume Bertuzzi would be very tough to pry away as he's young, producing and still has term on a solid contract, just depends on where the Wings see themselves? I'd fully expect Ken to laugh out loud, but I'd still ask.
 

JamieG19

Registered User
Dec 8, 2017
505
352
Hasn’t the team proven they can play good defense? Look at the season at a whole.

Being good enough defensively is a team thing not just looking at the individual ability of each defenseman.

Look at some of the defense corps to win the Cup or make the finals.

Pitts and Vegas...not that great.
 

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