Friedman: Leafs in on Giordano, teams also waiting on Lindholm.

[TheDoldrums]

Hey leafs, you keep playing well in the regular season then flaming out in the playoffs. Who do you think will help you beyond game 82?

Probably that 38 year old that's already trending down

Well spotted that a 38 year old is trending down but when you're a previous Norris winner there's a lot of room to fall from your peak while still being an effective

 

[Hockey 4 Life]

They're going out first round. They aren't beating Tampa or Florida.

So is matthews the best player in the league or is Bunting the best rookie. It can't be both.

I'd wait until the deadline before counting out the Leafs.

 

[DFF]

Put Gio and Brodie back together and pretend it’s 2019 and exit the first round p

 

[Tripledeke333]

I think this is actually a great move for the Leafs. You Giordano wants a cup and he would fit right in with Brodie. He is very old, but he has good senses and you gotta think his adrenaline will take over for one last cup run.

I’m no Cap Geek but how can Toronto fit him under the cap? Does Seattle take a contract back or will there be double retention?

 

[bert]

I'd wait until the deadline before counting out the Leafs.

The deadline isn't going to make them a better team than Tampa or Florida. Hate to break it to you. No matter how much Sportsnet and TSN pump the leafs it won't change the fact they are not beating those teams. You understand they do it for clicks right?

 

[Hockey 4 Life]

The deadline isn't going to make them a better team than Tampa or Florida. Hate to break it to you. No matter how much Sportsnet and TSN pump the leafs it won't change the fact they are not beating those teams. You understand they do it for clicks right?

I dont need to follow sportsmen, the game of hockey has been a part of my life for 35 years. Leafs goaltending has been brutal up until 2 games ago. When the leafs are on this year they can play and beat anyone, including Tampa and Florida.

 

[bert]

I dont need to follow sportsmen, the game of hockey has been a part of my life for 35 years. Leafs goaltending has been brutal up until 2 games ago. When the leafs are on this year they can play and beat anyone, including Tampa and Florida.

Delusion. Apparently 35 years of not retaining information.

 

[Hockey 4 Life]

Delusion. Apparently 35 years of not retaining information.

Your ignorant opinion is just that and opinion. You come off more like a jaded ex then a fan of the game, but please allow yourself to be lead around by baseless emotion.

 

[AvroArrow]

The deadline isn't going to make them a better team than Tampa or Florida. Hate to break it to you. No matter how much Sportsnet and TSN pump the leafs it won't change the fact they are not beating those teams. You understand they do it for clicks right?

They just beat Carolina without Matthews/Muzzin and an AHL goalie, they'd be right up there with them when those 2 skaters come back + whatever additions we make.

They don't have to be a better team than either of them, just be the hotter team at the right time. They're not the favorites in either of those match ups but lets not pretend they don't have a chance.

 

[kevsh]

They just beat Carolina

And the Sabres beat the Leafs twice ...

Seriously though, I don't think one game tells us anything, even if that was the Panthers they beat like that. My own opinion is that Toronto has a real shot against a slightly weaker Tampa Bay but Florida, esp. if they add Giroux, will be a nightmare.

Remember this team minus Ekblad was a handful for an over-cap, stacked, veteran-heavy, truly balanced Tampa Bay last summer. They have forward depth, they're physical, skilled and though the Leafs will find the back of the net, the Panthers are the top-scoring team in the league. A really terrible matchup for a Toronto team that has shown absolutely zero ability thus far to elevate their game in the post-season.

So I'll stick with my view that it would be a mistake for Dubas to push the chips in this season. I do hope he sticks with his assessment that he doesn't want to give up another first on a rental, nor any top prospects. Just too bad the Leafs have peaked in a brutal division to get out of, but mortgaging more of the future on a longshot they pull off a big upset doesn't make sense.

 

[AvroArrow]

And the Sabres beat the Leafs twice ...

Seriously though, I don't think one game tells us anything, even if that was the Panthers they beat like that. My own opinion is that Toronto has a real shot against a slightly weaker Tampa Bay but Florida, esp. if they add Giroux, will be a nightmare.

Remember this team minus Ekblad was a handful for an over-cap, stacked, veteran-heavy, truly balanced Tampa Bay last summer. They have forward depth, they're physical, skilled and though the Leafs will find the back of the net, the Panthers are the top-scoring team in the league. A really terrible matchup for a Toronto team that has shown absolutely zero ability thus far to elevate their game in the post-season.

So I'll stick with my view that it would be a mistake for Dubas to push the chips in this season. I do hope he sticks with his assessment that he doesn't want to give up another first on a rental, nor any top prospects. Just too bad the Leafs have peaked in a brutal division to get out of, but mortgaging more of the future on a longshot they pull off a big upset doesn't make sense.

Nice take my post completely out of context, again they beat Carolina without Matthews, Muzzin and an AHL goalie in net. If the Leafs had competent goaltending and by competent I mean just .900 they'd be right up there with Florida, Mrazek has pissed away so many points it's honestly pathetic.

But horrible take, we only have our stars for another 2 years and you want our GM to not try and win when they have literally been a top 5 team in points and point percentage all year long despite having bottom 5 worst goaltending, #1PP and a top 5 PK. Leafs absolutely should be going for it, they have a very realistic shot of beating either Florida/Tampa, it won't be easy but definitely doable. It'll be a shame if they don't even try. It's really not a long shot at all, they are a top 5 team.

Also you're saying the leafs have shown "zero ability to elevate their game in the post-season" yet Florida has an even worse record in the past 5 years ? Only 1 playoff appearance and they lost, Leafs have gone the distance in every single series. Why does that argument not apply to Florida ? Why are we not talking about them showing zero ability to elevate their game in the post-season ?

 

[ER89]

Leafs should definitely trade for him and sign him to a 7 years $7m AAV NMC contract to provide long term stability for their defense.

we aren't the oilers.

 

[ER89]

Hey leafs, you keep playing well in the regular season then flaming out in the playoffs. Who do you think will help you beyond game 82?

Probably that 38 year old that's already trending down

the only thing that can help this team in the playoffs is divine intervention - what's that cost? a few first rounders......

 

[NMacrules]

No thanks on Gio. He is 38 and showing signs of slowing down.

 

[kevsh]

Why are we not talking about them showing zero ability to elevate their game in the post-season

You answered your own question right before this: Florida has only had one playoff appearance and it was against a juggernaut. The Leafs have 5 straight appearances, the last two as favorites and lost both. Against Columbus in 4 of the 5 games they failed to score an even-strength goal. Against a big underdog the Habs they blew a 3-1 series lead. I'd say the pattern is pretty clear.

While I agree they have a strong core and should be contending, it's clear there are too many holes in this year's lineup to fix without severely hurting their chances down the road. I also don't buy that there is a small window for them to win, but by trading more futures Dubas is narrowing that window. Reilly signed an extension, they've got 2 young d-men improving, I believe Matthews will do as most elite players and re-sign with the team that drafted him. Marner likely will too.

I only suggest that given the current state of this team and how incredibly difficult the path will be, it's not the year to sell off more of the future and box themselves into a narrow window to win it all. I'd like to see if Dubas can get another veteran defenceman, but not at the price of a first/top prospect. When summer comes maybe take a shot at someone like Lindholm if Kyle can clear some cap space.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

No thanks on Gio. He is 38 and showing signs of slowing down.

I actually appreciate responses like this. If there is no interest then not worth making offers at all. Better than the, "I don't want him. He is not a good fit. But I'd do it for a 3rd + C prospect"

And yeah, he is slowing down. He is 38 after all. If he was playing like a Norris candidate, I doubt the Flames would have exposed him in the expansion draft. That being said, he is still a good top-4 D-man. May not be a fit for teams just solely looking for physicality but he has done it all on the Kraken this season. Even dropped gloves a few times.

 

[AvroArrow]

You answered your own question right before this: Florida has only had one playoff appearance and it was against a juggernaut. The Leafs have 5 straight appearances, the last two as favorites and lost both. Against Columbus in 4 of the 5 games they failed to score an even-strength goal. Against a big underdog the Habs they blew a 3-1 series lead. I'd say the pattern is pretty clear.

While I agree they have a strong core and should be contending, it's clear there are too many holes in this year's lineup to fix without severely hurting their chances down the road. I also don't buy that there is a small window for them to win, but by trading more futures Dubas is narrowing that window. Reilly signed an extension, they've got 2 young d-men improving, I believe Matthews will do as most elite players and re-sign with the team that drafted him. Marner likely will too.

I only suggest that given the current state of this team and how incredibly difficult the path will be, it's not the year to sell off more of the future and box themselves into a narrow window to win it all. I'd like to see if Dubas can get another veteran defenceman, but not at the price of a first/top prospect. When summer comes maybe take a shot at someone like Lindholm if Kyle can clear some cap space.

That we can agree on, not at the price of a 1st/top prospect, it's believed he is refusing to trade the 1st rounder for a pure rental like Giordano. But he should be looking to upgrade the roster, this team is very capable of beating Florida/Tampa. Even assume it was a 1-8 seeding, by the ECF you would have to go through one of the top teams, CAR/FLA/TB, we just so happen to have to go through one in the 1st round.

I strongly disagree with your idea that there are too many holes. There is only 1 glaring hole which is goaltending, but top 4D and top 6 LW COULD (not necessary) but COULD be upgraded.

Leafs are the 3rd highest scoring team, FLA is 1st

#1PP, #5PK, #5 overall in points, #5 overall in PTS percentage

The weakness has been goaltending and lack of PP opportunities. They have the 4th fewest PP opportunities in the league despite being the 4th best possession team. There is only 1 month this year (November) where we had .900+ svp from our goaltenders, every other month has been well below that.

Also if we learned anything from last years playoffs, anything can happen especially with freak injuries (Tavares) I'm not wishing injuries to anyone but say somehow there's a freak accident and Barkov goes down, the Leafs will now have a significant advantage in that series.

As a top 5 team, you absolutely have to take a shot to win. Not trying would just be pathetic "pack your bags boys we got FLA/TB we'll try again next year with an easier opponent, we're not good enough to compete with them" is essentially what you're suggesting and it's pretty ridiculous and offensive. Just a polite way of saying you stand no chance try again later, and I'm not having that.

 

[BlueBaron]

I am down. The Giordano-Brodie pairing was lights out for years. Could reunite them and have Rielly play with Lyub as a net clearing presence and then get Muzzin back for the playoffs hopefully in better form.

Giordano-Brodie
Rielly-Lyub
Muzzin-Liljegren

Sandin in the press box.

It sucks he or Timmy would lose the playoff experience.i guess injuries will sort that.

 

[Clark4Ever]

I would like this trade to come to fruition, but a first round pick would be an overpayment in my opinion at this stage of his career.

 

[FerrisRox]

No thanks on Gio. He is 38 and showing signs of slowing down.

He is well beyond "showing signs of slowing down." He's slowed down. A lot. The Leafs need to steer clear of him. He is nowhere close to being a difference maker for them.

 

[BlueBaron]

To be fair... there probably isn't enough Brodie to go around...

Rielly & Brodie have been great these past 2 years together.

Want a great shutdown pair? Muzzin and Brodie!

Giordano & Brodie obviously have that long history of Calgary-chemistry.

That being said, you may be able to look at it as a "Tampa mold" for the D... where they have Hedman/McDonagh/Segachev on the left; and nothing too exciting on the right (Cernak, Rutta, plus whomever they get as a deadline addition).

I guess the challenge is... if you figure that Hedman/McDonagh/Serg are similar / probably a bit better than Rielly/Muzzin/Giordano; and that Brodie is similar / probably a bit better than Cernak.... are some combination of Holl/Lyubushkin/Liljegren good enough to fill those last 2 spots?

I'd guess Lyubushkin is the only lock for game 1 of the 3 you listed. Sandin is being forgotten in all this to.

A better question might be who is better on the right, Gio or Muzzin?

 

[Volica]

If I were the Leafs I wouldn't spend many assets, the likelihood of getting out of the Atlantic are already quite low.

 

[AvroArrow]

If I were the Leafs I wouldn't spend many assets, the likelihood of getting out of the Atlantic are already quite low.

Better to take your best shot and fail rather than not try to win at all when you have prime Matthews/Marner/Tavares. Dubas constructed this team to compete/win now, no chance this team doesn't go for it. It's no different than playing against another elite team in the conference finals or cup final, you can't just not try because there's tough competition. Colorado will most likely steamroll the entire West, doesn't mean teams shouldn't try to win.

 

[Ciao]

I actually appreciate responses like this. If there is no interest then not worth making offers at all. Better than the, "I don't want him. He is not a good fit. But I'd do it for a 3rd + C prospect"

And yeah, he is slowing down. He is 38 after all. If he was playing like a Norris candidate, I doubt the Flames would have exposed him in the expansion draft. That being said, he is still a good top-4 D-man. May not be a fit for teams just solely looking for physicality but he has done it all on the Kraken this season. Even dropped gloves a few times.

Add me to the "not interested" list.

 

[Ciao]

if they acquire him in a trade then they will have exclusive negoiating rights I'd rather do that

Exclusives for a 38 y.o. defenceman?