Speculation: Leafs and Habs interested in Josh Anderson (CBJ).

[mikeyp24]

I have to say, fans from other teams need to "put up or shut up" when it comes to acquiring Nylander. If a GM wants him they either have to trade the Leafs a roster part that addresses their needs of similar value, or they need to go ahead and offer-sheet him a contract that both he will sign and the Leafs won't match and be willing to part with a bundle of draft picks (pretty much assuredly a 1st, 2nd and 3rd). Otherwise there really is nothing to talk about here, Dubas won't just trade him for another team's scraps, because he has no reason to do so; you don't just give away assets you control when you are not forced to do so.

Thats how we feel about Panarin/Bob/Anderson as well. Thank you for being someone not a CBj fan and understanding to put up or shut up. It has gotten stupid around here.

All other Leaf fans follow NoNames example. Give us roster player that improves him or get ready to offersheet.

 

[Viqsi]

Sure, if that package includes a guy like Werenski.

Stop this, okay? Just stop it. This kind of endless ****ing oneupsmanship doesn't accomplish a damn thing. You think we're underestimating Nylander, so you throw in Werenski who we say you're underestimating, so we mention someone like Marner who you think we're underestimating, so you mention et cetera et cetera. It's completely hopelessly stupid and it gets nowhere and just please for the love of G-d just ****ing stop.

 

[NoName]

I agree they have 2 vastly different skill sets. We have more Andersons then Nylander though where as Toronto has more Nylanders and Mathews is really the only Anderson type you have. I wish instead of wasting time with getting point totals for a player who is a goal scorer not a secondary assist scavenger so that we could see who the more more prolific goal scorer is.

Toronto already has guys like Hyman and now Kapanen who are speedy wingers who can kill penalties and excell at doing the mucking and the grinding on top six lines, heck even Kadri has a bit of this (except he can also score 30 goals). Neither of them would be worth giving up a two-time 60 point scoring age 22 winger/ part-time centre in Nylander, not even close.
It is a waste of time for you to propose trades for Nylander where the value is so clearly out of whack. If Columbus wants him on their team either offer-sheet him the amount he wants (in which case be willing to send Toronto your 1st, 2nd and 3rd) or offer Toronto a trade that addresses their actual needs (we have plenty of third-line wingers, thanks) and sends back a player of relatively equal value. Otherwise there is no point going further in speculations here, Dubas obviously isn't going to trade him for pennies on the dollar.

 

[NoName]

Thats how we feel about Panarin/Bob/Anderson as well. Thank you for being someone not a CBj fan and understanding to put up or shut up. It has gotten stupid around here.

All other Leaf fans follow NoNames example. Give us roster player that improves him or get ready to offersheet.

Right... except for the fact that the situations of Toronto and Columbus when it comes to their stars needing contracts are completely different. The difference is Bob, and Panarin are UFAs, they can walk next season to go to anyone and leave Columbus with nothing. If they haven't resigned with Columbus by the off-season, teams can just give them whatever offers they want and not have to give the Jackets anything, no need for an offersheet. Nylander, Marner and Matthews are all RFAs without arbitration rights, which is a world of difference from dealing with UFAs; It means the team has an immense amount of leverage over the player (as we are seeing now) and if anyone wants to offersheet any of them (which can practically only be a max 5-year term since that is how offersheet AAVs are calculated) a boatload of their picks goes back to Toronto. Glossing over this key difference will do you no favors when proposing trades; it won't make Leafs fans willing to agree to trades like yours where the return is vastly less then what the player Toronto is giving up should command and I am sure the actual GMs like Dubas and Kekalainen aren't ignorant enough not to know the difference.

 

[NoName]

Stop this, okay? Just stop it. This kind of endless ****ing oneupsmanship doesn't accomplish a damn thing. You think we're underestimating Nylander, so you throw in Werenski who we say you're underestimating, so we mention someone like Marner who you think we're underestimating, so you mention et cetera et cetera. It's completely hopelessly stupid and it gets nowhere and just please for the love of G-d just ****ing stop.

Then offer-sheet him, offer a decent trade or drop it yourself. The Jacket's aren't getting Nylander for a bottom-6 winger or any other scrap parts, and the Leafs have no reason to sell him for pennies on the dollar because he is a non-arbitration RFA.

Maybe Columbus fans should focus on discussing how they plan to sign their two pending unrestricted free agent superstars? If you don't re-sign them when their contracts are up, you lose them for nothing, unlike the Leafs with their young stars (who are all RFAs without arbitration rights).

 

[Crede777]

Nylander's situation can best be equated to what happened with Ryan Johansen and Jonathan Drouin. All 3 had contentious problems with the front office and threatened to hold out or not report. Also, all 3 were very highly touted young forwards coming off of impressive seasons.

I also suspect Nylander will be eventually moved, like the previous two players, for a defenseman. Both Johansen and Drouin played with their original teams prior to being traded which I also suspect Nylander will do.

As for what Nylander should return, I think the market is pretty well set. We can also probably include Hall with Johansen and Drouin to show the return expected for Nylander even though Hall is in my opinion a tier above the other 3.

All have returned defensemen who were highly regarded, and highly drafted, but who were quite unproven or had significant question marks. This immediately eliminates names such as Jones, Werenski, Provorov, McAvoy, Sergachev, etc. who while young have proven themselves capable of being a top pairing player in the NHL unlike Jones in 2016, Larsson in 2016, and Sergachev in 2017.

If I had to rank the forwards and defensemen, I would say they go:
1. Hall
2. Johansen
3. Drouin

1. Jones
2. Sergachev
3. Larsson

Because I would say Nylander falls somewhere between Johansen and Drouin in terms of what he accomplished last season, I would expect someone between sophomore season Jones and rookie Sergachev.

 

[Cowumbus]

Then offer-sheet him, offer a decent trade or drop it yourself. The Jacket's aren't getting Nylander for a bottom-6 winger or any other scrap parts, and the Leafs have no reason to sell him for pennies on the dollar because he is a non-arbitration RFA.

Maybe Columbus fans should focus on discussing how they plan to sign their two pending unrestricted free agent superstars? If you don't re-sign them when their contracts are up, you lose them for nothing, unlike the Leafs with their young stars (who are all RFAs without arbitration rights).

We aren’t trying to get Nylander. I said if we are trading Anderson away it’s in a package for a player like him. What is so hard to understand about that?

 

[Dr Quincy]

Also just to point out the 3rd liner that isnt worth Nylander even with 9 +'s according to this thread is only behind Mathews and JT on the leafs in goals with 2 less games played. Which for the 2nd year in a row he is atop the cbj goal scoring list. Last year he was only passed by Atkinson and Bread after he was hurt and came back being forced to play 2nd line because Atkinson/Panarin have Kane/Panarin chemistry. The guy is a pure goal scorer. He isnt going to get 25 secondary assists and pad his stats with numbers that dont effect the game but he will directly impact the game by putting the puck in the net.

The kid is physical, has crazy speed, and can finish with the best. The fact that people think he is a 3rd line talent yet somehow are the same people that say Kadri isnt a 3rd line player amazes me. (Meaning Kadri plays the third line because depth/line chemistry not because 3rd line talent just like Anderson who only plays 3rd line because Cam is top line and Torts splits up goal scorers to roll 4 lines)

Should we point out that Kasperi Kapanen has more points than Anderson is only 1 behind Panarin, so that means he's more than fair value for Anderson and only needs a slight plus to get Panarin?

Or do we realize that point totals after 1/10 of the season really aren't all that indicative of value?

Which is it or do the goalposts shift according to which pair we're talking about?

 

[Dr Quincy]

We aren’t trying to get Nylander. I said if we are trading Anderson away it’s in a package for a player like him. What is so hard to understand about that?

What's hard to understand is that you are like "We aren't trading our player for a lesser +. We are trading our lesser player + for a better player."

Any deal that fits your rule is the kind of deal that you are rejecting from others. You don't see the contradiction there?

 

[Multigrain]

They better get it figured out soon. The fact he is not playing has to I would think make his value go down.
Or else make the trade if the Leafs can't afford him.

 

[Cowumbus]

What's hard to understand is that you are like "We aren't trading our player for a lesser +. We are trading our lesser player + for a better player."

Any deal that fits your rule is the kind of deal that you are rejecting from others. You don't see the contradiction there?

It’s not a contradiction. The only reason we would be trading Anderson would be in a package to get a better player in return. If the trade is for an equal player or a lesser player we would rather keep him.

Example when the rangers had Anisimov and Dubinsky. The only way they were going to trade those two was for an upgrade (Nash) Or else they would rather keep them.

 

[NoName]

We aren’t trying to get Nylander. I said if we are trading Anderson away it’s in a package for a player like him. What is so hard to understand about that?

Then in that package Anderson is either just a supplementary part or he just isn't going to be traded, which is fine as well. Columbus doesn't have to trade him away.

As for Toronto, what they clearly need is a top-4 defenceman, Andersson doesn't address that need and I don't think any team gets Nylander unless they are willing to send pack a top-4 dman to the Leafs, because that is the glaring need for the team, and if they can't address it, then they are better off just holding onto Nylander, because you can only trade a player once.

The Habs I would think would be best served to sit pat for now, let their young core develop and then take a run at Panarin if he hits the UFA market this offseason; his top-end scoring talent would do much to reinvent Montreal's top-6, which it turns out does already have some interesting young parts on it, and the Habs do have a lot of cap space right now.

 

[Cowumbus]

Then in that package Anderson is either just a supplementary part or he just isn't going to be traded, which is fine as well. Columbus doesn't have to trade him away.


The Habs I would think would be best served to sit pat for now, let their young core develop and then take a run at Panarin if he hits the UFA market this offseason; his top-end scoring talent would do much to reinvent Montreal's top-6, which it turns out does already have some interesting young parts on it, and the Habs do have a lot of cap space right now.

Yes he is just a part that’s what I’m saying! Savard Anderson and a pick would not be a bad package. I’m not suggesting that though because Savard is our top pairing and only RHD man at the moment; so we cannot trade him away. But like I said, Anderson is in a package if he’s getting traded away.

 

[NoName]

Yes he is just a part that’s what I’m saying! Savard Anderson and a pick would not be a bad package. I’m not suggesting that though because Savard is our top pairing and only RHD man at the moment.

Again though, I look at Toronto's roster and I see that they are strong pretty much everywhere except defense, particularly the right side. They have plenty of wingers (heck they have guys like Lievo and Johnsson sitting out games even without Nylander on the roster), absurd depth down the middle and plenty of third pairing caliber blue liners (Borgman, Holl, Ozhiganov), they need a top-4 guy. Picks and players who are redundant right now don't help the Leafs contend in the playoffs this season or the next. Frankly, if I am Dubas, my position is don't bother calling me about Nylander unless you want to trade a top-4 defenseman. If Columbus is willing to move such a piece then a deal can definitely get done, otherwise the only option if they want Nylander is an offersheet that pays him what he thinks he is worth.

 

[NoName]

They better get it figured out soon. The fact he is not playing has to I would think make his value go down.
Or else make the trade if the Leafs can't afford him.

Why? Let him sit unsigned until December 1 until he faces the choice of either signing the contract the Leafs offered or missing out on an entire year's salary (which from what I have heard, the Leafs offered him in the range of $6-6.5 million). Why shouldn't Dubas just wait? Even if he does intend to trade Nylander down the road, a Nylander on a market value contract is worth more than a Nylander without a contract or even worse, a Nylander on a contract where he is dramatically overpaid. It is in Toronto's interest to just sit and wait. If any team wants to offer-sheet Nylander the kind of contract he is looking to sign in the meantime, they are free to do so.

 

[Cowumbus]

Again though, I look at Toronto's roster and I see that they are strong pretty much everywhere except defense, particularly the right side. They have plenty of wingers (heck they have guys like Lievo and Johnsson sitting out games even without Nylander on the roster), absurd depth down the middle and plenty of third pairing caliber blue liners (Borgman, Holl, Ozhiganov), they need a top-4 guy. Picks and players who are redundant right now don't help the Leafs contend in the playoffs this season or the next. Frankly, if I am Dubas, my position is don't bother calling me about Nylander unless you want to trade a top-4 defenseman. If Columbus is willing to move such a piece then a deal can definitely get done, otherwise the only option if they want Nylander is an offersheet that pays him what he thinks he is worth.

We have a plethora of top4 guys, not RHD which leafs need.

 

[NoName]

We have a plethora of top4 guys, not RHD which leafs need.

That is unfortunate then. Maybe there is a smaller “winger for winger” type trade to be made between bottom 6 players, but given neither that Jackets or the Leafs are looking to sell of and rebuild I don’t see some big marquee trade between the two as being likely. The truth is Montreal may be the better trade partner of the two teams mentioned in the OP; they have cap space and roster holes aplenty and some intriguing parts to trade. Toronto has a very specific need.

 

[Brock Radunske]

The fact that people think that a player like Josh Anderson could ever be the main piece for Nylander is baffling to me.

 

[Viqsi]

What's hard to understand is that you are like "We aren't trading our player for a lesser +. We are trading our lesser player + for a better player."

Any deal that fits your rule is the kind of deal that you are rejecting from others. You don't see the contradiction there?

The flaw in your reasoning is the presumption that there's any desire on our part to do a deal involving Anderson in the first place.

 

[Viqsi]

The fact that people think that a player like Josh Anderson could ever be the main piece for Nylander is baffling to me.

The price for Ryan Johansen is Jordan Eberle.

 

[mikeyp24]

Should we point out that Kasperi Kapanen has more points than Anderson is only 1 behind Panarin, so that means he's more than fair value for Anderson and only needs a slight plus to get Panarin?

Or do we realize that point totals after 1/10 of the season really aren't all that indicative of value?

Which is it or do the goalposts shift according to which pair we're talking about?

I said nothing about points I dont care for total points I said goals.

 

[mikeyp24]

Toronto already has guys like Hyman and now Kapanen who are speedy wingers who can kill penalties and excell at doing the mucking and the grinding on top six lines, heck even Kadri has a bit of this (except he can also score 30 goals). Neither of them would be worth giving up a two-time 60 point scoring age 22 winger/ part-time centre in Nylander, not even close.
It is a waste of time for you to propose trades for Nylander where the value is so clearly out of whack. If Columbus wants him on their team either offer-sheet him the amount he wants (in which case be willing to send Toronto your 1st, 2nd and 3rd) or offer Toronto a trade that addresses their actual needs (we have plenty of third-line wingers, thanks) and sends back a player of relatively equal value. Otherwise there is no point going further in speculations here, Dubas obviously isn't going to trade him for pennies on the dollar.

We arent seeking him TOR is seeking Anderson and thats really all they have on the side of compelling pieces. No cbj fans are saying hey we want Nylander what do we need to offer. Its TOR wanting Anderson and process of elimination its really only Nylander. We are fine keeping anderson and you keep willie.

 

[Dr Quincy]

I said nothing about points I dont care for total points I said goals.

Cool. Kapanen has as many goals as Anderson.

Therefor Kapanen for Anderson is fair. I'll wait while you move the goalposts.

 

[mikeyp24]

Cool. Kapanen has as many goals as Anderson.

Therefor Kapanen for Anderson is fair. I'll wait while you move the goalposts.

Nah we will do Anderson for Marner same goals. Ill follow your lead.

 

[Crede777]

We arent seeking him TOR is seeking Anderson and thats really all they have on the side of compelling pieces. No cbj fans are saying hey we want Nylander what do we need to offer. Its TOR wanting Anderson and process of elimination its really only Nylander. We are fine keeping anderson and you keep willie.

I suppose the question is just how interested are the Leafs in Josh Anderson and if it is enough that they would be willing to give up a player the Jackets would rather have over him.

That said, since Kypreos was completely wrong about the fact that Anderson was/is unhappy, it is unlikely he is right about the Leafs having interest.