Confirmed Trade: [LAK/TOR] Jake Muzzin for 2019 1st round pick, Sean Durzi, and Carl Grundstrom - Part II

[mflo77]

mflo77: Lol Leafs fans acting like they got Doughty

Leafs fan: Actually we just think he's a good player and are happy with the upgrade.

mflo77: *Acts like they got Phaneuf*

based on the hype after practice 1, does he wipe the crack up or down?

 

[Leaf Fans]

based on the hype after practice 1, does he wipe the crack up or down?

What hype? It was a normal practice. yes, people mentioned that Muzzin looked comfortable. Where are you getting the hype from?

 

[Go Wings]

Why are we still talking about this? It was a good fair deal for both sides. We will find out who did better in the long run years from now.

 

[bland]

He's good. Some people over inflate his defensive gaffes. He has his moment where we used to call him the Muffin man, but he's very solid.

And he deserved every chance to grow into the NHL. Of course there are bumps on the road along the way.

Muzzin has a wicked, accurate shot when creeping in from the point. That wrister from the top of the circles has always been his strongest suit, but those chances have been fewer and farther between as the Kings descended into a team that could no longer create chances with cross ice puck movement. He will score a boatload of goals in Toronto from that spot.

He holds the blue line well, with occasionally huge hits, but his defensive game is just average. His stick isn't always in the best spot, and too often he will get beat from the boards to the front of the net on coverages. I don't really agree with Osprey about over-pinching or leaving the zone too early, that's not something I feel does more than any other blueliner with an offensive tilt to his game.

One thing to look for, the reason he gets beat from the boards, and why his first pass isn't always accurate is that he skates in a very upright fashion. He doesn't get a lot of leverage with his stick, and for a bigger guy he has a relatively small area of influence around him. He skates very well, but it's too easy to get in and around him.

Muzzin has a lot of sexy attributes, has a great attitude, and will improve anybody's top-4, he just isn't an all-world type of defender. His strengths do more than just cover for his weaknesses.

 

[jaric1862]

Babcock was being so salty today about the addition of another left shot to our blue line. Does he not understand that Kapanen/Johnsson would not be on the roster if they wanted to get a RHD ( like Pesce or Hamilton)? Clearly,
Muzzin without giving up anything on the roster > Pesce/Hamilton minus Johnsson/Kapanen.
The gap between these players is not big enough to justify the loss of Kapanen/Johnsson.
He is so dogmatic sometimes

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

His defensive advanced stats are terrific FYI. He's a top 40 D easy.

A fan of the Emperor's New Clothes, I see...

 

[Leaf Fans]

A fan of the Emperor's New Clothes, I see...

Great story!

 

[Chazz Reinhold]

I'm telling you what 6 years of actually watching him have revealed. Regardless, which "defensive advanced stats" are you referring to? If you mean Corsi, that's not really a defensive stat, something that a lot of people don't understand. Muzzin has always had great Corsi because he's so good at generating offense. Even years ago, well before his defense improved, he had great Corsi. If you don't want to believe me that he often sacrifices defensive responsibility for the possibility of generating offense, just wait and see for yourself. I'm just telling you what to expect, but, if you'd rather expect something more and be disappointed, I'm not going to try to talk you out of it.

How about his ability to limit zone entries? Does that count?

 

[Invictus12]

For all the talk about making cap space for Kapanen.... Is it possible that Marleau plans on calling quits after this season? I don't see Toronto entertaining the idea of trading Kapanen for futures and certainly making other trades wouldn't be easy given the amount they'll be over the cap..

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

Great story!

Thanks for confirming it...

 

[Leaf Fans]

Thanks for confirming it...

Didn't need too. It is a classic. Shows you need facts to confirm the eye test.

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

For all the talk about making cap space for Kapanen.... Is it possible that Marleau plans on calling quits after this season? I don't see Toronto entertaining the idea of trading Kapanen for futures and certainly making other trades wouldn't be easy given the amount they'll be over the cap..

Things will be tight next year, but they will not be over the cap if they use Horton's LTIR.

Let's assume the cap goes up by $4.5M (optimistc, I know) to $84M.

They now have 13 players signed for almost $60.3M.

Let's assume $25M to Matthews/Marner/Kapanen.

That's 16 players signed for $85.3M.

They need 5-6-7 more players.

Using Horton's LTIR, they'll have $4M available for these 5-6-7 players.

Their best semi-realistic scenario would be to get rid of Zaitsev, but it takes two to tango and they'll probably need to attach a significant sweetener to make that deal.

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

Didn't need too. It is a classic. Shows you need facts to confirm the eye test.

"Facts" is the key word here.

Facts are not the demented dreams of a bored statistician.

And I love statistics, as you'll realize if you search through my post history...

 

[Leaf Fans]

"Facts" is the key word here.

Facts are not the demented dreams of a bored statistician.

And I love statistics, as you'll realize if you search through my post history...

Yes, as Mark Twain said Lies, damn lies and statistics!

 

[I am Canadian]

For all the talk about making cap space for Kapanen.... Is it possible that Marleau plans on calling quits after this season? I don't see Toronto entertaining the idea of trading Kapanen for futures and certainly making other trades wouldn't be easy given the amount they'll be over the cap..

Might very well be a handshake agreement that the deal was for 2 years. Example: Marleau gets paid like 5M on July 1st 2019, he can then be traded to a team trying to reach the floor (Ottawa?) where his caphit is still 6.25 but he's owed only 1M and he can then retire.

 

[Legion34]

Babcock was being so salty today about the addition of another left shot to our blue line. Does he not understand that Kapanen/Johnsson would not be on the roster if they wanted to get a RHD ( like Pesce or Hamilton)? Clearly,
Muzzin without giving up anything on the roster > Pesce/Hamilton minus Johnsson/Kapanen.
The gap between these players is not big enough to justify the loss of Kapanen/Johnsson.
He is so dogmatic sometimes

Ummmmmm did you actually listen to him? The interview is online

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

Yes, as Mark Twain said Lies, damn lies and statistics!

Actually, Twain wrote that "There are three kind of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics" came from an English PM, Benjamin Disraeli.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Actually, Twain wrote that "There are three kind of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics" came from an English PM, Benjamin Disraeli.

Yes

 

[Man Bear Pig]

How about his ability to limit zone entries? Does that count?

I saw his chart beside hainseys on tv the other night. All I have to say is holy shit.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

But not as much as you thought in the earlier threads though eh? Have to part with one of Sandin, Kapanen or Liljegren right?

Liljegren?

 

[ToDavid]

Why are we still talking about this? It was a good fair deal for both sides. We will find out who did better in the long run years from now.

How many pages did we hit for the Leivo trade?

 

[Legion34]

Things will be tight next year, but they will not be over the cap if they use Horton's LTIR.

Let's assume the cap goes up by $4.5M (optimistc, I know) to $84M.

They now have 13 players signed for almost $60.3M.

Let's assume $25M to Matthews/Marner/Kapanen.

That's 16 players signed for $85.3M.

They need 5-6-7 more players.

Using Horton's LTIR, they'll have $4M available for these 5-6-7 players.

Their best semi-realistic scenario would be to get rid of Zaitsev, but it takes two to tango and they'll probably need to attach a significant sweetener to make that deal.

This has been done about a thousand times. You can do it on cap friendly yourself if you want. This isn’t true

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

This has been done about a thousand times. You can do it on cap friendly yourself if you want. This isn’t true

What do you mean ?

What fact is not true in what I wrote ?

 

[Legion34]

What do you mean ?

What fact is not true in what I wrote ?

That they will have an 85 million cap with 5-7 more players to sign.

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

That they will have an 85 million cap with 5-7 more players to sign.

And where did I err in my hypothesis ?

Fact: they now have $60.3M invested in 13 players (who do not include Matthews/Marner/Kapanen).

Assumption: Matthews/Marner/Kapanen will get $25M.

Total (if the assumption is correct): $85.3M with 16 players signed... QED