McKenzie: Leafs, Muzzin talking extension

[Habs Halifax]

The to do list might not be as big as people thought especially if they can get Muzzin signed.

Holl has really been a pleasant surprise, and Sandin looks promising, granted it's only been 10 games for Sandin but it's a promising start.

If Holl and Sandin can keep this up, it's possible they could be looking for 1 top 4 guy, and then MAYBE a depth guy to. push down Marincin

With all due respect, Leafs need to shore up that D with proven talent. Holl looking good only means he is a good depth piece. Sandin is a good one but more maturing required yet. Need a stud for him to play with so he is sheltered a bit.

What is the point? You want to be a cup contender, not a playoff pretender right? The to do list is big if you want to improve your team D. I don't have to tell you guys that the playoffs are a different game when you get in

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

With all due respect, Leafs need to shore up that D with proven talent. Holl looking good only means he is a good depth piece. Sandin is a good one but more maturing required yet. Need a stud for him to play with so he is sheltered a bit.

What is the point? You want to be a cup contender, not a playoff pretender right? The to do list is big if you want to improve your team D. I don't have to tell you guys that the playoffs are a different game when you get in

I don't know that they need a "Stud" because when I thinkof that I think of Pietreangelo and while I would certainly take him, I dont think he's the caliber that's nneeded.

I'm thinking a trade for a Larsson, or a Dumba, or Brodin Petry

And then maybe a Hamonic, or Dillion, or Brodie, or Scandella in free agency.

A stud #1 D would be nice but it's not NEEDED.

 

[Uncle Scrooge]

Muzzin stays, Barrie walks. I think that's how it'll go.

Jake does compliment the group of young dmen pretty well, both in experience and the way he plays.

Im thinking something like 5 years 6M per.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I don't know that they need a "Stud" because when I thinkof that I think of Pietreangelo and while I would certainly take him, I dont think he's the caliber that's nneeded.

I'm thinking a trade for a Larsson, or a Dumba, or Brodin Petry

And then maybe a Hamonic, or Dillion, or Brodie, or Scandella in free agency.

A stud #1 D would be nice but it's not NEEDED.

Actually, Pietrangelo is exactly what you need IMO. Problem is cap space. If you can get Muzzin on a team friendly deal and still fit in Pietrangelo cause you unloaded Kapanen, that would be ideal. Would both Muzzin and Pietrangelo leave money on the table? It's possible

Rielly / Pietrangelo
Sandin / Muzzin
Dermott / Holl

The other option is... However, Who is more willing to sign a team friendly deal? Barrie or Muzzin?

Sandin / Pietrangelo
Rielly / Barrie
Dermott / Holl

Leafs should dangle Kapanen for the Rangers goalie and a pick. Might be good insurance down the road if Andersen ask for too much

 

[koyvoo]

I can’t see him not getting some team to pony up for 6 years of the leafs aren’t willing to go over 4 years. At his age, term is huge. Could be his last big payday.

 

[TheImpatientPanther]

Who is more likely to be re-signed out of Rielly and Andersen?
Keep hearing some of the TOR media floating the idea of re-signing Muzzin, promoting Dermott and Sandin while being open to moving Rielly for a RD?

 

[Kamiccolo]

Actually, Pietrangelo is exactly what you need IMO. Problem is cap space. If you can get Muzzin on a team friendly deal and still fit in Pietrangelo cause you unloaded Kapanen, that would be ideal. Would both Muzzin and Pietrangelo leave money on the table? It's possible

Rielly / Pietrangelo
Sandin / Muzzin
Dermott / Holl

The other option is... However, Who is more willing to sign a team friendly deal? Barrie or Muzzin?

Sandin / Pietrangelo
Rielly / Barrie
Dermott / Holl

If the Leafs had D like that they are the best team in the league. What they need is to get healthy more than anything. And Sandin is really good. One of the most ready prospects I have ever witnessed on the Leafs. People are under selling him a lot.

Every team has holes. There is no reason they can't win with their current team, they just need to be healthy when it counts. And it helps if Freddy plays like he can too.

 

[Kamiccolo]

Who is more likely to be re-signed out of Rielly and Andersen?
Keep hearing some of the TOR media floating the idea of re-signing Muzzin, promoting Dermott and Sandin while being open to moving Rielly for a RD?

Welcome to TO media where in the past 6 months we've heard Matthews, Marner, Nylander.. Literally everyone should be traded.

Real answer is Rielly. Andersen is not a goalie you pay like some of these guys have been paid, and the rumor is he wants that. Wouldn't even give him 8M and I think he gets it from someone. That is unless he overcomes his playoff demons.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

Who is more likely to be re-signed out of Rielly and Andersen?
Keep hearing some of the TOR media floating the idea of re-signing Muzzin, promoting Dermott and Sandin while being open to moving Rielly for a RD?

Havent heard any talk of trading Rielly yet but if we sign Muzzin back it probably honestly entirely depends on just how good Sandin ends up being.

 

[TheImpatientPanther]

Welcome to TO media where in the past 6 months we've heard Matthews, Marner, Nylander.. Literally everyone should be traded.

Real answer is Rielly. Andersen is not a goalie you pay like some of these guys have been paid, and the rumor is he wants that. Wouldn't even give him 8M and I think he gets it from someone. That is unless he overcomes his playoff demons.

Havent heard any talk of trading Rielly yet but if we sign Muzzin back it probably honestly entirely depends on just how good Sandin ends up being.

I hear both of you, the obvious choice is Rielly but think the logic was move him in offseason to recoup a 1st and a D prospect or RD of similar value. Ride out Andersen as a pure rental and make a move in his UFA year to secure your next goalie.

Think the guy suggesting it was really high on Sandin though.
Didnt realize Andersen was asking for $8 mil a year though.

Longterm D would be this? Just curious how they fit Muzzin and Rielly and make it all work with Sandin and the other LD long term.

Sandin - Rielly trade/UFA signing
Muzzin - Dermott
Holl - Lillypad

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Actually, Pietrangelo is exactly what you need IMO. Problem is cap space. If you can get Muzzin on a team friendly deal and still fit in Pietrangelo cause you unloaded Kapanen, that would be ideal. Would both Muzzin and Pietrangelo leave money on the table? It's possible

Rielly / Pietrangelo
Sandin / Muzzin
Dermott / Holl

The other option is... However, Who is more willing to sign a team friendly deal? Barrie or Muzzin?

Sandin / Pietrangelo
Rielly / Barrie
Dermott / Holl

Leafs should dangle Kapanen for the Rangers goalie and a pick. Might be good insurance down the road if Andersen ask for too much

I mean if he wants to do that believe me I'm ALL for it.

I just think that a combo of let's say Larsson and Hamonic would also do it.

As for those Leafs, Rangers rumors those are real strange to me.

We certainly need a backup but while Freddie has struggled the past 3 weeks or so, he's a top 10 goalie in the NHL and has been for a while.

He got a 30th overall pick and a 2017 2nd.

Now a backup who hasn't even done what Freddie had done when he was traded gets a top 9 forward?

Are you sure because that doesn't add up.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Who is more likely to be re-signed out of Rielly and Andersen?
Keep hearing some of the TOR media floating the idea of re-signing Muzzin, promoting Dermott and Sandin while being open to moving Rielly for a RD?

You have not heard that from anyone with credibility

 

[Habs Halifax]

I mean if he wants to do that believe me I'm ALL for it.

I just think that a combo of let's say Larsson and Hamonic would also do it.

As for those Leafs, Rangers rumors those are real strange to me.

We certainly need a backup but while Freddie has struggled the past 3 weeks or so, he's a top 10 goalie in the NHL and has been for a while.

He got a 30th overall pick and a 2017 2nd.

Now a backup who hasn't even done what Freddie had done when he was traded gets a top 9 forward?

Are you sure because that doesn't add up.

I do believe Andersen is a top 10 goalie and some can make an argument he is a fringe top 5. You know what's funny? Andersen makes your D look good on certain nights and when the back-up plays, the team D looks worse. Not all the time but the trend is there. Leafs blaming their back up is the same as the Habs blaming our back-up. Team D is the problem for both teams!

Does Andersen leave money on the table too? Who knows but I think he ask for $8M ish. Top 10 goalie rates of $4M-$7M is in the past. So if he ask for too much and you don't have the cap space, what is the plan B? Go get a young goalie now for insurance

 

[Kamiccolo]

I hear both of you, the obvious choice is Rielly but think the logic was move him in offseason to recoup a 1st and a D prospect or RD of similar value. Ride out Andersen as a pure rental and make a move in his UFA year to secure your next goalie.

Think the guy suggesting it was really high on Sandin though.
Didnt realize Andersen was asking for $8 mil a year though.

Longterm D would be this? Just curious how they fit Muzzin and Rielly and make it all work with Sandin and the other LD long term.

Sandin - Rielly trade/UFA signing
Muzzin - Dermott
Holl - Lillypad

I'm not about to predict anything. If they sign Muzzin, I assume the only long term locks are Sandin, Muzzin and Rielly. Dermott is a LD and might go for a RD to balance out the D at some point. Liljegren, I don't know. He is very promising but I wonder if the Leafs use him in a package to get someone further along in development rather than wait 2-3 years for him to be a top 4 D.

You forgot Holl as well who has been good for us. At worst he'll be in a bottom pairing role, but wouldn't be surprised if they keep the Muzzin - Holl pairing next year as it has been good.

They need to get a RD in trade. Pieces to use are one of Kerfoot / Johnsson / Kapanene, Dermott, draft picks and prospects. I think that is a pretty decent package to do a Muzzin type trade for a RD.

 

[Kamiccolo]

I do believe Andersen is a top 10 goalie and some can make an argument he is a fringe top 5. You know what's funny? Andersen makes your D look good on certain nights and when the back-up plays, the team D looks worse. Not all the time but the trend is there. Leafs blaming their back up is the same as the Habs blaming our back-up. Team D is the problem for both teams!

Does Andersen leave money on the table too? Who knows but I think he ask for $8M ish. Top 10 goalie rates of $4M-$7M is in the past. So if he ask for too much and you don't have the cap space, what is the plan B? Go get a young goalie now for insurance

Under Keefe the numbers have been much improved across the board. It only looks the same in raw stats because Freddy went into a slump and let in 5 goals for like 6 games in a row. And by slump, I mean getting beat by routine shots. I don't buy the defense argument and never have. I watch tons of other teams and all of them have break downs and run around in their end a lot.

That's not the strength of the D anyways. The D is strong the other way, which is why we sit close to 4 GF a game.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Under Keefe the numbers have been much improved across the board. It only looks the same in raw stats because Freddy went into a slump and let in 5 goals for like 6 games in a row. And by slump, I mean getting beat by routine shots. I don't buy the defense argument and never have. I watch tons of other teams and all of them have break downs and run around in their end a lot.

That's not the strength of the D anyways. The D is strong the other way, which is why we sit close to 4 GF a game.

A good regular season team gets you in the playoffs. Then the game changes. Grit and team D is important and offensive dries up. Leafs have a very dangerous offensive team and we all know that. But other teams have offensive too but a better team D. You know what I am talking about. Good luck winning a cup with the Pens (Crosby/Malkin) model. Look no further than the Bruins who have a complete roster with offense, defense, and goaltending.

Freddy is probably mentality tired from usage and how many shots he gets per game. Price has been going through this with his entire career with the Habs lol. It's not a good situation for any goalie when the team D in front of them is below average. The top 10/top 5 goalies can shelter things a bit but only to a certain degree.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

I do believe Andersen is a top 10 goalie and some can make an argument he is a fringe top 5. You know what's funny? Andersen makes your D look good on certain nights and when the back-up plays, the team D looks worse. Not all the time but the trend is there. Leafs blaming their back up is the same as the Habs blaming our back-up. Team D is the problem for both teams!

Does Andersen leave money on the table too? Who knows but I think he ask for $8M ish. Top 10 goalie rates of $4M-$7M is in the past. So if he ask for too much and you don't have the cap space, what is the plan B? Go get a young goalie now for insurance

I mean when Hutch is the backup, you blame the backup.

A decent backup doesn't blow a 3 goal lead in the 3rd to Montreal,

a decent backup doesn't lose in regulation after being up by 2 on Washington that needs to get to OT at least.

A decent backup doesn't lose to Buffalo after being up by 2.

A decent backup doesn't need OT and an own goal to beat NJ.


Leafs do need a backup, I just have a hard time believing a top 10 goalie can go for picks and a backup gets a top 9 forward.

Doesn't make sense.

 

[TheImpatientPanther]

I'm not about to predict anything. If they sign Muzzin, I assume the only long term locks are Sandin, Muzzin and Rielly. Dermott is a LD and might go for a RD to balance out the D at some point. Liljegren, I don't know. He is very promising but I wonder if the Leafs use him in a package to get someone further along in development rather than wait 2-3 years for him to be a top 4 D.

You forgot Holl as well who has been good for us. At worst he'll be in a bottom pairing role, but wouldn't be surprised if they keep the Muzzin - Holl pairing next year as it has been good.

They need to get a RD in trade. Pieces to use are one of Kerfoot / Johnsson / Kapanene, Dermott, draft picks and prospects. I think that is a pretty decent package to do a Muzzin type trade for a RD.

I got Holl at the bottom pair there.
Ya this was the logic that you have your LD somewhat figured out if you re-sign Muzzin and Sandin pans out to a Rielly like replica. Yes Dermott has that LD/RD versatility but it does make some sense to use one of your more valuable pieces in Rielly to get a comparable RD or good package to draft/develop.

Just figured I'd ask and see what some Leaf fans thought. Appreciate it, go Panthers go!

 

[Habs Halifax]

I mean when Hutch is the backup, you blame the backup.

A decent backup blow a 3 goal lead in the 3rd to Montreal, a decent backup doesn't lose in regulation after being up by 2 on Washington that needs to get to OT at least.

A decent backup doesn't lose to Buffalo after being up by 2.

A decent backup doesn't need OT and an own goal to beat NJ.


Leafs do need a backup, I just have a hard time believing a top 10 goalie can go for picks and a backup gets a top 9 forward.

Doesn't make sense.

Not sure if we are on the same page. Back-up for a top 9 forward? I said the Rangers goalie and a pick for Kapanen. Think about when you made the move to get Andersen. He was certainly more proven than the Rangers young goalie when you acquired him but if you get a decent pick to go along with Kapanen, I would consider it. Let you scouts tell you about the potential the Rangers back-up has.

Seems reasonable that Kapanen is the one moved if you want to create cap space right? It's one of Kapanen, Kerfoot, or Johnson but you need the LW depth it appears. Would the Oilers bite on Kapanen for Larsson? Possible yes but I think they ask for more and you say no right? Moving Kapanen for the value you want or think you deserve is not that easy IMO. I'd move him for a young cheap goalie with some potential and a pick. I think you do need insurance for Andersen in the case he ask for too much when he needs a new contract. If you have no plan B at that point in time, that's a mess and you would have no leverage

 

[Drew311]

5 years x 5.5M is the ballpark i'm thinking. Don't see how he would take any less. Would easily get that on the open market.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Not sure if we are on the same page. Back-up for a top 9 forward? I said the Rangers goalie and a pick for Kapanen. Think about when you made the move to get Andersen. He was certainly more proven than the Rangers young goalie when you acquired him but if you get a decent pick to go along with Kapanen, I would consider it. Let you scouts tell you about the potential the Rangers back-up has.

Seems reasonable that Kapanen is the one moved if you want to create cap space right? It's one of Kapanen, Kerfoot, or Johnson but you need the LW depth it appears. Would the Oilers bite on Kapanen for Larsson? Possible yes but I think they ask for more and you say no right? Moving Kapanen for the value you want or think you deserve is not that easy IMO. I'd move him for a young cheap goalie with some potential and a pick. I think you do need insurance for Andersen in the case he ask for too much when he needs a new contract. If you have no plan B at that point in time, that's a mess and you would have no leverage

Oh I expect one of them to be moved I just expect it to be for a D man, although with Morgs on LTIR until the playoffs they don't neccessarily NEED to move salary to get a d man so perhaps they could move Kap for a backup but still goalies don't get top 9 forwards

 

[Habs Halifax]

Oh I expect one of them to be moved I just expect it to be for a D man, although with Morgs on LTIR until the playoffs they don't neccessarily NEED to move salary to get a d man so perhaps they could move Kap for a backup but still goalies don't get top 9 forwards

No offense, but I doubt you get a proven top 4D for those guys. You will have to add valuable picks on top. Top 4D > Top 9F. And adding quantity to bridge the gap might not work. Proven top 4D is just has hard to acquire as top 2C's.

Anyways, it's nice chatting about it without yelling at each other but we are kind of derailing the thread... Muzzin's contract.

 

[YP44]

Muzzin stays, Barrie walks. I think that's how it'll go.

Jake does compliment the group of young dmen pretty well, both in experience and the way he plays.

Im thinking something like 5 years 6M per.

if he is getting 5 years I don't think he should be at a $6M cap hit

 

[Mickey Marner]

I'm hoping a NMC for the first two years and some front-loaded bonuses can keep it under 5 years, 6 million AAV.

 

[justafan22]

I'm hoping a NMC for the first two years and some front-loaded bonuses can keep it under 5 years, 6 million AAV.

I"d walk away from a 5 year deal.

4 years is the max I'd go. Rather overpay on $$ than term.