Confirmed with Link: Lawson Crouse and Dave Bolland for 2nd and 3rd picks

[Ebb]

There is no need or benefit for the Coyotes to over pay. I am sure the Coyotes have run the comparable's to assess value, Chayka is an analytics guy after all. They could go to arbitration and let a third party decide. I suspect the arb decision will be right at the Coyotes offer price. RFA's don't have any leverage, you have to be a UFA for that. His agent can wait/threaten an option in Europe, or whatever, none of it makes a difference. Reider will sign at market value, sooner or later, because that is his best and really only option.

Why go to an arbiter, since Rieder doesn't qualify for that at this point. He pretty much has to settle for what we offer or go play in Europe for a year. If he wants arbitration, that'll be after his next contract. In the end, the Coyotes decide what his pay will be in the NHL if he plans on staying. He can always sit out, but I'm guessing that will just hurt him in the long run. Of course, if the Coyotes don't want to deal with it, they can move him, but I doubt they settle for a lower quality player in return (unless picks/prospects are included).

At this point, I hope he re-signs, but I think we have enough LWs to somewhat make up for his play style if he ends up sitting out this season; I mean we probably aren't going to make it to the playoffs (with or without him), so as long as they play hard ball on a fair value contract, I'm happy to let them sort it out.

In terms of Crouse, I don't expect him to play with us this season unless he does extremely well at camp. If Rieder holds out this season, we'll have another rookie try out at the position. Here's what I would be fine with:

Domi - Hanzal - Duclair
McGinn - Strome - Vrbata
Dvorak - Richardson - Doan
Martinook - Gaudet - White
Cunningham/Samuelsson (Cunningham can play all 3 forward positions)
KEY: Bold=rookies (under 10 NHL games) | Italics= might as well be rookies​

 

[rt]

No Martinook?

 

[Ebb]

No Martinook?

crap, forgot him (I initially put him on the 2nd until I realized we have McGinn). Changed. (My lineup was looking pretty rough there without Martinook)

 

[Thor Savage]

Think Reider and Crouse are different types of players. We needed a big body forward to balance out our roster. Other than Hanzal and Doan, not a lot of Coyotes play the "heavy" game.

I think McGinn can play that role as a forward and Schenn on the back end. We added a little jam this off season.

 

[The Rainman]

If Bolland is healthy enough to play do you think this makes Strome's path to a starting spot tougher? Or does this push Dvorak down

You will never see Boland in your uniform. They had to take Boland to get Crouse. That tells you how much they wanted Crouse. Boland was a anchor for the Panthers but the Coyotes could afford to take on Boland's contract. He was done as a Leaf. Crouse is going to be a huge addition to Arizona.

 

[Bonsai Tree]

I remember concerning talk about Crouse having a low ceiling. Has anyone followed him since the draft? Can he be a top 6 wing?

 

[hbk]

I remember concerning talk about Crouse having a low ceiling. Has anyone followed him since the draft? Can he be a top 6 wing?

He's never going to be focal point of offense but he can play on any line because of his skating / size.

His draft year he played on a very bad Kingston team that makes Tippets system the last few years look like run and gun. Scored roughly 30% less often than most OHL teams and stats reflected it. Team won conference last year and scored more goals but it is still very offensively restrictive.

This is a good player on a defensive team. He's the top power forward prospect potentially in entire NHL.

 

[Bonsai Tree]

He's never going to be focal point of offense but he can play on any line because of his skating / size.

His draft year he played on a very bad Kingston team that makes Tippets system the last few years look like run and gun. Scored roughly 30% less often than most OHL teams and stats reflected it. Team won conference last year and scored more goals but it is still very offensively restrictive.

This is a good player on a defensive team. He's the top power forward prospect potentially in entire NHL.

Thank you. So is he best utilized on a "heavy" line playing alongside Hanzal or Doan, or with smaller players ?

 

[hbk]

Thank you. So is he best utilized on a "heavy" line playing alongside Hanzal or Doan, or with smaller players ?

Right now he's auditioning for a bottom 6 role and I'm not sure we should be breaking up the Martinook/Richardson/Doan line. Hanzal likely pencils in with either a Vrbata or as the C of Domi and Duclair.

I'm debating more about whether you play him with Strome or Keller and whether Merkley or Fischer would be better options on right side. Crouse, Keller, Merkley could be magic. So could Crouse, Strome, Fischer.

 

[Heldig]

IMO Crouse is a perfect 3rd line guy that can PK and play in front of the net on the PP. 2nd line upside. Dont think he is skilled enough to play top line.

 

[hbk]

IMO Crouse is a perfect 3rd line guy that can PK and play in front of the net on the PP. 2nd line upside. Dont think he is skilled enough to play top line.

He's a complimentary player on 1st line. His skating allows him to play, pot 20-30, and not be a liability on a top line.

 

[Jakey53]

IMO Crouse is a perfect 3rd line guy that can PK and play in front of the net on the PP. 2nd line upside. Dont think he is skilled enough to play top line.

He's a complimentary player on 1st line. His skating allows him to play, pot 20-30, and not be a liability on a top line.

If he can pot 30 goals, he can play anywhere he wants.

 

[Bonsai Tree]

If he can pot 30 goals, he can play anywhere he wants.

point taken

 

[Ebb]

I don't think Crouse will make it onto the roster this season, but I can easily see him on the 3rd in 2017-2018 (especially since we'll probably lose 4 forwards to retirement/UFA). Crouse - Richardson - Fischer looks swell to me.
Domi - Strome - Duclair
Perlini - Dvorak - McGinn
Crouse - Richardson - Fischer
Martinook - Dauphin - Fournier?

 

[strizzy16]

I don't think Crouse will make it onto the roster this season, but I can easily see him on the 3rd in 2017-2018 (especially since we'll probably lose 4 forwards to retirement/UFA). Crouse - Richardson - Fischer looks swell to me.
Domi - Strome - Duclair
Perlini - Dvorak - McGinn
Crouse - Richardson - Fischer
Martinook - Dauphin - Fournier?

Although I think we will bring on a couple of vet UFAs to mix in with the kids, a la the Panthers recent formula for success, it is truly insane how young our roster projects to be next year. I'm pretty much with you on the above lineup, but hopefully Rieder will be in Perlinis spot that you have listed, otherwise, we go UFA there. Not completely sold on Perlinis prospects of realistically being ready to slot in the top 6.

 

[rt]

If Crouse can be Jamie McGinn offensively and Jordan Martinook defensively/on the PK, then he's one hell of an NHL player, even if he never sniffs 30 goals (which I'd be shocked if he ever did).

 

[Jakey53]

If Crouse can be Jamie McGinn offensively and Jordan Martinook defensively/on the PK, then he's one hell of an NHL player, even if he never sniffs 30 goals (which I'd be shocked if he ever did).

With his size, skating and talent, I could care less about his PK skills.

 

[rt]

He won't be offensively productive enough for you to actually feel that way, Jake.

Jamie McGinn has 450 NHL games under his belt. He's averaged 17g 14a 31pts per 82gp in his career so far. After 450 NHL games played, I'd doubt Crouse will be drastically more productive than that. And he's not likely to spend that many games with this franchise, anyway. Say we do get those 5.5 NHL seasons from him. Say he is more productive than McGinn. You're looking at 19g 17a 36pts 7 fighting majors and a handful of big body checks per season. Depending on how much PP time your allowing such a player to eat up, and how many primo match ups and zone starts he's getting, that's pretty valuable. Maybe. If that player is very good defensively and on the penalty kill, however, he suddenly becomes an extremely valuable asset. Especially if he's getting less than stellar zone starts, tough match ups, and is a positive possession factor.

 

[cobra427]

He won't be offensively productive enough for you to actually feel that way, Jake.

Jamie McGinn has 450 NHL games under his belt. He's averaged 17g 14a 31pts per 82gp in his career so far. After 450 NHL games played, I'd doubt Crouse will be drastically more productive than that. And he's not likely to spend that many games with this franchise, anyway. Say we do get those 5.5 NHL seasons from him. Say he is more productive than McGinn. You're looking at 19g 17a 36pts 7 fighting majors and a handful of big body checks per season. Depending on how much PP time your allowing such a player to eat up, and how many primo match ups and zone starts he's getting, that's pretty valuable. Maybe. If that player is very good defensively and on the penalty kill, however, he suddenly becomes an extremely valuable asset. Especially if he's getting less than stellar zone starts, tough match ups, and is a positive possession factor.

I agree. In the NHL, you need to have skills in multiple areas if you are not a top production player. Just look at Reider and Martinook, they made it because of other areas of their game besides production.

 

[SR]

He won't be offensively productive enough for you to actually feel that way, Jake.

Jamie McGinn has 450 NHL games under his belt. He's averaged 17g 14a 31pts per 82gp in his career so far. After 450 NHL games played, I'd doubt Crouse will be drastically more productive than that. And he's not likely to spend that many games with this franchise, anyway. Say we do get those 5.5 NHL seasons from him. Say he is more productive than McGinn. You're looking at 19g 17a 36pts 7 fighting majors and a handful of big body checks per season. Depending on how much PP time your allowing such a player to eat up, and how many primo match ups and zone starts he's getting, that's pretty valuable. Maybe. If that player is very good defensively and on the penalty kill, however, he suddenly becomes an extremely valuable asset. Especially if he's getting less than stellar zone starts, tough match ups, and is a positive possession factor.

This couldn't be more correct as potential for Crouse.

 

[RemoAZ]

I think we should wait to see the kid play before we start capping or exaggerating his potential. New team, new system and new teammates that he has some history with. The size, talent and age give him the ability to become a top player in this league. I like the attitude and motivation he shows so far. Let's see how that looks on the ice in camp.

 

[rt]

If he became a 30g NHLer with his production so far, he'd be an extreme anomaly. Once in a decade.

Edit: I meant 7 total fighting majors in the 5.5 seasons, btw, if anyone cares.

 

[BlazingBlueAnt]

Crouse
3.63 team gpg
1.27 player ppg
~35%

Strome
3.85
1.98
~51%

Dvo
4.69
2.05
~44%

MacInnis
3.75
1.37
~37%

Perlini
3.13
.79
~25%

 

[Jakey53]

He won't be offensively productive enough for you to actually feel that way, Jake.

Jamie McGinn has 450 NHL games under his belt. He's averaged 17g 14a 31pts per 82gp in his career so far. After 450 NHL games played, I'd doubt Crouse will be drastically more productive than that. And he's not likely to spend that many games with this franchise, anyway. Say we do get those 5.5 NHL seasons from him. Say he is more productive than McGinn. You're looking at 19g 17a 36pts 7 fighting majors and a handful of big body checks per season. Depending on how much PP time your allowing such a player to eat up, and how many primo match ups and zone starts he's getting, that's pretty valuable. Maybe. If that player is very good defensively and on the penalty kill, however, he suddenly becomes an extremely valuable asset. Especially if he's getting less than stellar zone starts, tough match ups, and is a positive possession factor.

Maybe, but I think Crouse has a chance to be much more productive than McGinn.

 

[Jakey53]

I think we should wait to see the kid play before we start capping or exaggerating his potential. New team, new system and new teammates that he has some history with. The size, talent and age give him the ability to become a top player in this league. I like the attitude and motivation he shows so far. Let's see how that looks on the ice in camp.

I agree.