Be careful not to look to the opposite extreme. Personally, I won't consider Patrik a star until he at least repeats last season. For now, he's just an excellent player to me.
Confirmed with Link: Laine signs, 4 years 8.7 AAV
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Also in the same season scoring the most goals in the Finnish Liiga playoffs, being the key player for Tappara winning the championship and being voted as the MVP of Liiga playoffs. And this after being a few months before the best goal scorer and one of the best players in the gold medal winning Finnish U20 team. Then after the Liiga playoffs winning the WHC tournament’s MVP award and helping Finland to silver medals (just barely lost to Canada’s NHL star filled team in the final) in the tournament. All this as a 17-18 year old during the whole season. Truly one of the all time best seasons any junior player has had at that age. Here is in fact the best parts of that whole season for him.
And some people have been doubting how good a playoffs player he is? Just really funny, when all he has been doing his whole career is being an absolute key factor in winning the toughest and most important games. He continued like that when he played in the NHL playoffs for the Jets, and I’m absolutely sure the same will continue with the Blue Jackets, when they will return to the playoffs - hopefully already the starting season.
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World Juniors and World Championships are not the NHL playoffs.
While the WJC may have the best players of that age range, they are just kids.
The quality of play and players that play at the World Championships is also not comparable. Most of the goalies are almost always a clear tier below NHL guys and you have to really think how most NHL guys or guys with contracts treat that tournament. Sure, guys are trying to win, but they are not going 100%, or 110%, like in the NHL playoffs.
While the WJC may have the best players of that age range, they are just kids.
The quality of play and players that play at the World Championships is also not comparable. Most of the goalies are almost always a clear tier below NHL guys and you have to really think how most NHL guys or guys with contracts treat that tournament. Sure, guys are trying to win, but they are not going 100%, or 110%, like in the NHL playoffs.
World Juniors and World Championships are not the NHL playoffs.
EDIT: I have no idea how I broke the quote, but I can't fix it. Sorry Thebus88
Yet, he was the best or among the best Jets in the playoffs, too. So there.
EDIT: I have no idea how I broke the quote, but I can't fix it. Sorry Thebus88
You forgot beating FEL playoffs while being 17. FEL has some really good goalies, like Ville Husso (St. Louis Blues, now traded to Detroit) that Laine had to beat on finals. Certain Veini Vehviläinen, drafted by CBJ had by far the worst numbers of any goalies that FEL post season.
But Laine has been good also on NHL playoffs. Not dominant like on FEL, but winning his game, scoring more than he was scored against, which is the key to success on playoffs.
My numbers might be totally off as these are just from top of my head several years ago, but he might have been +12 -7 = +5 leadingn the team on 5-on-5 on his first and only proper playoff run 17-18.
Edit: according to Natural Stat Trick my numbers were indeed off: +13 -8 = +5. I think I used Corsica Hockey site back then.
Easternbull
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The key being Patrik has no nerves or shaky hands when the game us on the line, he wants to be on the ice in those situations.
And if it gets more physical, he gets more fired up. Laine could sometimes seem daydreaming in dec against ottawa but all over the ice in the playoffs.
One last thing his skating and conditioning has improved after working out with Sasha, but when talking to a collegue who played a lot against Patty when he was still in juniors in Finland, said" it was not just his incredible shoot, Laine was a very very fast skater, but because of his length and efortless skating style you dont notice it on tv"
And if it gets more physical, he gets more fired up. Laine could sometimes seem daydreaming in dec against ottawa but all over the ice in the playoffs.
One last thing his skating and conditioning has improved after working out with Sasha, but when talking to a collegue who played a lot against Patty when he was still in juniors in Finland, said" it was not just his incredible shoot, Laine was a very very fast skater, but because of his length and efortless skating style you dont notice it on tv"
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Keduzin
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That World Championship 2016 had such great and stacked rosters :
Canada : McDavid, Scheiffele, Duchene, Hall, Perry, Marchand, Reinhard, Jenner, Brassard, Ellis …
USA : Matthews, Larkin, Vatrano, Connor, Foligno, Nelson…
Russia : Ovechkin, Datsyuk, Panarin, Kutznetsov, Bobrovsky, Shipachev, Dadonov, Burmistrov, Orlov…
Finland : Barkov, Granlund, Koivu, Rantanen, Aho, Laine, Pokka, Komarov, Lindell…
Wish to see more of these kind of rosters in the future as well, both in the World cup and the World championships
Canada : McDavid, Scheiffele, Duchene, Hall, Perry, Marchand, Reinhard, Jenner, Brassard, Ellis …
USA : Matthews, Larkin, Vatrano, Connor, Foligno, Nelson…
Russia : Ovechkin, Datsyuk, Panarin, Kutznetsov, Bobrovsky, Shipachev, Dadonov, Burmistrov, Orlov…
Finland : Barkov, Granlund, Koivu, Rantanen, Aho, Laine, Pokka, Komarov, Lindell…
Wish to see more of these kind of rosters in the future as well, both in the World cup and the World championships
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Double-Shift Lasse
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There’s one.
Is there a site that shows this same comparison for all teams? One that ranks each team’s skaters by PPG?
Not sure. I just used nhl.com/stats, sorted by PPG and filtered by team. Don't know a site you could see all teams at once. Maybe filter with minimun number of games as well to get rid of noise.
Double-Shift Lasse
Just post better
This should be good - I need to do some of the work myself!
If you could post all the results here it would be awesome. Actually it might be thread worthy. Cumbersome thing, but I for one would appreciate it if you would go through it.
It seems there was a handful of guys around the league with similar separation to player with next best PPG (I used min 40 games played). Kaprizov, Panarin, Meier, JT Miller, Ovechkin, Laine. I probably forgot someone, I wasn't making notes. In many teams there are like two or three guys who are head and shoulders above the field, which makes sense. Laine played only 56 games, so there's a grain of salt with it, though IMO his play looked like he'd rather gone above than below that had he stayed healthy for the whole season.
Most seasons Laine has had an extended stretch of games where he is at the absolute top. He went without one in 19-20 and 20-21, but 18-19 he was leading the league in goals by end of November, 17-18 he had some kind of insane hot streak in Feb I think it was (and he finished only 2nd to Ovechkin in scoring). 16-17 he was just breaking records left and right, or maybe that's wrong thing to say, rather he was constantly featured in top lists of "youngest player to get X goals, X hat tricks, X whatever" and the guys next to him or right above him would be Gretzky, Lemieux etc. Then his streak this past season ofc.
I think that's how he build his reputation (the positive part of it) because it always seems like he's just a step away from dominating. I think it's partially misleading because he relies so much on elite shooting, so his goal scoring is always going to be streaky. The positive side is he's really quite complete offensive player these days and just his base level of play should get him around P/GP, then his streaks will determine whether that's with 30 or 50 goals, or something, you get the point.
One thing I've noticed he hasn't hit nearly as much as he did in his Jets days, I wonder if it's something he's changed or if he's just been trying to play a bit safe because of the injuries.
Most seasons Laine has had an extended stretch of games where he is at the absolute top. He went without one in 19-20 and 20-21, but 18-19 he was leading the league in goals by end of November, 17-18 he had some kind of insane hot streak in Feb I think it was (and he finished only 2nd to Ovechkin in scoring). 16-17 he was just breaking records left and right, or maybe that's wrong thing to say, rather he was constantly featured in top lists of "youngest player to get X goals, X hat tricks, X whatever" and the guys next to him or right above him would be Gretzky, Lemieux etc. Then his streak this past season ofc.
I think that's how he build his reputation (the positive part of it) because it always seems like he's just a step away from dominating. I think it's partially misleading because he relies so much on elite shooting, so his goal scoring is always going to be streaky. The positive side is he's really quite complete offensive player these days and just his base level of play should get him around P/GP, then his streaks will determine whether that's with 30 or 50 goals, or something, you get the point.
One thing I've noticed he hasn't hit nearly as much as he did in his Jets days, I wonder if it's something he's changed or if he's just been trying to play a bit safe because of the injuries.
jepjepjoo
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1. J.T Miller +0.35
2. Panarin +0.28 (if you omit Copp with only 18gp)
3.Kane +0.23
4.Laine +0.22
Players with over 20% better ppg than the next best teammate
Miller 39.3%
Laine 28.2%
Panarin 28%
Meier 26.9%
Kane 24.2%
I'm guessing many posters here also listened to Laine's presser after signing the deal. He did suggest his NHL playoff experience is something he hopes makes him a better player and teammate come future playoff series. His reflection revealed to me he's thinking about his overall game as a professional, and I agree, he's good in the big games and recognizes the importance of improving by being more consistent. I'm excited we get to watch him for the next four seasons.
Double-Shift Lasse
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Thanks jep. That’s a start at what I was looking for.
I don’t think that one stat is enough to say Laine is elite. Unless we’re saying that Miller and Meier are elite.
jepjepjoo
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I have the full list too if someone is interested. I'm on my phone right now but I can post it later.
I would say to be considered elite on that basis, you would probably have to have more than one season in that fashion. Ironic that it’s practically 100% sure that next season he won’t have that kind of a difference to the next one, and most probably he won't even be the one with the best PPG, but most probably he will still have his most productive season ever, if he can avoid injuries.
Would be definitely interesting, so please post it when you can.
traffic cone
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In terms of playing big games and in high pressure situations it definitely tells something if you’ve succeeded in things like the WJC elimination games, AHL/Liiga/KHL etc. playoffs, or the Memorial Cup for example. Steve Yzerman just said in an interview how beneficial it is for their prospects to get this kind of big games under their belt.
Handling pressure is not something that just comes by itself with age. If you think Laine isn’t fit for the playoff type high pressure situations then you can have your opinion. Goes along well with the other opinions you have of him.
Even if he went 50+50 and was the CBJ’s best point producer in the playoffs I’m sure you still would find some advanced metric or something to show how he really was a liability instead.
Marioesque
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Some people have pigeonholed Laine and will never let go of it either. It's strange but HFboards is. Can't please 'em all.
It’s the off-season.
Wait until the season start and he actually does something meaningful in worthwhile games.
The last 2 years should be looked at as BOTH in the past, since that’s how Laine (and his fans) think we should look at his seasons when he plays like trash, at the very least they should cancel each other out.
Wait until the season start and he actually does something meaningful in worthwhile games.
The last 2 years should be looked at as BOTH in the past, since that’s how Laine (and his fans) think we should look at his seasons when he plays like trash, at the very least they should cancel each other out.
True, but if you add that he was also winning his game having 25 goals better even strength goal differential than another TOP-6 forward on the team that played least amount of minutes with Laine (now a Seattle Kraken). Combine those two stats, and it's no more a single stat.
J.T. Miller scored 99 points and was 9th in the NHL scoring race (with 14th best pace), and by all means every TOP-10 scorers on 1004 player league is either elite player or at least had an elite season.
Haven't really followed Meier who had just a slightly lower PPG than Laine last season. Career wise they are 0.67 for Meier, 0.71 for J.T.Miller, 0.80 for Laine (just for a comparison sake, Voracek is at 0.76). So career numbers for Meier and J.T.Miller are really good, but not elite. But J.T. Miller has got better and better as he ages.
So will you still hold against him the first injury ridden Columbus season even if he has as good season as last season or an even better season this season? So far I at least suspect that even how good a season he might have, you will be trying to find reasons to make him look bad.
I will never get your type of fans - even when a player they have disliked plays well, they will just keep on blaming the player and creating issues out of thin air, even when all kind of evidence proves that the player is doing well in what he is supposed to be good at, and is not really bad for the team at all - on the contrary is helping the team to win, which has been proven even to you with the Columbus stats with and without Laine last season.
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So far he has had 4 and half really good seasons (all of them MUCH better than your favorite player ever had), and 1 and half that were crippled by bad injuries and were just BAD.
If you think that 1.5 BAD seasons (latter half of 18-19 and 20-21 sans the 1st game) cancels out 4.5 GOOD seasons (16-17, 17-18, first half of 18-19, 19-20 & 21-22), too bad so sad, can't help you.
Healthy Laine is good. Fingers crossed for a healthy season for him & Johnny.
I guess the thing that I value with that PPG is that the party line on Laine is that he needs to be setup or he is useless. Well. It proves he isn't, so that's one of the advanced stats watchers nonsense dealt with.
