Post-Game Talk: Leafs 3, Penguins 2 - Shot: 4 More Years of Jack Mother ******* Johnson

[MrBrightside]

Do the Penguins not have that all of a sudden? Why are you bringing up a Holtby caliber goalie and a top heavy offense when the Penguins have a Holtby caliber goalie and a top heavy offense? If anything, that supports my point that they can shelter a bad 3rd pair.

Are you seriously defending Johnson by using the argument that it's possible to shelter him so he doesn't muck things up more than he would otherwise?

 

[JTG]

JMFJ buy out is
$270k
$1.3mm
$1.3mm
$2mm
$1m
$1m
$1m
$1m

I think we could be able to find a taker for him. Scuderi was worse and we turned him into Daley who was highly serviceable in his time here.

I'd try Johnson as a forward before I bought him out.

 

[Angrrus]

Yup... this.

Toronto's goalie played well too.

Of course a team with Crosby, Kessel and Letang can only win when opposing goalie isn’t playing well.

And only against bad teams. Oh, wait...

 

[Empoleon8771]

There's so much wrong with this post. Johnson doesn't skate particularly well

And I say Johnson does skate well. That's no less correct than you saying he doesn't skate well. Pretty much every scouting report says he skates well, and I can see that with watching him too.

there weren't a lot of other teams bidding for his services,

Yes there were. There were multiple teams in on Johnson last off-season to try and sign him. In fact, the Penguins didn't offer Johnson the most money of any team, I believe I read a team offered him $4 million a year for 3 years.

and the idea that they can just trade 4+ years of this contract no problem is highly questionable.

Oh okay, 3 years of Alzner is fine, but 4 years of Johnson is a no go. Thanks for clearing that up. I guess multiple GMs inquiring about Alzner, when he had 3.5 years left on his deal, was just a mirage then.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Of course a team with Crosby, Kessel and Letang can only win when opposing goalie isn’t playing well.

And only against bad teams. Oh, wait...

it's been like 4 days since we beat Tampa.

 

[EightyOne]

Do the Penguins not have that all of a sudden? Why are you bringing up a Holtby caliber goalie and a top heavy offense when the Penguins have a Holtby caliber goalie and a top heavy offense? If anything, that supports my point that they can shelter a bad 3rd pair.

Because the Pens tenders currently aren't playing league-leader level and the offense stalls out regularly (see last night).

 

[Randy Butternubs]

I didn't get to watch any of it. How were Jugs, Cans, and Blueger?

 

[MrBrightside]

And I say Johnson does skate well. That's no less correct than you saying he doesn't skate well. Pretty much every scouting report says he skates well, and I can see that with watching him too.



Yes there were. There were multiple teams in on Johnson last off-season to try and sign him. In fact, the Penguins didn't offer Johnson the most money of any team, I believe I read a team offered him $4 million a year for 3 years.



Oh okay, 3 years of Alzner is fine, but 4 years of Johnson is a no go. Thanks for clearing that up. I guess multiple GMs inquiring about Alzner, when he had 3.5 years left on his deal, was just a mirage then.

What is the evidence of other teams offering Johnson more money than what the Pens did? And what does Karl Alzner have to do with anything?

 

[Empoleon8771]

Are you seriously defending Johnson by using the argument that it's possible to shelter him so he doesn't muck things up more than he would otherwise?

"I'm not going to bother defending Johnson on here because it's pointless to not hate Johnson on a place that thinks he's the human reincarnation of cancer, but just think about it for a second."

Reading is fun, maybe you should try it. I'm saying that the idea that they'd buy out Johnson is stupid, because teams have won cups with sheltering worse and more expensive defenseman in the past. They're not going to eat 8 years of dead cap space because fans don't like that JR signed a Brooks Orpik clone for too long, when they can win with Johnson on the bottom pair.

What is the evidence of other teams offering Johnson more money than what the Pens did? And what does Karl Alzner have to do with anything?

Seriously? We're talking about the same kind of defenseman, they're PKing defenseman who aren't good puck movers. Alzner has been a trainwreck for the Habs, but teams were still inquiring about him after he cleared waivers because they thought he could help their team. How isn't Alzner a perfect example to bring up here?

 

[Ogrezilla]

I didn't get to watch any of it. How were Jugs, Cans, and Blueger?

good.

 

[Angrrus]

you should go back to that first post I made. It might help you understand in further detail why we lost the game.

hint: it was the second period. The one that I said can't happen against good teams.

A good thing about 2nd periods is - after them there’s always a 3rd.

Which didn’t help in this case. Guess why?

(Hint: “playing well” is meaningless if you don’t score)

 

[Ogrezilla]

A good thing about 2nd periods is - after them there’s always a 3rd.

Which didn’t help in this case. Guess why?

(Hint: “playing well” is meaningless if you don’t score)

you're not going to "win" every period. We won the 1st period. Obviously our best of the night. We lost the 2nd period. Obviously our worst of the night. We played even in the 3rd. Still a good period. Not good enough to overcome the losing 2nd, but we played well in the 3rd.

If this team can consistently play in the range that they played in the 1st and 3rd periods, they are a very good team. They need to stop playing like that 2nd though.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Because the Pens tenders currently aren't playing league-leader level

Murray has consistently played at that level in the playoffs, so I don't see any reason to doubt he will do it again this year. And on Holtby, maybe you should go check out his regular season stats in recent years. His save% both this year, last year and in the last 3 years is virtually the same as Murray's. In the regular season, they've been indistinguishable between each other.

and the offense stalls out regularly (see last night).

And yes, that happens with Washington to. As it does with literally every team.

This year, the Penguins are both better in terms of goals/game and goals against/game than Washington. To bring up Washington as this comparable that the Penguins don't match up to just doesn't make any sense to me. They have the same things that the Capitals have.

 

[Angrrus]

it's been like 4 days since we beat Tampa.

Which was having a terrible night as a team, and on top their goalie couldn’t stop a beach ball.

Not exactly a measuring stick.

Although something I feared did happen: people started waving this win like a flag and using it as evidence that Pens are doing just fine.

Newsflash: they aren’t.

 

[MrBrightside]

"I'm not going to bother defending Johnson on here because it's pointless to not hate Johnson on a place that thinks he's the human reincarnation of cancer, but just think about it for a second."

Reading is fun, maybe you should try it. I'm saying that the idea that they'd buy out Johnson is stupid, because teams have won cups with sheltering worse and more expensive defenseman in the past. They're not going to eat 8 years of dead cap space because fans don't like that JR signed a Brooks Orpik clone for too long, when they can win with Johnson on the bottom pair.



Seriously? We're talking about the same kind of defenseman, they're PKing defenseman who aren't good puck movers. Alzner has been a trainwreck for the Habs, but teams were still inquiring about him after he cleared waivers because they thought he could help their team. How isn't Alzner a perfect example to bring up here?

Gee, maybe because you immediately followed saying that you weren't going to defend Johnson by defending Johnson. "I'm not going to say Green but Green Green Green Green Green Green Green. I really don't know why people keep saying that I'm saying Green."

There are NHL GM's that sign a lot of bad players. The fact that you keep using that as justification for the Pens signing one is bizarre.

 

[EightyOne]

you're not going to "win" every period. We won the 1st period. Obviously our best of the night. We lost the 2nd period. Obviously our worst of the night. We played even in the 3rd. Still a good period. Not good enough to overcome the losing 2nd, but we played well in the 3rd.

If this team can consistently play in the range that they played in the 1st and 3rd periods, they are a very good team. They need to stop playing like that 2nd though.

I think I'm gonna buy 20 of these and mail em to Dana Heinze

 

[Angrrus]

you're not going to "win" every period. We won the 1st period. Obviously our best of the night. We lost the 2nd period. Obviously our worst of the night. We played even in the 3rd. Still a good period. Not good enough to overcome the losing 2nd, but we played well in the 3rd.

If this team can consistently play in the range that they played in the 1st and 3rd periods, they are a very good team. They need to stop playing like that 2nd though.

There are countless ways to console ourselves and to talk ourselves into accepting losses.

One thing doesn’t change though:

It’s a loss.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Gee, maybe because you immediately followed saying that you weren't going to defend Johnson by defending Johnson. "I'm not going to say Green but Green Green Green Green Green Green Green. I really don't know why people keep saying that I'm saying Green."

There are NHL GM's that sign a lot of bad players. The fact that you keep using that as justification for the Pens signing one is bizarre.

I guess reading just isn't your strong suit then. The only "defending" of Johnson I did was saying that he hasn't nearly been as bad as people here say he has been, but talking about that on here is a waste of time. My post was saying that buying out Johnson was an idiotic decision, and I listed a bunch of reasons why it was an idiotic decision. If you get so defensive over that, I don't know what to tell you. Seriously, go back and re-read my post, because you obviously didn't read it the first time. The entire first paragraph was listing out reasons why it was stupid to buy out Johnson.

And for evidence that other teams were in on Johnson, here's some stuff about Montreal apparently wanting to give Johnson $6 million a year from June:

 

[MrBrightside]

I guess reading just isn't your strong suit then. The only "defending" of Johnson I did was saying that he hasn't nearly been as bad as people here say he has been, but talking about that on here is a waste of time. My post was saying that buying out Johnson was an idiotic decision, and I listed a bunch of reasons why it was an idiotic decision. If you get so defensive over that, I don't know what to tell you.

Do others in your life find it persuasive when you repeatedly insult them in the middle of a discussion? I mean, it is one way to go, but typically people graduate from that and move on to arguing their position - but to each his own.

If anyone here is defensive, it is you (and it's certainly not Jack Johnson...badda bing).

 

[Ogrezilla]

There are countless ways to console ourselves and to talk ourselves into accepting losses.

One thing doesn’t change though:

It’s a loss.

of course it's a loss. You are so unwilling to accept me saying anything remotely positive about this team that you are clearly missing what I'm saying. Whatever, go brood if you'd like.

 

[Al Smith]

I didn't get to watch any of it. How were Jugs, Cans, and Blueger?

Your post brought to mind Mother, Jugs & and Speed, the cult favorite with Racquel Welch, Bill Cosby, and Harvey Keitel, but I digress.

Blueger was good, saw some time on the PK.

Jugs was fine; he brings some offense and some good forechecking to the table. He's already shown more of a pulse than Brassard.

It's hard to believe that McCann won't be another ultra-plain - won't hurt/help you too much - vanilla Spaling type center although it's only been two games.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Do others in your life find it persuasive when you repeatedly insult them in the middle of a discussion? I mean, it is one way to go, but typically people graduate from that and move on to arguing their position - but to each his own.

If anyone here is defensive, it is you (and it's certainly not Jack Johnson...badda bing).

I mean, you're intentionally twisting what I was saying to make it easier to argue against. Literally just go read my post and respond to what I said, instead of morphing it into something I specifically said I wasn't doing.

Johnson is what he is. GMs constantly covet those kind of guys, as evidence by the multiple teams being in on him in the off-season, GMs constantly paying guys like Alzner, Orpik and Russell and teams even inquiring about Alzner after he cleared waivers this year. You don't buy him out because you can find a team that will take him. That was the entire point of my post, but that's somehow "defending" Johnson instead of pointing out how GMs operate.

 

[EightyOne]

Murray has consistently played at that level in the playoffs, so I don't see any reason to doubt he will do it again this year. And on Holtby, maybe you should go check out his regular season stats in recent years. His save% both this year, last year and in the last 3 years is virtually the same as Murray's. In the regular season, they've been indistinguishable between each other.



And yes, that happens with Washington to. As it does with literally every team.

This year, the Penguins are both better in terms of goals/game and goals against/game than Washington. To bring up Washington as this comparable that the Penguins don't match up to just doesn't make any sense to me. They have the same things that the Capitals have.

It doesn't matter who I bring up as comparable. It's a hyperbolic example, lol.

The point is, having shitty players and having good players who are doing jack shit, means weak lines aren't going to get hidden well which results in a bad team.

And Murray was not a rock last postseason. A big part of that was our players in front failing him. As they've done all year this year, too.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

JMFJ buy out is
$270k
$1.3mm
$1.3mm
$2mm
$1m
$1m
$1m
$1m

Burying him would be cap hits of

2018-10: $2225000
2019-20: $2175000
2020-21: $2175000
2021-22: $2125000
2022-23: not listed, presumably at least equal to the previous year.

Max retention would be $1625000. You retain anything more palatable than the buyout or burying him. He’d be easier to pay someone to take at around 2M. Seattle and compliance buyouts from the “potential” lockout would be potential points for the other team to get rid of him and his salary starts dropping below his cap hit in 2020-21

 

[Empoleon8771]

It doesn't matter who I bring up as comparable. It's a hyperbolic example, lol.

The point is, having ****ty players and having good players who are doing jack ****, means weak lines aren't going to get hidden well which results in a bad team.

And Murray was not a rock last postseason. A big part of that was our players in front failing him. As they've done all year this year, too.

The Penguins are the 9th best team in the league and are 4 points behind 5th...

If Johnson being on the bottom pair is the worst thing about your team, you team is really damn good.

Burying him would be cap hits of

2018-10: $2225000
2019-20: $2175000
2020-21: $2175000
2021-22: $2125000
2022-23: not listed, presumably at least equal to the previous year.

Max retention would be $1625000. You retain anything more palatable than the buyout or burying him. He’d be easier to pay someone to take at around 2M. Seattle and compliance buyouts from the “potential” lockout would be potential points for the other team to get rid of him and his salary starts dropping below his cap hit in 2020-21

Like I was saying, if you want to get rid of him, retaining $1 million and sending him off somewhere is a dramatically better option than to buy him out. I already think Johnson at $3.25 million is movable, but getting him down to $2.5 million or so just makes it even easier.