Lavy, is the clock really ticking?

[glenngineer]

"Terrific" seems a little hyperbolic... he looked like a bit of a passenger on that line, I thought... not totally out of place, but it could have been just about anybody there... ? I wouldn't have broken the line up or anything (Forsberg's injury did that) and I would certainly go back to them again, all the same. But I just didn't see "terrific".

Let me ask you a question. Bones, Smith and Grimaldi seem to work well together, right? Putting up points, except for Smith. Smith is busting his arse though going to the corners, winning battles and the other two are putting the puck in the net. Bones and Grimaldi without Smith doesn't work.

Flip back to the first 5 games with 9, 95 and 64. They were on fire. 64, while he only netted 4 points, was helping the other two by going to the corners, getting the puck and they were doing the rest. Now if 64 keeps up that pace, he's putting up .8 points per game and over an 82 game schedule, that's a mid 60 point total.

Does it matter if a guy isn't getting points if the rest of his line is producing like gangbusters? 9 and 95 were on fire. I just don't see the reason when all three were healthy that Lavy didn't go back to that combo. It's astonishing really.

I'm going to throw another scenario out at you. Jarnkrok is having a great season by his standards. He is benefitting from having played with 9 and 92 lately. I think the opposite is true though, that 9 and 92 have suffered because of playing with him. While that line has an occasional shift that is dominant, they are not the same line with 19 that they are with 33.

I have no problem with Smith having 2 goals and 7 points at this point because the rest of his line is producing. The problem is with the top 2 lines in that we're not getting the production from the top guys like we should. We were down 4-1 going into the 3rd the other night and Lavy put the Bones line back together and in doing so, other lines got shifted around. I'm sorry, for a guy who likes to tinker when things are going well, he doesn't tinker as much when things are going poorly.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Let me ask you a question. Bones, Smith and Grimaldi seem to work well together, right? Putting up points, except for Smith. Smith is busting his arse though going to the corners, winning battles and the other two are putting the puck in the net. Bones and Grimaldi without Smith doesn't work.

Flip back to the first 5 games with 9, 95 and 64. They were on fire. 64, while he only netted 4 points, was helping the other two by going to the corners, getting the puck and they were doing the rest. Now if 64 keeps up that pace, he's putting up .8 points per game and over an 82 game schedule, that's a mid 60 point total.

Does it matter if a guy isn't getting points if the rest of his line is producing like gangbusters? 9 and 95 were on fire. I just don't see the reason when all three were healthy that Lavy didn't go back to that combo. It's astonishing really.

I'm going to throw another scenario out at you. Jarnkrok is having a great season by his standards. He is benefitting from having played with 9 and 92 lately. I think the opposite is true though, that 9 and 92 have suffered because of playing with him. While that line has an occasional shift that is dominant, they are not the same line with 19 that they are with 33.

I have no problem with Smith having 2 goals and 7 points at this point because the rest of his line is producing. The problem is with the top 2 lines in that we're not getting the production from the top guys like we should. We were down 4-1 going into the 3rd the other night and Lavy put the Bones line back together and in doing so, other lines got shifted around. I'm sorry, for a guy who likes to tinker when things are going well, he doesn't tinker as much when things are going poorly.

It's a rhetorical question, right? Never mind! Yep, they work well together. I'm not going to say Smith has been "terrific" though. And I'm not going to say it about Granlund either. Just like I said, I'd keep those lines together. Go back to them as soon as I could once injuries cleared up, even. But as for singling out the least-productive members of the lines as being "terrific"? No thanks.

Maybe the sample is just too small, but I don't find that Granlund's efforts go much beyond what I'd expect from any of our starting 12 forwards thrown into that role. Is there some magical chemistry there that transcends his production? Hmm. I'm not sold. There is definitely enough small sample success that I'm certainly in favor of continuing to run that line, for sure. But there are limits to the accolades I'd heap onto what I'd consider to be the least important member of the trio, is all.

I think we're getting down to the limits of what tinkering is really needed, though. Sticking with what works ought to be a little clearer now as we near the mid-way mark. The Bonino line works. Stick with it. Forsberg-Duchene-Granlund worked. It doesn't leave so many tinkering options left, does it?

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

Tick...tick...tick...

 

[valeriammm]

And that's the problem with Poile. He's too loyal or trusting to fire a coach mid-season. We need to rip the band-aid before LA passes us if we want to make the playoffs this year.

Is there still enough time to turn things around in a major way this season? I dont mean making the playoffs that could happen. What i mean is reuniting a team that seems to not know eachother and gain the trust of a compleatly new coach

 

[Soundgarden]

Is there still enough time to turn things around in a major way this season? I dont mean making the playoffs that could happen. What i mean is reuniting a team that seems to not know eachother and gain the trust of a compleatly new coach

I think St. Louis proved last year that there is enough time for the right coach to get acclimated. With Christmas and the new year approaching that window is getting shorter though. If we muddle along stringing together a couple wins and a couple of losses without any real rhythm and then fire Lavy in February or March, then yes I think it'll be too late.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Is there still enough time to turn things around in a major way this season? I dont mean making the playoffs that could happen. What i mean is reuniting a team that seems to not know eachother and gain the trust of a compleatly new coach

I think it depends on Things We Don't Know. Like, really, why is this team so bad? (Or so "mediocre") anyway. We go back and forth with pet theories about systems or lines or structural things like that. But I bet a lot of it is more psychological/motivational. Except, in what way? Do the players like Lavy and him getting fired shocks them out of their complacency? Or are they just fundamentally a laid-back lot who aren't going to get riled up by just about anything that comes along? I don't know... I reckon you might have to be around the team (like Poile) to really have a valid opinion.

This does not stop me from voicing an invalid opinion, of course! I sort of fear it's the latter case... we just have too large a critical mass of mostly-chill players with cushy long-term contracts, and I don't know if anybody can really light a fire under them. It's been something like that for a couple years, really, the last two playoff seasons really highlighted it. Sooooo... turning that around with a mid-season firing right now might be a tall order. I still want them to try, though. Basically just as a Hail Mary... I'm not really thinking it's going to work. But what we've got isn't really working either, so why not.

 

[maplepred]

Let’s hire Deboer!!

 

[Softball99]

Looks like Lavy decided/was told let Lambert do what we hired him for and McCarthy is coaching the intermission interviews

 

[bdub24]

Prolly not

 

[bdub24]

Let’s hire Deboer!!

DeNo

 

[GoldOnGold]

If we actually make the playoffs, zero percent chance Lavy goes. If we miss, I put it at under 50%. Maybe 40% chance then IMO.

 

[valeriammm]

I think St. Louis proved last year that there is enough time for the right coach to get acclimated. With Christmas and the new year approaching that window is getting shorter though. If we muddle along stringing together a couple wins and a couple of losses without any real rhythm and then fire Lavy in February or March, then yes I think it'll be too late.

What happened in St. Louis was something out of a movie. I find it incredibly hard to be able to compare the Preds who are now mediocre after having been a top tier team for a few years to the team that was all the way in the bottom standings. I think a lot of people like to imagine that because of what the Blues did last year their team might still have a chance if theyre doing poorly this season but two almost miracles seems highly unlikely especially if there isnt a quick turnaround with a new coach.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

What happened in St. Louis was something out of a movie. I find it incredibly hard to be able to compare the Preds who are now mediocre after having been a top tier team for a few years to the team that was all the way in the bottom standings. I think a lot of people like to imagine that because of what the Blues did last year their team might still have a chance if theyre doing poorly this season but two almost miracles seems highly unlikely especially if there isnt a quick turnaround with a new coach.

I get the feeling people are aware of the realities. That indeed the St. Louis outcome is like winning the lottery. And that despite this awareness, we are ready for change. Because the alternatives seem to be:
a) continue to wallow in mediocrity, with clear performance issues
b) take a total leap into the unknown - i.e. buy a lottery ticket

People are consciously choosing b), fully aware that winning the lottery is not really a very likely outcome. But thinking the downside can't really be much worse than a) regardless.

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

What happened in St. Louis was something out of a movie. I find it incredibly hard to be able to compare the Preds who are now mediocre after having been a top tier team for a few years to the team that was all the way in the bottom standings. I think a lot of people like to imagine that because of what the Blues did last year their team might still have a chance if theyre doing poorly this season but two almost miracles seems highly unlikely especially if there isnt a quick turnaround with a new coach.

It's not just St. Louis though. The Blues were indeed a special case in terms of just how bad they were compared to how they wound up, but coaching changes spurring underperforming teams to post-season success is a far less unique circumstance, having also been seen in Los Angeles and Pittsburgh (with both Therrien-->Bylsma and then again with Bylsma-->Sullivan).

 

[Kat Predator]

What happened in St. Louis was something out of a movie. I find it incredibly hard to be able to compare the Preds who are now mediocre after having been a top tier team for a few years to the team that was all the way in the bottom standings. I think a lot of people like to imagine that because of what the Blues did last year their team might still have a chance if theyre doing poorly this season but two almost miracles seems highly unlikely especially if there isnt a quick turnaround with a new coach.

For the Blues, the coaching change was big, adapting the system to the players strengths was a solid concept, but going from poor, leaky goaltending to great goaltending because the new coach had the cajones to make the switch—that was critical.

It's also the elephant in the room for the Preds this season. Our goaltenders have been off, sub-par, and not making the incredible saves look routine like they have in recent years. It's not all on them—the play in front has left them just out there hanging, but we've left them in bad spots in the past and they were able to shut the door. It sucks to say it, because Pekka is great and a personal favorite.

Now maybe the Preds have some young goaltender stashed away in northern Quebec or someplace who can come in, snap his fingers, and shave a cold 1.8 off our GAA, but ...

 

[FossilFndr]

If they can sit a 6 M per year player in the press box for 7 straight games why not sit a 2 M head coach? Bring up Taylor from Milwaukee and give him a chance. What's good for the goose ....

See that guy selling beer, even he's a better coach than I am!

 

[Roman Yoshi]

If we lose the Winter classic, I fully believe we will have a new coach by Jan 4th against the Kings.

 

[Scoresberg]

I wouldn’t mind seeing Lavy gone, but he doesn’t have any effect over Watson making braindead plays like last night to cost us the game.

Feels like this season, we just can’t catch a break. It just doesn’t feel like our year.

 

[FossilFndr]

But I do put the defense puck watching behind the net instead of the forward in the slot on coaching. I guess coaches just live past their expiration date. I liked Trotz, but his shelf life expired. Lavy has a much shorter shelf life.

I'm just frustrated. Duchene was supposed to be the answer to winning, a strong offense will make up for defensive shortcomings. Well not so much. We've got an aging Rinne, but Saros will be fine, a great back-up and the future of the team. Well not so much.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

If we lose the Winter classic, I fully believe we will have a new coach by Jan 4th against the Kings.

Has anybody ever said this to you: you're such an optimist.

 

[Roman Yoshi]

Has anybody ever said this to you: you're such an optimist.

I mean, I think getting a coaching change would be a good thing so yes this seems like an optimistic view?

Let's just hope we don't lose the Winter Classic. I really wanna win that thing.

 

[Legionnaire11]

What we need is a tactician. Teams need a rotation between tactician and motivator every so often and one of Poile's faults has been his loyalty to coaches and failing to recognize when the need to change coaching approaches presents itself.

For example, Trotz is a great tactician, he was perfect for a young and building team/franchise. But I think around 2009 when we had some really talented teams, was the time to bring in a motivator like Laviolette. Instead Poile stuck with Trotz and the team never got over the hump, eventually going through a small rebuild.

That's when Poile brought in Lavi, who did a fantastic job at first, his impact was almost immediate and took the team to within two games of a Cup, won the President's and a couple divisions, but we have all watched the decline in performance despite a very talented roster. That motivating voice probably just isn't doing it for the players anymore and they could stand a switch to a more rigid systems guy again.

Unfortunately, as i've said all along, Laviolette's contract runs through next season and we may see a repeat of the Trotz situation play out where Lavi coaches the team to consecutive playoff misses and is not renewed.

It sucks because we all feel like this window is being wasted, but it could really end up being a big win for us down the road. Not only is Laviolette up in 2021, so is Pekka and the Expansion Draft. The team should have about 6-7 forward spots and 3-4 defensive positions to fill (depending on who we lose to Seattle). That's going to open up the team for big changes right when some of the kids should be getting ready to make the jump as well, and bring in more young players is a great time to make an organizational shift and bring in that tactical systems coach again.

Of course in the meantime I hope that the Preds win every game 10-0 and build a Laviolette led dynasty that wins the next 20 Cups in a row. But I think looking logically at things, even if this season and next season are kind of rough on us fans, at least there is a hope going forward from there. If two down seasons is the worst case scenario, then we've got it pretty good here.

 

[Predsanddead24]

What we need is a tactician. Teams need a rotation between tactician and motivator every so often and one of Poile's faults has been his loyalty to coaches and failing to recognize when the need to change coaching approaches presents itself.

For example, Trotz is a great tactician, he was perfect for a young and building team/franchise. But I think around 2009 when we had some really talented teams, was the time to bring in a motivator like Laviolette. Instead Poile stuck with Trotz and the team never got over the hump, eventually going through a small rebuild.

That's when Poile brought in Lavi, who did a fantastic job at first, his impact was almost immediate and took the team to within two games of a Cup, won the President's and a couple divisions, but we have all watched the decline in performance despite a very talented roster. That motivating voice probably just isn't doing it for the players anymore and they could stand a switch to a more rigid systems guy again.

Unfortunately, as i've said all along, Laviolette's contract runs through next season and we may see a repeat of the Trotz situation play out where Lavi coaches the team to consecutive playoff misses and is not renewed.

It sucks because we all feel like this window is being wasted, but it could really end up being a big win for us down the road. Not only is Laviolette up in 2021, so is Pekka and the Expansion Draft. The team should have about 6-7 forward spots and 3-4 defensive positions to fill (depending on who we lose to Seattle). That's going to open up the team for big changes right when some of the kids should be getting ready to make the jump as well, and bring in more young players is a great time to make an organizational shift and bring in that tactical systems coach again.

Of course in the meantime I hope that the Preds win every game 10-0 and build a Laviolette led dynasty that wins the next 20 Cups in a row. But I think looking logically at things, even if this season and next season are kind of rough on us fans, at least there is a hope going forward from there. If two down seasons is the worst case scenario, then we've got it pretty good here.

I think the tactician vs. motivator is an interesting point. Ideally, I think you also need assistants that can balance out what the head coach is doing to some degree too. I think Housley was great in that role as a tactician and that our hirings to replace him have been pretty lackluster.

 

[FossilFndr]

......

Of course in the meantime I hope that the Preds win every game 10-0 and build a Laviolette led dynasty that wins the next 20 Cups in a row. But I think looking logically at things, even if this season and next season are kind of rough on us fans, at least there is a hope going forward from there. If two down seasons is the worst case scenario, then we've got it pretty good here.

The optimism of a young man, some of us won't live to see that far down the road.

 

[adsfan]

The optimism of a young man, some of us won't live to see that far down the road.

I want to live long enough to see Nashville win at least one Coupe Stanley!

I have about 30 years to go, unless I get run over crossing the street at work.