LD Jake Sanderson - Univ. of North Dakota, NCAA (2020, 5th, OTT) Part 2

[Korpse]

Comparing Sanderson with Guhle...

It's a big difference between both or they are pretty close to each other?

Right now, I don't think they are close. I don't think many felt they were close at the time of the draft and since then Guhle hasn't played a lot of hockey while Sanderson has taken his offensive game to the next level imo.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

Comparing Sanderson with Guhle...

It's a big difference between both or they are pretty close to each other?

Nice try, buddy. We ain't falling for this again.

 

[Dominance]

Comparing Sanderson with Guhle...

It's a big difference between both or they are pretty close to each other?

Now that we’ve had the chance to see both on the same ice at the WJC, they’re essentially the same player. Sanderson seems to have made some big strides with his offensive game this year, though, so it’s fair to say his potential progression is pointed higher.

Back to discussion of how Sanderson will win multiple Norris trophies.

 

[Akrapovince]

Now that we’ve had the chance to see both on the same ice at the WJC, they’re essentially the same player. Sanderson seems to have made some big strides with his offensive game this year, though, so it’s fair to say his potential progression is pointed higher.

Back to discussion of how Sanderson will win multiple Norris trophies.

If he gets a couple years where he’s top ten in voting I’d be pretty happy.

Guhle’s a great prospect, I would have liked to see what Sanderson’s numbers in the Canadian league would look like. Anyone have that chart that compares leagues or has an informed guess?

I know year to year is different but Guhle had similar numbers to Chabot in junior.

 

[Random Comment]

Now that we’ve had the chance to see both on the same ice at the WJC, they’re essentially the same player. Sanderson seems to have made some big strides with his offensive game this year, though, so it’s fair to say his potential progression is pointed higher.

Back to discussion of how Sanderson will win multiple Norris trophies.

Yes they are the same player, except the small side note that Sanderson is …um…more talented.

 

[Dominance]

Yes they are the same player, except the small side note that Sanderson is …um…more talented.

Assuming by “talented” you mean puck skills, I think that’s fair to say, but you’re either underrating Guhle or overrating Sanderson if you mean to suggest it’s a sizeable gap. Very, very similar players beyond that IMO. Both should be good top-4 guys for a long time, and neither should be your 1PPQB.

 

[BondraTime]

There is a sizeable difference between the 2

 

[DrSense]

Assuming by “talented” you mean puck skills, I think that’s fair to say, but you’re either underrating Guhle or overrating Sanderson if you mean to suggest it’s a sizeable gap. Very, very similar players beyond that IMO. Both should be good top-4 guys for a long time, and neither should be your 1PPQB.

I suppose there are similarities, but looking at the end of season rankings by TSN of the top prospects based on polling, Sanderson was the 7th ranked prospect in the world and #2 d-man behind Seider. Guhle was not in the top 35 prospects overall and not amongst the top 10 defenceman. Guhle was more comparable in value and upside to defenders like Mukhamadulin or Dyland Samberg.

So either one player's upside is much higher, or their probability of hitting that upside is. Probably a bit of both. Either way, I don't think we've seen Guhle dominate at any level like Sanderson did late in the year at UND and also at the WJSS, so Sanderon's ranking is likely even higher now after his play at the Showcase this summer.

 

[Random Comment]

Assuming by “talented” you mean puck skills, I think that’s fair to say, but you’re either underrating Guhle or overrating Sanderson if you mean to suggest it’s a sizeable gap. Very, very similar players beyond that IMO. Both should be good top-4 guys for a long time, and neither should be your 1PPQB.

This is on the same level as saying Tyler Boucher is a comparable talent to Brady Tkachuk as prospects. They play the same style but one is just better both in terms of potential and in the now.

 

[Sting]

Assuming by “talented” you mean puck skills, I think that’s fair to say, but you’re either underrating Guhle or overrating Sanderson if you mean to suggest it’s a sizeable gap. Very, very similar players beyond that IMO. Both should be good top-4 guys for a long time, and neither should be your 1PPQB.

Having watched both play a good amount over the past two years, there's a sizeable gap.

The only question mark really is how Guhle has progressed given he hasn't played much lately.

I think one projects as a #1/2 and the other is a solid top 4 option, assuming each hit their ceiling.

 

[TopC0rner]

Now that we’ve had the chance to see both on the same ice at the WJC, they’re essentially the same player. Sanderson seems to have made some big strides with his offensive game this year, though, so it’s fair to say his potential progression is pointed higher.

Back to discussion of how Sanderson will win multiple Norris trophies.

Sanderson has exceptional hockey sense, both offensively and defensively. He can adapt on the spot, almost always take the best decisions with and without the puck. He dictates play when he's on the ice, not because of his physical abilities (which are very good), but due to his cerebral game. From what I've seen, Guhle isn't at that level yet. As a note, I've seen a lot more of Sanderson in the past year because he played more than Guhle and I think he has improved significantly from the WJC.

 

[bsu]

Sanderson >> Guhle

 

[Breakers]

It should be interesting to see how he handles the PP1 this year

PP1 was Pinto, Gucci, Kiersted, Gaber & Adams or essentially the 4 forward and 1 D with Kiersted.
4 of those guys are gone

PP2 was HORRIBLE last year with Sanderson, JBD, Weatherby, Buddy, and Mish
they couldn't score, and they didn't score a goal for 10 games after they came back from Christmas and WJC break.

should be interesting to see how he handles the PP1
It is essentially going to be him and Gaber looking to lead the PP
His ability to walk the walk the line needs work

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

Can't believe you guys fell for that Guhle Sanderson stuff, look at his post history; guy has a record, lol.

It should be interesting to see how he handles the PP1 this year

PP1 was Pinto, Gucci, Kiersted, Gaber & Adams or essentially the 4 forward and 1 D with Kiersted.
4 of those guys are gone

PP2 was HORRIBLE last year with Sanderson, JBD, Weatherby, Buddy, and Mish
they couldn't score, and they didn't score a goal for 10 games after they came back from Christmas and WJC break.

should be interesting to see how he handles the PP1
It is essentially going to be him and Gaber looking to lead the PP
His ability to walk the walk the line needs work

Hmmm, quite the misleading post.

They averaged 30 seconds per game until last 5-10 games where they were red hot. Especially Sanderson to Weatherby who went on a PP scoring streak in the end due to Sanderson walking the line well. Half of Sanderson's points at the end, where he had around PPG in last 14 games, was half due to his PP contribution and he would have had much more points had he got a bigger look at the beginning of the season. He started to get PP1 time at the end too, especially on 5on3 he was always on. I watched every game and the PP1 unit received almost entire 2 minutes until they started to seriously stall at the end whereby Sanderson's unit capitalized when they got more than 30 seconds. I do agree he needs to work the line better, but if he does, he'll be a top 3-5 D in the game. Towards the end of the season he was elevating his offensive touch, but he needs to continue to be bolder with the puck and he'll be a star.







https://twitter.com/Senators/status/1335058782972416000?s=20

 

[Breakers]

Hmmm, quite the misleading post.

They averaged 30 seconds per game until last 5-10 games where they were red hot. Especially Sanderson to Weatherby who went on a PP scoring streak in the end due to Sanderson walking the line well. Half of Sanderson's points at the end, where he had around PPG in last 14 games, was half due to his PP contribution and he would have had much more points had he got a bigger look at the beginning of the season. He started to get PP1 time at the end too, especially on 5on3 he was always on. I watched every game and the PP1 unit received almost entire 2 minutes until they started to seriously stall at the end whereby Sanderson's unit capitalized when they got more than 30 seconds. I do agree he needs to work the line better, but if he does, he'll be a top 3-5 D in the game. Towards the end of the season he was elevating his offensive touch, but he needs to continue to be bolder with the puck and he'll be a star.

How is that misleading?
PP1 was rolling since the start of the season? That's why they didnt change things. You literally proved my point,
It's not misleading when they weren't doing anything for large chunks of time.
yeah they started to click once an injury forced them to change the setup that was stagnant for most of year.

 

[Dan Patrick]

Working as the qb from the point is the thing Sanderson seems to have improved on the most.

 

[Dominance]

I do agree he needs to work the line better, but if he does, he'll be a top 3-5 D in the game.

You are absolutely out of your mind with this and the multiple Norris trophies prediction. Does the average Sens fan really believe this (obviously, anyone would hope it comes true) or is it just a vocal minority? That the only gap in his game from being the absolute best is walking the line?

You’re saying this guy is not only going to surpass Drysdale, Seider, Clarke, Hughes, Power, Byram, Smith, & co. but also be superior to Makar, Fox, Heiskanen, Dahlin, Chabot, McAvoy, Werenski, Ekblad, Chychrun, etc. and be a better player than blue chip guys like Nemec coming up.

 

[SpezDispenser]

You are absolutely out of your mind with this and the multiple Norris trophies prediction. Does the average Sens fan really believe this (obviously, anyone would hope it comes true) or is it just a vocal minority? That the only gap in his game from being the absolute best is walking the line?

You’re saying this guy is not only going to surpass Drysdale, Seider, Clarke, Hughes, Power, Byram, Smith, & co. but also be superior to Makar, Fox, Heiskanen, Dahlin, Chabot, McAvoy, Werenski, Ekblad, Chychrun, etc. and be a better player than blue chip guys like Nemec coming up.

Unless he goes south in a big way, he'll be right up there. I personally wouldn't go around trumpeting multiple Norris wins (lol), but he's got the tools and appears to be well on his way to developing into an absolute behemoth on the blueline.

 

[Pavlikovsky]

You are absolutely out of your mind with this and the multiple Norris trophies prediction. Does the average Sens fan really believe this (obviously, anyone would hope it comes true) or is it just a vocal minority? That the only gap in his game from being the absolute best is walking the line?

You’re saying this guy is not only going to surpass Drysdale, Seider, Clarke, Hughes, Power, Byram, Smith, & co. but also be superior to Makar, Fox, Heiskanen, Dahlin, Chabot, McAvoy, Werenski, Ekblad, Chychrun, etc. and be a better player than blue chip guys like Nemec coming up.

I don't think many Sens fans think that way, if hits his potential i think he gets the Suter/Weber treatment always considered never a winner because his offensive output wont be 45+ points.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

You are absolutely out of your mind with this and the multiple Norris trophies prediction. Does the average Sens fan really believe this (obviously, anyone would hope it comes true) or is it just a vocal minority? That the only gap in his game from being the absolute best is walking the line?

You’re saying this guy is not only going to surpass Drysdale, Seider, Clarke, Hughes, Power, Byram, Smith, & co. but also be superior to Makar, Fox, Heiskanen, Dahlin, Chabot, McAvoy, Werenski, Ekblad, Chychrun, etc. and be a better player than blue chip guys like Nemec coming up.

Lol, why are you sour that someone thinks a top 5 pick in a deep draft has top 5 D potential; especially the best defensive defender who has offensive touch, Looool.

You are trying to downplay Sanderson equally as much as some are outlandishly praising him.

Forget Sens fans... let's see what some other reputable hockey minds think of him. Let's see what his defensive coach thinks of him.. who also coached McAvoy, Werenski, Jones etc...

2020 Draft: Sanderson could rank among best-ever defensemen at NTDP

NTDP associate coach Nick Fohr oversees the defensemen, and in his nine seasons with the program has worked with several players currently competing in the NHL, including Seth Jones (Columbus Blue Jackets), Zach Werenski (Blue Jackets), Noah Hanifin (Calgary Flames) and Charlie McAvoy (Boston Bruins). He believes Sanderson ranks among that elite group.

"Sandy is right in that mix of the top three guys I've coached here, if not the top guy," Fohr said. "That's still to be determined based on how he develops and where he goes, but this is something we've been talking about since last year. Somebody asked me last season where he'd fit, and I said he's already in my top five and that was as an under-17 player."

Let's look at what director of NHL Central Scouting said:

Dan Marr, director of NHL Central Scouting, raved about Sanderson’s all-around game and said he could take a similar route to defencemen Charlie McAvoy (Bruins), Cale Makar (Avalanche), Zach Werenski (Blue Jackets) and Quinn Hughes (Canucks) by completing a one-and-done season at the college level and then breaking into the NHL.

“He’s just such a complete package — I’ve never been as impressed with a player in all my years of scouting as I was with him in a prospect game — he did everything that you want from the player in that one game,” said Marr in reference to Sanderson’s player of the game honours at the BioSteel All-American showcase in January.

But yea, it's Sens fans who are out of touch right? Loool, I never seen a top 5 pick get this much flake as Sanderson has AFTER raising his stock and outperforming, or at least treading with, the first overall pick from the next draft.

Don't embarrass yourself further, friend.

I don't think many Sens fans think that way, if hits his potential i think he gets the Suter/Weber treatment always considered never a winner because his offensive output wont be 45+ points.

Aka a top 3-5 defender in his prime.

How is that misleading?
PP1 was rolling since the start of the season? That's why they didnt change things. You literally proved my point,
It's not misleading when they weren't doing anything for large chunks of time.
yeah they started to click once an injury forced them to change the setup that was stagnant for most of year.

You made it seem like Sanderson's unit was terrible when they barely got an opportunity--understandably so as the first unit was loaded. Once they got as much leeway as PP1, they were quite productive, though.

 

[Dominance]

Lol, why are you sour that someone thinks a top 5 pick in a deep draft has top 5 D potential; especially the best defensive defender who has offensive touch, Looool.

You are trying to downplay Sanderson equally as much as some are outlandishly praising him.

Forget Sens fans... let's see what some other reputable hockey minds think of him. Let's see what his defensive coach thinks of him.. who also coached McAvoy, Werenski, Jones etc...

2020 Draft: Sanderson could rank among best-ever defensemen at NTDP



Let's look at what director of NHL Central Scouting said:



But yea, it's Sens fans who are out of touch right? Loool, I never seen a top 5 pick get this much flake as Sanderson has AFTER raising his stock and outperforming, or at least treading with, the first overall pick from the next draft.

Don't embarrass yourself further, friend.



Aka a top 3-5 defender in his prime.



You made it seem like Sanderson's unit was terrible when they barely got an opportunity--understandably so as the first unit was loaded. Once they got as much leeway as PP1, they were quite productive, though.

For entertainment purposes, which of the names I listed is he going to pass? Or all?

 

[Breakers]

You made it seem like Sanderson's unit was terrible when they barely got an opportunity--understandably so as the first unit was loaded. Once they got as much leeway as PP1, they were quite productive, though.

when you don’t do anything for large chunks of games (10) that means you get less and less ice time when the first unit is doing well.
Barry himself in post game pressers talked about them not generating enough

you do realize saying a unit isn’t performing well doesn’t mean criticism directly against a player

That’s why it is exciting to see the new unit this year where Barry probably puts him as the lone defenseman

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

For entertainment purposes, which of the names I listed is he going to pass? Or all?

I have no idea, he needs to work on his confidence with the puck some more; his defensive game is the best among all prospects though(save likely Seider), and his breakout game among the best. I also do not know who of those names are going to be top 5 too. Only Makar, Heiskanen and Fox are as of now and they could very well not be in 2 years. Ergo, his peak could maybe be 8 years from now where others drop off a bit. I said he could be a top 3-5 D, I never said for how long or when; my post inferred potential. Is Karlsson a top 5 D now? Would someone have taken me serious if I said Makar was going to surpass him a year after he was drafted when he put up a similar number to Sanderson?

Again, you are still oblivious to the notion that Sanderson is among the elite of the elite (prospect wise) and could be among the elite in the NHL; saying otherwise is being disingenuous to his accomplishments and progression thus far.

For what it's worth, I believe he will be like Slavvin with perhaps a bit more offence; but has the potential of a top 5 D if he develops his offence some more(walking the line will heavily contribute to PP time and more points). I don't know how that's insane of a thought as you seem to make it out to be.

when you don’t do anything for large chunks of games (10) that means you get less and less ice time when the first unit is doing well.
Barry himself in post game pressers talked about them not generating enough

you do realize saying a unit isn’t performing well doesn’t mean criticism directly against a player

That’s why it is exciting to see the new unit this year where Barry probably puts him as the lone defenseman

Yea, I agree. First unit had tremendous amount of leeway every single time though--I watched every game save one. Hard to generate or expect to generate when your PP is one and done. Nonetheless, you are correct in next year's possibilities are much more uncertain and exciting to anticipate.

 

[GOALOFSSON]

I do agree he needs to work the line better, but if he does, he'll be a top 3-5 D in the game.

I also do not know who of those names are going to be top 5 too. Only Makar, Heiskanen and Fox are as of now and they could very well not be in 2 years. Ergo, his peak could maybe be 8 years from now where others drop off a bit. I said he could be a top 3-5 D, I never said for how long or when;

The talent pool of younger high-end defensmen is overflowing right now. The top D for the next while will be monsters. I know you said it under the assumption of certain offensive improvements but even with those, I don't know if he will be top 3-5 consistently, perhaps not ever with the current competition.

The guys you mentioned are all in their early 20s still and aren't likely to fall off anytime soon, probably not in 8 years either. There are other new faces to join the fray over an 8 year period too.

I never seen a top 5 pick get this much flake as Sanderson has AFTER raising his stock and outperforming, or at least treading with, the first overall pick from the next draft.

Speaking of Power, as a Sabres fan myself I don't have expectations of a top 5 D for him at this time, however if he could find himself in the top ~10-15 in a few years he would look awfully nice in a group that features a likely top 1-3 D who we also took 1OA.

 

[Agent Zub]

Sanderson absolutely has top 3 or 5 d upside, and if he doesn't reach that he'll probably fall close. The proof is just watching him play. Hockey sense, mobility, size, poise. Everything you want in a high end d, it's all there in abundance.

Excited to watch what he does this season. I expect domination.