LD Ivan Provorov - Brandon Wheat Kings, WHL (2015, 7th, PHI)

[Shadow Flyer]

I can see the comparison, doubt he hits Doughty's level though, as for Doughty almost everything went perfect and clicked. Remember, in Doughty's 2nd post draft year he was a good player on the Canadian Olympic team. We have to see how well Provorov's ability to process the game is when the speed of the game gets much faster. The fact it didn't phase Doughty much was absolutely incredible. Either way, Provorov looks like an elite NHL defender, and could easily become the best Russian D is a long time.

Oh yea, I don't want to come off as a homer and project him to hit Doughty level. That's a pretty unfair expectation to put on the kid, Doughty is special. I just see comparisons in the way they play.

Provorov, in my opinion, will have more growing pains than Doughty, as one should expect.

 

[Boxscore]

A lot of similarities between Provorov and Doughty, a lot. There's also some Roman Josi and Duncan Keith in Provorov's game.

The thing that has helped Doughty is his body mass and thickness. He's durable and hard to injury. Provorov is also on the thick side for a kid his age but I'd like to see him add to his mass without sacrificing his speed and agility. Doughty is built like players such as Potvin, Bourque, Fetisov, etc. More than any other "build"... I think this is best for a cornerstone DMan who munches big minutes and takes a beating. I'd rather my DMen be built like this than tall and lanky or small and tiny.

 

[Vikke]

Can't wait to see him in camp next season. I'm not as confident as the rest of the Flyers fanbase that he'll actually make the team.

 

[snipes]

I hate to overvalue the Flyers' prospects, but I see quite a bit of Doughty in him too.

Never know how games translate to the NHL level, but Provorov is right on schedule to be a top pairing, all around defenseman. His game goes far beyond stats, much like Doughty as well. If he ends up even close to that level, I will be thrilled.

Yeah, I didn't want to overhype or put too much pressure on him, but I see so much of Doughty's style in Provorov. I've thought that all season, and it was really apparent in the playoffs.

Provorov focused more on his defensive game in the playoffs and just shut other teams down. He looked so much like Doughty to me it was crazy. Not saying he'll be as good as him, but his style of game is strikingly similar.

I'm really pumped to see him live against the London team. I think the Wheat Kings have a very good chance to beat them.

Lots of fans in the East don't get to see much of the WHL. It's a tough league, I don't think people are aware just how good this Wheat Kings team is. They have Nolan Patrick and lots of talent up front too, Patrick is the no brainer #1 pick in 2017.

It will be an exciting Memorial Cup.

 

[Brigid1011*]

I can see the comparison, doubt he hits Doughty's level though, as for Doughty almost everything went perfect and clicked. Remember, in Doughty's 2nd post draft year he was a good player on the Canadian Olympic team. We have to see how well Provorov's ability to process the game is when the speed of the game gets much faster. The fact it didn't phase Doughty much was absolutely incredible. Either way, Provorov looks like an elite NHL defender, and could easily become the best Russian D is a long time.

One of the best parts of Ivan's game is his high hockey IQ and his ability to process the play. Combine that with his physical skills and I think we have a real good one on our hands. A potential number one that we drafted.......finally. Overall our prospect pool on defense is the best I have seen by far in the 30 years I have been a fan. Sanheim and Morin hopefully can round out our top 4 in the future. Myers also is a nice surprise. Strong season. Looking like a good signing for the future maybe. What if best player available at 18 is Fabbro? He is a righty.....creates an interesting question

 

[tacogeoff]

Can't wait to see him in camp next season. I'm not as confident as the rest of the Flyers fanbase that he'll actually make the team.

He will need to improve his foot speed. He has a very nice stride but for a puck carrying defenseman he is slow, but he is very calculated when he moves the puck up ice and is always in a position to pass or dump. It will be interesting to see how he adjusts his game to play against pro men. Wish him the best of luck it has been awesome being able to watch him play in Brandon. hope they do well at the mem cup.

 

[Shadow Flyer]

Can't wait to see him in camp next season. I'm not as confident as the rest of the Flyers fanbase that he'll actually make the team.

I think he'll make the team, but for me it's less about being confident, and more about his options moving forward.

I think for Hextall, in a perfect world, he'd like to start Provorov in the AHL and let him become dominant there, but that's not an option. It's either the NHL or back to Brandon.

My guess is that he'll be on the Flyers at the end of camp, unless it's obvious he isn't ready. They'll shelter him as best they can, and though it may not end up being ideal, I'm not sure there's much more to gain from going back to the WHL at this point.

 

[Cyborg LeClair]

He will need to improve his foot speed. He has a very nice stride but for a puck carrying defenseman he is slow, but he is very calculated when he moves the puck up ice and is always in a position to pass or dump. It will be interesting to see how he adjusts his game to play against pro men. Wish him the best of luck it has been awesome being able to watch him play in Brandon. hope they do well at the mem cup.

I felt he needed to be just a step quicker when i watched him last year in preseason and camp. Over the year I definitely saw that improvement. He plays a very reserved game, so he doesnt use his explosiveness and speed all the time, just when he's pressing like that. There have been plenty of instances where I've seen him blow past other players in the WHL and WJC. He has great deceptive speed and strides. He has such good technique too that he will get faster as he gets stronger and matures.

 

[Vikke]

I think he'll make the team, but for me it's less about being confident, and more about his options moving forward.

I think for Hextall, in a perfect world, he'd like to start Provorov in the AHL and let him become dominant there, but that's not an option. It's either the NHL or back to Brandon.

My guess is that he'll be on the Flyers at the end of camp, unless it's obvious he isn't ready. They'll shelter him as best they can, and though it may not end up being ideal, I'm not sure there's much more to gain from going back to the WHL at this point.

I think a lot of it comes down to the rest of the current D-men.
The only one NOT under contract for next season is Manning.
Gudas as well, but he'll be re-signed for sure. That means there's not a whole lot of space left for Provorov, unless Hexy manages to move a D-man. And to be honest, that might not be very easy.

 

[JWEKD]

I think he'll make the team, but for me it's less about being confident, and more about his options moving forward.

I think for Hextall, in a perfect world, he'd like to start Provorov in the AHL and let him become dominant there, but that's not an option. It's either the NHL or back to Brandon.

My guess is that he'll be on the Flyers at the end of camp, unless it's obvious he isn't ready. They'll shelter him as best they can, and though it may not end up being ideal, I'm not sure there's much more to gain from going back to the WHL at this point.

Question: Why DOES the AHL have the 20 year old age restriction for CHL players? Now that all AHL teams are affiliated with NHL clubs it really does hamper the top tier league's ability to develop their players properly. Why can't the AHL, with assistance from the NHL, strong arm the CHL and get rid of this rule? What incentive does the AHL and NHL have to allow this rule to remain in place? I know how it helps the CHL, but quite frankly, who cares? It's a junior league. It should have no bearing on how the NHL operates. The NHL should be concerned with icing the best product they can, and with this AHL and CHL agreement, they aren't doing that. Let the NHL rules/policies trickle down through the ranks and make the CHL to react accordingly. With more players coming from Europe and the US or going the NCAA route, could this eventually start to hurt the CHL's ability to attract top prospects? Maybe let the CHL have draft plus one, but take away their ability to retain 20 year olds. I dunno, just a question really. I could be missing something obvious.

 

[Fantomas]

Provorov does not need the AHL.

 

[Shadow Flyer]

I think a lot of it comes down to the rest of the current D-men.
The only one NOT under contract for next season is Manning.
Gudas as well, but he'll be re-signed for sure. That means there's not a whole lot of space left for Provorov, unless Hexy manages to move a D-man. And to be honest, that might not be very easy.

Yep, it will be a bit tricky unless at least one Dman gets moved, but I assume if they feel Provorov is ready, they will get that done.

Question: Why DOES the AHL have the 20 year old age restriction for CHL players? Now that all AHL teams are affiliated with NHL clubs it really does hamper the top tier league's ability to develop their players properly. Why can't the AHL, with assistance from the NHL, strong arm the CHL and get rid of this rule? What incentive does the AHL and NHL have to allow this rule to remain in place? I know how it helps the CHL, but quite frankly, who cares? It's a junior league. It should have no bearing on how the NHL operates. The NHL should be concerned with icing the best product they can, and with this AHL and CHL agreement, they aren't doing that. Let the NHL rules/policies trickle down through the ranks and make the CHL to react accordingly. With more players coming from Europe and the US or going the NCAA route, could this eventually start to hurt the CHL's ability to attract top prospects? Maybe let the CHL have draft plus one, but take away their ability to retain 20 year olds. I dunno, just a question really. I could be missing something obvious.

Someone smarter than me will have to answer that question. I honestly do not know.

Provorov does not need the AHL.

Maybe, maybe not. It sure would be nice to have that option if necessary, though.

 

[snipes]

Question: Why DOES the AHL have the 20 year old age restriction for CHL players? Now that all AHL teams are affiliated with NHL clubs it really does hamper the top tier league's ability to develop their players properly. Why can't the AHL, with assistance from the NHL, strong arm the CHL and get rid of this rule? What incentive does the AHL and NHL have to allow this rule to remain in place? I know how it helps the CHL, but quite frankly, who cares? It's a junior league. It should have no bearing on how the NHL operates. The NHL should be concerned with icing the best product they can, and with this AHL and CHL agreement, they aren't doing that. Let the NHL rules/policies trickle down through the ranks and make the CHL to react accordingly. With more players coming from Europe and the US or going the NCAA route, could this eventually start to hurt the CHL's ability to attract top prospects? Maybe let the CHL have draft plus one, but take away their ability to retain 20 year olds. I dunno, just a question really. I could be missing something obvious.

I believe it is after their draft year +1 they can go to the AHL. So Provorov is either WHL or Flyers next year. It's a weird spot these kids get put in. Marner is in the same situation for the Leafs.

I think they can do a conditioning stint during the year (not 100% certain on that without looking it up). They can go to the AHL after their CHL season is done. That's why you usually see some of the young guys getting their first AHL action during the playoffs.

 

[FLYguy3911]

The quality of the CHL would take a big hit if 19 year olds were eligible to play in the AHL.

 

[JWEKD]

The quality of the CHL would take a big hit if 19 year olds were eligible to play in the AHL.

I totally get that why it is the way it is from the CHL perspective. And I am familiar with all the rules regarding this agreement. But why is it this way? Why is this the NHL's concern? Their interests should solely lie with their own club and prospects. With league-wide AHL/NHL affiliation, essentially the NHL controls the AHL talent. So they should force the AHL to abolish the 20 year old AHL/CHL agreement and let the chips fall where they may for the CHL. What incentive (this is my original question) does the NHL/AHL have for allowing the CHL to have their draft plus one and especially draft plus two players that don't make NHL rosters?

Does it all stem back to Team Canada? They would probably lose more players for junior aged international competition if the players were in the AHL? What are everyone's suspicions/thoughts.

To keep this from derailing Provorov talk, it can be moved to its own thread if a MOD would like.

 

[FLYguy3911]

What incentive (this is my original question) does the NHL/AHL have for allowing the CHL to have their draft plus one and especially draft plus two players that don't make NHL rosters?

The incentive for the NHL is a large portion of its player pool and a lot of it's best players have roots in the CHL. Take the top 19 year olds out of the league- essentially the best players in the league and it hurts the development of the 16, 17, and 18 year olds. They wouldn't get to challenge themselves playing against the best prospects in the world. The rule is fine the way it is. If a player truly is too good for the CHL then he should be ready to step in to an NHL lineup.

 

[Willy Styles]

The incentive for the NHL is a large portion of its player pool and a lot of it's best players have roots in the CHL. Take the top 19 year olds out of the league- essentially the best players in the league and it hurts the development of the 16, 17, and 18 year olds. They wouldn't get to challenge themselves playing against the best prospects in the world. The rule is fine the way it is. If a player truly is too good for the CHL then he should be ready to step in to an NHL lineup.

They should have a rule where each NHL is allowed one exeception to the 20 year old rule every three draft years. I think that way players development would not be stunted and the CHL talent level will not be depleted.

 

[Roo Mad Bro]

He will need to improve his foot speed. He has a very nice stride but for a puck carrying defenseman he is slow, but he is very calculated when he moves the puck up ice and is always in a position to pass or dump. It will be interesting to see how he adjusts his game to play against pro men. Wish him the best of luck it has been awesome being able to watch him play in Brandon. hope they do well at the mem cup.

I think you are confusing foot speed and the fact that he tends to slow the play down and control the tempo while he has the puck on his stick. He's a calculated puck rusher, not a skate full blown ahead into the offensive zone dman.

I find that that he is a very explosive skater. When he wants to he can really turn on the jets and his skating really jumps out.

Watch these two plays.




For the life of me I cannot find the testing results, but for the 2015 CHL Top Prospect game they had their on ice testing portion. I remember Provorov was near the top of a lot of the skating drills and comparable to McDavid FWIW.

 

[FLYguy3911]

He's a very strong skater, but he's much faster without the puck than he is with it. He always has two hands on the stick when he's carrying the puck up the ice. Great for puck protection, but he doesn't create a lot of momentum with his upper body. Very unique style that you don't see in the NHL too often. Might have something to do with the long stick he uses. Probably the thing I'm most curious to see how it translates to the next level.

 

[93LEAFS]

The incentive for the NHL is a large portion of its player pool and a lot of it's best players have roots in the CHL. Take the top 19 year olds out of the league- essentially the best players in the league and it hurts the development of the 16, 17, and 18 year olds. They wouldn't get to challenge themselves playing against the best prospects in the world. The rule is fine the way it is. If a player truly is too good for the CHL then he should be ready to step in to an NHL lineup.

Completely agree, its a short sighted solution to fix a very small problem. Have mentioned this exactly in many Marner threads. Provorov benefited last year by playing against guys like Drai and Reinhart, guys like Tyler Benson and such have benefited by playing against Provorov this year. Same applies to Marner and Strome playing against Nurse last year, and this year playing against guys like Chychrun and Sergachev. It would slowly erode the value of the league, which would lead to players being less ready later on.

 

[snipes]

Too many posters to quote. Completely agree with the consensus.

The rule is correct for the long term development of future NHL players. The 19 year old stars make the 16, 17, 18 year old future prospects better. It would slowly deteriorate the quality of the CHL as the best junior leagues in the world if those 19 year olds were removed.

 

[JetsFan815]

There is no reason to think he not going to be Doughty level. So far in the Juniors he has done everything better than Doughty. Whether it translates to pros is another thing but from what we have seen there is no indication that he can't be as good as Doughty

 

[Magua]

I think you are confusing foot speed and the fact that he tends to slow the play down and control the tempo while he has the puck on his stick. He's a calculated puck rusher, not a skate full blown ahead into the offensive zone dman.

I find that that he is a very explosive skater. When he wants to he can really turn on the jets and his skating really jumps out.

100% agreed. He is just so powerful in his stride. And deceptive. He suddenly switches gears without any extra exertion and before the defenders even realize he has switched gears. It's a very impressive thing to watch. And he's so smart defending with his positioning he's one of those guys that it rarely even feels like they're skating. But watch out when he does.

 

[snipes]

One of the more interesting things with Provorov is his stick length.

He plays with an unusually long stick, but it doesn't seem to affect his stick handling and he knows how to use it properly in board battles and in his own zone.

As I've said before, Provorov did not put up as impressive offensive stats in the playoffs as he did in the regular season, but I saw a huge growth in his defensive game. Provorov was a defensive beast in the playoffs and played a more responsible defensive game.

The Doughty comparison is on point, I've thought this all year. In the playoffs especially, like Doughty, Provorov passed up on taking risks to jump into the offensive zone. He favoured his defensive responsibilities in the playoffs and it really showed to people who have played D before or know what to look for in a good D man.

When Provorov shuts down Marner and Tkachuk in the Memorial Cup, I can't wait to argue with Eastern Canadians and explain why Provorov is the best prospect not currently in the NHL.

The Dub is a far tougher league than the OHL and the Knights will be in tough against Provorov, Patrick, and company. The WHL has won substantially more Memorial Cups than any other CHL league. We play a tough brand of hockey in Western Canada that Philly fans especially will appreciate and love.

 

[Brigid1011*]

He will need to improve his foot speed. He has a very nice stride but for a puck carrying defenseman he is slow, but he is very calculated when he moves the puck up ice and is always in a position to pass or dump. It will be interesting to see how he adjusts his game to play against pro men. Wish him the best of luck it has been awesome being able to watch him play in Brandon. hope they do well at the mem cup.

Not to forget we also have puck movers in Ghost and Sanheim in the system. Ivan won't have to be the primary mover if he's paired with either