Post-Game Talk: Leafs 3, Penguins 2 - Shot: 4 More Years of Jack Mother ******* Johnson

[EightyOne]

The Penguins are the 9th best team in the league and are 4 points behind 5th...

And 6 points from not even being in playoffs.

 

[Ogrezilla]

And 6 points from not even being in playoffs.

so top 1/3, and closer to top 5 than bottom half.

 

[Empoleon8771]

It's hard to believe that McCann won't be another ultra-plain - won't hurt/help you too much - vanilla Spaling type center although it's only been two games.

I don't get this comparison for McCann, his speed seems to bring something that those vanilla type of players didn't bring. He reminds me of a center version of Rust more than another Spaling/Sheahan type of player. I've been using the phrase "speedy sparkplug" to describe him since the first game, I think that suits him well.

I also feel like he hasn't gotten much help in his games with the Penguins so far. Hornqvist hasn't been playing well since he came back from his injury and Pearson has done next to nothing in his last 6 or 7 games. To make it worse, those two are a bad wing duo even when they're playing well, Malkin can't even carry those two to make a good line.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

The Penguins are the 9th best team in the league and are 4 points behind 5th...



Like I was saying, if you want to get rid of him, retaining $1 million and sending him off somewhere is a dramatically better option than to buy him out. I already think Johnson at $3.25 million is movable, but getting him down to $2.5 million or so just makes it even easier.

He’s probably movable in the case of a GM f***ing up badly. Like Scuderi getting Daley, or JR signing him. That’s not something you ever count on happening but it can. He might be movable for a 1st or whatever. You don’t want to do it (especially so early in a long contract and after your GM ran his mouth) but it’s most likely doable. I don’t think he’s movable in a pure or reliable sense. But you get that cap hit lower and I think the odds of someone taking a chance increase or it at least costs less assets. Max retention is 1.625M and 1.3M is the buyout number of years 3 and 4. Johnson at 2M or god forbid 1.625M will be easier to unload.

And then JR gets a f***ing spending limit on free agency defensemen so he can’t one up or repeat this.

 

[BHD]

I can see a buyout (of Johnson) happening by the third year. But that's still couple of years from now.

 

[Al Smith]

I don't get this comparison for McCann, his speed seems to bring something that those vanilla type of players didn't bring. He reminds me of a center version of Rust more than another Spaling/Sheahan type of player. I've been using the phrase "speedy sparkplug" to describe him since the first game, I think that suits him well.

It's early. Those have been my first impressions. Speedy doesn't necessarily mean he'll contribute. Sort of like McKegg. I'd give it 7 -10 games before I start forming more concrete impressions. He's only 22 and may evolve and become a really good 3C. Problem is Pens need someone to contribute right now.

 

[Ogrezilla]

It's early. Those have been my first impressions. Speedy doesn't necessarily mean he'll contribute. Sort of like McKegg. I'd give it 7 -10 games before I start forming more concrete impressions. He's only 22 and may evolve and become a really good 3C. Problem is Pens need someone to contribute right now.

He played at a 33 point pace last year, and is on a 32 point pace this year. McKegg scored at a 12 point pace with us last year.

I'm not really saying anything one way or another in terms of how good he'll be, but so far he's been contributing pretty well as an NHL player.

 

[Empoleon8771]

He’s probably movable in the case of a GM ****ing up badly. Like Scuderi getting Daley, or JR signing him. That’s not something you ever count on happening but it can. He might be movable for a 1st or whatever. You don’t want to do it (especially so early in a long contract and after your GM ran his mouth) but it’s most likely doable. I don’t think he’s movable in a pure or reliable sense. But you get that cap hit lower and I think the odds of someone taking a chance increase or it at least costs less assets. Max retention is 1.625M and 1.3M is the buyout number of years 3 and 4. Johnson at 2M or god forbid 1.625M will be easier to unload.

And then JR gets a ****ing spending limit on free agency defensemen so he can’t one up or repeat this.

See, this is just something I don't agree with. I know what happened with Hunwick last off-season, but I don't view Johnson as someone you have to add to get someone to take. If you retain $750k, Johnson is a valuable piece for you to have on your bottom pair at $2.5 million. If nothing else, he brings value to your PK, which is worth $2.5 million. Hunwick is different because I don't see Hunwick as having any upside to help a team, the extent of what he'll do is be a warm body for you. It doesn't have to do as much with performance as it does with Johnson bringing some sort of tangible positives to the table, when Hunwick is just Riley Sheahan on defense.

This doesn't have to do with what his possession stats look like or how good of a player he is, it has to do with how GMs seemingly view players like him. If Johnson was a free agent after this year, I still think teams would give him more than $2.5 million a year. For Hunwick, I don't know if he would have gotten a contract after the year he had. It's just because physical, PKing bottom pair defensemen are still in demand, even if those guys give terrible advanced stats. I think a good litmus test for how easily you can move Johnson is looking at what Kronwall brings back as a rental and what he gets in free agency.

I can see a buyout (of Johnson) happening by the third year. But that's still couple of years from now.

I think if it goes that far, you just pay Seattle to take Johnson in the expansion draft.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I'm curious how Blueger would look as a lw with Geno.

 

[EightyOne]

Our other shiny new toy, Biggy, had a couple quality TK chest snipes. Coulda helped if he didn't.

 

[Jacob]

McCann’s looked pretty decent to me. He looks like maybe a better skating Bonino.

 

[Empoleon8771]

It's early. Those have been my first impressions. Speedy doesn't necessarily mean he'll contribute. Sort of like McKegg. I'd give it 7 -10 games before I start forming more concrete impressions. He's only 22 and may evolve and become a really good 3C. Problem is Pens need someone to contribute right now.

They have Bjugstad right now though, McCann is just their future 3C. I think you ideally have both McCann and Bjugstad together on the 3rd line, I'm curious to see if Sullivan puts them together.

Speed doesn't necessarily mean he'll contribute, but I feel like speed is a big difference between McCann and Spaling or Sheahan. McCann could end up an Archibald type of player, who basically brought speed and that's about it, but I just didn't think the vanilla, jack of all trades comparison worked for McCann.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Our other shiny new toy, Biggy, had a couple quality TK chest snipes. Coulda helped if he didn't.

I feel like people are way overly critical of "chest snipes". Goalies are pretty good at being in the right spot. We'd all be complaining even more if he was missing the net or passing up those shots.

 

[EightyOne]

I feel like people are way overly critical of "chest snipes". Goalies are pretty good at being in the right spot. We'd all be complaining even more if he was missing the net or passing up those shots.

Not disputing. Lol. One of those and game could change.

 

[Crosbyfan]

Gee, maybe because you immediately followed saying that you weren't going to defend Johnson by defending Johnson. "I'm not going to say Green but Green Green Green Green Green Green Green. I really don't know why people keep saying that I'm saying Green."

There are NHL GM's that sign a lot of bad players. The fact that you keep using that as justification for the Pens signing one is bizarre.

It seems to me he is not defending the contract, or Johnson, but more defending the fact that there are much better ways to deal with it than buying it out.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

I can see a buyout (of Johnson) happening by the third year. But that's still couple of years from now.

By year 3 they’ve got bribing Seattle and the possibility of compliance buyouts from a new cba.

See, this is just something I don't agree with. I know what happened with Hunwick last off-season, but I don't view Johnson as someone you have to add to get someone to take. If you retain $750k, Johnson is a valuable piece for you to have on your bottom pair at $2.5 million. If nothing else, he brings value to your PK, which is worth $2.5 million. Hunwick is different because I don't see Hunwick as having any upside to help a team, the extent of what he'll do is be a warm body for you. It doesn't have to do as much with performance as it does with Johnson bringing some sort of tangible positives to the table, when Hunwick is just Riley Sheahan on defense.

This doesn't have to do with what his possession stats look like or how good of a player he is, it has to do with how GMs seemingly view players like him. If Johnson was a free agent after this year, I still think teams would give him more than $2.5 million a year. For Hunwick, I don't know if he would have gotten a contract after the year he had. It's just because physical, PKing bottom pair defensemen are still in demand, even if those guys give terrible advanced stats.

I don’t think a PK specialist is worth 2.5M and that cap hit doesn’t make him valuable. I could have seen teams getting tricked by his physicality but after this shitshow idk. Other teams would also know the Pens are trying to move a serious problem and that they could get extra out of it. It could happen because it’s the NHL and GMs do stupid things all the time but I wouldn’t count on it. If he hit free agency now, I could see him getting 1-1.5 on a much shorter deal.

I would have rather kept Hunwick. They were treating him like a 7D, the contract would be over after next season, he was only 2.25M... and he spent a lot of this season on LTIR. That and a better return for Sheary would have been so much better, and that’s only partial hindsight.

 

[ronduguayshair]

There is about a 0.0% chance the Penguins buy out Johnson. I'm not going to bother defending Johnson on here because it's pointless to not hate Johnson on a place that thinks he's the human reincarnation of cancer, but just think about it for a second. Johnson today is the same Johnson that has been in the league for the last 3 years. He's a physical bottom pair defenseman that mostly brings value to your PK and can skate well, he's basically a Brooks Orpik 2.0 type of bottom pair defenseman. There were multiple teams in on him when he was a free agent, and GMs constantly pay those guys in free agency (Alzner, Orpik, Russell, ect). In fact, there were teams inquiring about Alzner from the Habs after he cleared waivers this year. Johnson brings a skillset that is constantly coveted by GMs in hockey, which is exactly why JR gave him a 5 year deal last off-season. They might have to retain a little bit of salary, but they could trade him easily if they wanted to.

This doesn't even address that Johnson hasn't been nearly as bad as people here say he has, but having this discussion here is like going into the T_D and telling them their god emperor isn't doing a good job. The Capitals won a cup last year with this as their #4/5 defenseman. The idea of buying out Johnson just makes absolutely no sense to me. And do you know what's funny about the original post pointing out how Johnson got caved last night? He wasn't even the worst Penguins defenseman in terms of getting caved, Pettersson was worse.



No he's not. He's being paid like a fringe #4/5.

Fair enough. Jack Johnson isn't as bad as everyone thinks I agree. I don't think he'll cost us a series.

And it is pointless to talk/complain about it. Why are people discussing more about us not being able to beat Toronto's subtle interference. That's the story. Not Jack Johnson.

 

[ronduguayshair]

There's so much wrong with this post. Johnson doesn't skate particularly well, the fact that other team do dumb stuff doesn't make it acceptable when the Pens do it, there weren't a lot of other teams bidding for his services, and the idea that they can just trade 4+ years of this contract no problem is highly questionable.

But I do agree that they aren't buying him out, at least not anytime soon.

Jack Johnson can skate fine enough. It is his decision making that's suspect. Low IQ player.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Not disputing. Lol. One of those and game could change.

I mean yeah, obviously it'd be nice if one went in

 

[Angrrus]

Thought he worked really hard tonight on the boards.

One would expect a bit more for 5,3 min per year.

 

[Angrrus]

of course it's a loss. You are so unwilling to accept me saying anything remotely positive about this team that you are clearly missing what I'm saying. Whatever, go brood if you'd like.

I believe Pens biggest problem since June 2017 is they have been playing too relaxed and casual.

In this situation, I believe seeking positives after losses will only lead to more casualness and complacency from the players.

I believe negative feedback might shake them up and make them realize just how unacceptable their attitude is. If it’s negative enough.

 

[Burn]

I don't get this comparison for McCann, his speed seems to bring something that those vanilla type of players didn't bring. He reminds me of a center version of Rust more than another Spaling/Sheahan type of player. I've been using the phrase "speedy sparkplug" to describe him since the first game, I think that suits him well.

I also feel like he hasn't gotten much help in his games with the Penguins so far. Hornqvist hasn't been playing well since he came back from his injury and Pearson has done next to nothing in his last 6 or 7 games. To make it worse, those two are a bad wing duo even when they're playing well, Malkin can't even carry those two to make a good line.

McCann has nice upside that may not have been reached yet. Playing with Kessel might bring that out.

TP-McCann-Kessel is a great third line.

 

[ronduguayshair]

I believe Pens biggest problem since June 2017 is they have been playing too relaxed and casual.

In this situation, I believe seeking positives after losses will only lead to more casualness and complacency from the players.

I believe negative feedback might shake them up and make them realize just how unacceptable their attitude is. If it’s negative enough.

So you think you can play a role in the team's performance by opinions on a message board? Great balls of fire.

 

[Ogrezilla]

One would expect a bit more for 5,3 min per year.

he's having a rough stretch for sure coming back from this last concussion. But he's still on pace for 30 goals and like 55 points. Hopefully he can get back to it.

I believe Pens biggest problem since June 2017 is they have been playing too relaxed and casual.

In this situation, I believe seeking positives after losses will only lead to more casualness and complacency from the players.

I believe negative feedback might shake them up and make them realize just how unacceptable their attitude is. If it’s negative enough.

Sure, but my feedback is 100% meaningless. I think we're even saying the same negative here. They are just inconsistent, whether it's attitude or what, I don't know. But they just can't take a period off like they did.

 

[metalan2]

Murray let in three bad to awful goals as well. Played well outside of that, but he is just MAF most of the time now.

Maatta and Johnson are two huge problems, and hopefully it gets better when Schultz comes back.