Leafs fire Carlyle II - Carlyle Speaks (Link in post 227)

[showtime8]

Why does it matter? You have a player with elite offensive talent, these players don't grow on trees.

Its Nonis's fault for not surrounding him with better support...playing him with a #3 center who is a 30-40% possession player, of course Kessel will look bad

But don't the elite players make players around them better too?

Are you telling me that Sidney Crosby didn't add at least 10 goals to his linemates in every season he's played? Kunitz was on waivers at one point and then he played with Crosby and added 10 goals to his career best.

The same argument can be made to any elite player in the game.

 

[The CyNick]

Cant believe all the hate...

Kessel is a top 5 nhl offensive talent in the entire league. He's right there with Malkin Crosby Giroux and Stamkos. He's also the most durable out of any of them, he never even misses a game. He's straight up elite, who cares if he had a part in getting rid of randy, he was a bad coach anyways

and he's on the ice for more goals against than for. How is that beneficial?

 

[yubbers]

Kane plays with Richards and Vertsteeg and that is not much better, if better at all, then Bozak and JVR.

Uhhhh

Keith / Seabrook

Phaneuf / Franson

 

[WilliamNylander]

But don't the elite players make players around them better too?

Are you telling me that Sidney Crosby didn't add at least 10 goals to his linemates in every season he's played? Kunitz was on waivers at one point and then he played with Crosby and added 10 goals to his career best.

The same argument can be made to any elite player in the game.

LOOK AT BOZAK

with kessel and without kessel. When he's away from kessel he's replacement level bad, zero offense. Kessel literally carries him offensively.

Kessel is also the reason why toronto is always near the top of the league in offense

 

[The CyNick]

He plays with a 3rd line Centre and 2nd line winger that are just as bad defensively. You put Kane on Bozzy and JVRs wing. Now they're a plus line?

Cmon

It's a flawed team that requires years of building. More reason to move him.

 

[showtime8]

What a terrible comparison. Who was Cheechoo playing with and who does Kessel play with? Come on, man.

Look at how consistent Kessel is too. You're reaching so hard right now

My point is that elite players make players around them better.

When you play on the same line as Joe Thornton (who was elite at one point in his career), he made players around him better.

When Phil has to rely on other players retrieving the puck on a nightly basis so that he can skate along the wing and shoot from the circle. He doesn't come into his own zone and retrieve. He waits at the blueline for something to happen.

 

[WilliamNylander]

and he's on the ice for more goals against than for. How is that beneficial?

That's not all on Kessel...look at his linemates, the D and the system. In boston he had a 65%+ GF with savard, thats crazy good. If you want to blame someone blame his linemates.

 

[leafstilldeath*]

How convenient. Carlyle takes the hit for Nonis' complete and utter failings as a GM.

The more things change, the more they remain the same. Team sucks? Blame the coach.

Not saying I disagree with the move, but there should have been two heads rolling under the chopping block today, not just one.

YUP!

as much as I hate Carlyle's coaching techniques (swarm, turtling, outshot, running players out of town, etc.....)

Nonis has certianly hand-cuffed the leafs big time with bone headed decisions

 

[WilliamNylander]

Anyways...getting off topic.

Randy's time was up anyways, don't think he gets re-hired anywhere either

 

[TOG26]

Uhhhh

Keith / Seabrook

Phaneuf / Franson

I think the better defense is that Kane may be playing with Richards and Versteeg, but their is also a line that contains Sharp, Toews, and Hossa.....

 

[showtime8]

LOOK AT BOZAK

with kessel and without kessel. When he's away from kessel he's replacement level bad, zero offense. Kessel literally carries him offensively.

Kessel is also the reason why toronto is always near the top of the league in offense

Well by that reasoning, he must be part of the reason why they've given up the 5th most goals against because he's a -7, which is 3rd worst on the team.

 

[Gary Batman]

His role is to put up points. He was the best player at the olympics a few months ago.

Everyone else has to pull their weight too.

Clarkson? Bozak? the defense? This team has so so many holes and you guys are going after our only elite player...

His role is not to simply put up points. Every player's role is to help the team in the most meaningful way.

Leafs went on that streak without any significant contribution from Kessel line. This team can score - it is a known fact. Sure, we have injury bug right now. But this team needs players willing to give everything they got, to win. Players who commit to defensive side of the game. That is why it is a TEAM, because you sacrifice individual preferences for a bigger goal. And JvR and Kessel are THE WORST players in NHL in terms of chances that they give up to opposing teams.

Clarkson? You can't expect anything of him. He fails, not because he doesn't put in effort; but because somehow, he doesn't know what to do. The guy WANTS to rush the puck to the net, but he falls halfway through. That is why, it is more frustrating watching our skilled players play because they don't try hard enough.

Our defense isn't the greatest. But they'll be only as good as the help they receive from the forwards. They are not getting a free pass here, but even Shea Weber would struggle here.

 

[The CyNick]

LOOK AT BOZAK

with kessel and without kessel. When he's away from kessel he's replacement level bad, zero offense. Kessel literally carries him offensively.

Kessel is also the reason why toronto is always near the top of the league in offense

and he's a big contributor to us being an inconsistent team with no work eth...hang on I got gassed typing this out. Will try to finish later.

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

and he's a big contributor to us being an inconsistent team with no work eth...hang on I got gassed typing this out. Will try to finish later.

Nice reply.

 

[Muston Atthews]

I think the better defense is that Kane may be playing with Richards and Versteeg, but their is also a line that contains Sharp, Toews, and Hossa.....

Sharp-Toews-Hossa
Kane-Richards-Saad/Versteeg
Keith-Seabrook

vs

Kessel-Bozak-JVR
Lupul-Kadri-Clarkson
Phaneuf-Franson


Must be nice having all that protection playing on the second line. Wherever Phil plays in the line up, the oppositions top shut down line and top d pair line will play against him. Kane gets to play against weaker opponents due to the top shut down line and top d pair line playing against the Toews/Hossa/Sharp line. It helps having depth

 

[StringsAttached]

RC was only half the problem. Our players are living like Rock Gods here in Toronto. Clarkson's still going to get treated like King Saud of Arabia if he puts up 10 points a year. We need to humble them. Maybe egg an house or two.

If we were to trade places with Montreal, Habs fans would be rioting on the streets and burning Kessel mannequins on the street all day, son.

Humble these mothers.

 

[Purity*]

Kane plays with Richards and Vertsteeg and that is not much better, if better at all, then Bozak and JVR.

Forget to add a little context did you???

He only has Sharp-Toews-Hossa playing in front of him doing all the defensive work (along with their bottom-6) while getting 70% offensive-zone starts against much weaker competition, meanwhile, having a defense consisting of Keith/Seabrook/Hjalmarrson playing behind him.

But keep drinking your haterade.

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

Sharp-Toews-Hossa
Kane-Richards-Saad/Versteeg
Keith-Seabrook

vs

Kessel-Bozak-JVR
Lupul-Kadri-Clarkson
Phaneuf-Franson


Must be nice having all that protection playing on the second line. Wherever Phil plays in the line up, the oppositions top shut down line and top d pair line will play against him. Kane gets to play against weaker opponents due to the top shut down line and top d pair line playing against the Toews/Hossa/Sharp line. It helps having depth

If you are trying to prove that Chicago is a better team then Toronto I dont think you will find many arguments against it from anyone.

Kessel also have the benefit of getting away with floating out side our zone waiting for a stretch pass so he can go on a rush. I dont think that is something players on top teams get away with.

 

[Leviathan899]

Why does it matter? You have a player with elite offensive talent, these players don't grow on trees.

Its Nonis's fault for not surrounding him with better support...playing him with a #3 center who is a 30-40% possession player, of course Kessel will look bad

The best player at the Olympics? In what world was this even remotely true? He wouldn't have made team Canada...

 

[The CyNick]

That's not all on Kessel...look at his linemates, the D and the system. In boston he had a 65%+ GF with savard, thats crazy good. If you want to blame someone blame his linemates.

I'm not like you crazy kids with the stats, I just watch the games.

Watch Phil get back on D, he's skating in quicksand

watch him go to a corner, he will literally jump out of the way to avoid any contact with no consideration for what happens with the puck

watch him cheat on break outs

watch him on the bench after a shift. You would think he played a 3 minute shift and did 14 laps of the rink. Meanwhile he only pays in 110 feet of the rink (give or take)

we unfortunately don't have the depth to have the luxury of a one dimensional player like Phil. We need to use him to get assets that teams who compete for Cups have.

 

[Leafidelity]

The best player at the Olympics? In what world was this even remotely true? He wouldn't have made team Canada...

Not even a full calendar year ago...

http://www.cbssports.com/olympics/e...elanne-named-mvp-of-olympic-hockey-tournament

The other individual awards went to Carey Price (Canada) for the best goaltender, Erik Karlsson (Sweden) for the best defenseman and Phil Kessel (USA) for best forward. Those four players were joined by Drew Doughty (Canada) and Mikael Granlund (Finland) on the all-tournament team.

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

The best player at the Olympics? In what world was this even remotely true? He wouldn't have made team Canada...

Did you miss how he destroyed Slovenia and Slovakia?

 

[ACC1224]

The best player at the Olympics? In what world was this even remotely true? He wouldn't have made team Canada...

Let's not get crazy here.

 

[StringsAttached]

Let's not get crazy here.

Team Canada won because it was chalk full of two-way forwards and a great defense - All who could handle a little physical play. I doubt Kessel would have been put on the on the team. If he were he'd probably be used in PP situations or when we had a big lead so he could cheat for breakaways.

 

[TOG26]

Sharp-Toews-Hossa
Kane-Richards-Saad/Versteeg
Keith-Seabrook

vs

Kessel-Bozak-JVR
Lupul-Kadri-Clarkson
Phaneuf-Franson


Must be nice having all that protection playing on the second line. Wherever Phil plays in the line up, the oppositions top shut down line and top d pair line will play against him. Kane gets to play against weaker opponents due to the top shut down line and top d pair line playing against the Toews/Hossa/Sharp line. It helps having depth

Strange thing that depth. But don't worry we will get rid of Kessel, find the magical first line center unicorn, and by himself he will lead the Leafs to victory!!