Confirmed with Link: Laine signs, 4 years 8.7 AAV

Marioesque

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Oct 7, 2021
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The last 2 years should be looked at as BOTH in the past, since that’s how Laine (and his fans) think we should look at his seasons when he plays like trash, at the very least they should cancel each other out.

Ok, so they cancel each other out then. Are you now giving him a clean slate, a fresh start? :D

Because it doesn't sound like that.

What kind of gains are you imagining to get from hoping for a failure of a player?
 

NotCommitted

Registered User
Jul 4, 2013
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It’s the off-season.

Wait until the season start and he actually does something meaningful in worthwhile games.

The last 2 years should be looked at as BOTH in the past, since that’s how Laine (and his fans) think we should look at his seasons when he plays like trash, at the very least they should cancel each other out.

That's not how life works, and I'm not sure where that is supposed to leave things? Because they "cancel" each other we're just all supposed to nod our heads and go he's a crappy player, or what's the point you are making? Besides, If they cancel each other out, I'm pretty sure that's actually benefical for Laine's overall career numbers ;) He's 7th in goals with 0.81P/GP for his career pre 20-21.

You seem to imply he sucks in "meaningful" games and only does anything on garbage time Tuesdays. The most meaningful games they played last season were in the winter when they had a good stretch and actually looked like a team who have a chance at making the playoffs. Laine played excellent then, but because in the end they didn't make it, I guess now those games are just garbage and he didn't "do anything", like there isn't over 20 other guys in the team? He doesn't have a lot of playoffs experience in the NHL, but he was the MVP for playoffs in a championship winning team in Liiga and has a very good track record in international games.

You blame other people for ignoring his bad play, but you seem to be doing the opposite by making 20-21 the most important bit, which btw. amounts to 11% of his career reg. season NHL games and is a clear outlier even compared to his other "bad season" (18-19).

Both 20-21 & 21-22 happened, and I think 21-22 is way more likely to happen again, you of course are free to have a different opinion on that.

Yes it's the off-season, CBJ just signed JG and extended Laine and it seems quite likely they could be killer together, maybe it's ok for people to be hyped up without you needing to set them straight?
 

LJ7

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Mar 19, 2021
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I guess the thing that I value with that PPG is that the party line on Laine is that he needs to be setup or he is useless. Well. It proves he isn't, so that's one of the advanced stats watchers nonsense dealt with.
The "Laine needs a star 1C/setup guy" take was a popular excuse/attempted rationale for his 20-21 season. 21-22 proved it wasn't true. In order for him to be an effective player he doesn't need anything special, he just needs to play effectively :laugh:

Now for him to take the next step from being a good player to a Rocket Richard candidate he does need the right linemates. This isn't unique to him, even McDavid and Draisaitl leveled up in the playoffs due to them getting the right 3rd guy on their line in Evander Kane. Gaudreau took a leap last season when he got linemates that supported him and capitalized on what he does. Linemates weren't the difference between Laine's 20-21 and 21-22 season, but in order for him to rise to a truly elite production level (50 goals) I think it will require Gaudreau's help.
 

Ippenator

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Jan 6, 2016
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The "Laine needs a star 1C/setup guy" take was a popular excuse/attempted rationale for his 20-21 season. 21-22 proved it wasn't true. In order for him to be an effective player he doesn't need anything special, he just needs to play effectively :laugh:

Now for him to take the next step from being a good player to a Rocket Richard candidate he does need the right linemates. This isn't unique to him, even McDavid and Draisaitl leveled up in the playoffs due to them getting the right 3rd guy on their line in Evander Kane. Gaudreau took a leap last season when he got linemates that supported him and capitalized on what he does. Linemates weren't the difference between Laine's 20-21 and 21-22 season, but in order for him to rise to a truly elite production level (50 goals) I think it will require Gaudreau's help.
Well said. But in fact it came to my mind that it has been extremely rare for any player to score over 50 goals without playing with at least one elite linemate. Well, Ovechkin did it at some point of the beginning of his NHL career, but generally I would say that it really is an absolute rarity to happen. What other cases can people remember? I can’t remember many at least
 
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Marioesque

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Well said. But in fact it came to my mind that it has been extremely rare for any player to score over 50 goals without playing with at least one elite linemate. Well, Ovechkin did it at some point of the beginning of his NHL career, but generally I would say that it really is an absolute rarity to happen. What other cases can people remember? I can’t remember many at least

Selanne rookie year had no real stars in his line but Phil Housley on the backend was his big booster.
 
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DarkandStormy

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Apr 29, 2014
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Bjorky has 12 GWG in his career. Laine has 25.

Last two seasons:

1658858890518.png


For Laine to live up to the value of his deal, he basically needs to be 40-40-80 every season.

FO is basically hoping he regains his form from *checks notes* 2017-2018.
 

CBJx614

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May 25, 2012
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Last two seasons:

View attachment 572679

For Laine to live up to the value of his deal, he basically needs to be 40-40-80 every season.

FO is basically hoping he regains his form from *checks notes* 2017-2018.
His first season here is an abysmal outlier. I think it's fair to assume the rest of his career will look much closer to last season than the season before that.
 

Columbus Jack

He's from Columbus
Nov 25, 2009
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Last two seasons:

View attachment 572679

For Laine to live up to the value of his deal, he basically needs to be 40-40-80 every season.

FO is basically hoping he regains his form from *checks notes* 2017-2018.
What's hilarious about this is that he was on pace for 40-40 minus two goals just this past year without Johnny.

Bank on more than 40 goals next year.
 

Xoggz22

Registered User
Mar 4, 2002
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Last two seasons:

View attachment 572679

For Laine to live up to the value of his deal, he basically needs to be 40-40-80 every season.

FO is basically hoping he regains his form from *checks notes* 2017-2018.
Maybe there are prior discussions around this but not sure why you cherry picked the last two years when 20-21 was the clear anomaly in his history. I don't disagree with you that he needs to be damn close to a PPG player for the next 4 years but *checks notes" he actually had higher PPG in 2016-2017, 2019-2020 and 2021-2022 than in 2017-2018 so if that's the standard, he's already done it three times by the age of 24.

As a whole, you can go back the full length of Laine's career and his point total is 0.80PPG (0.85 if you throw out the first year in Columbus as an anomaly), whereas Bjorkstrand is 0.61PPG over the same time frame (back to Laine's rookie year). I'm not crapping on Bjorkstrand but if stats are going to be used for measure I think a large sample set would be in order. They are two different players so I also think it's difficult to put them head to head but that's where we are based on the recent moves.

Personally, I don't think 0.85PPG will be good enough to justify the contract as a win but if that means 40g, 30a, I think the contract will be worth it. I agree with you the idea of 40-40-80 would be more in line with deal but if the team is better, than all the moves as a whole might be considered a positive reflection on the off season.
 

jepjepjoo

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Dec 31, 2002
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Would be definitely interesting, so please post it when you can.
TeamNamePPG1st to 2nd%
ANATerry0.89+0.08+9.9%
ARIKeller/Schmaltz0.94even0%
BOSMarchand1.14+0.07+6.5%
BUFThompson0.87+0.08+10.1%
CALGaudreau1.40+0.13+10.2%
CARAho1.03+0.15+17%
CHIKane1.18+0.23+24.2%
COLMackinnon1.35+0.12+9.8%
CBJLaine1.00+0.22+28.2%
DALRobertson1.07+0.08+8.1%
DETLarkin0.97+0.06+6.6%
EDMMcDavid1.54+0.16+11.6%
FLAHuberdeau1.44+0.13+9.9%
LAKKopitar0.83+0.04+5.1%
MINKaprizov1.33+0.20+17.7%
MTLSuzuki0.74+0.04+5.7%
NSHForsberg1.22+0.02+1.74%
NJDHughes1.14+0.18+18.8%
NYINelson0.82+0.01+1.2%
NYRPanarin1.28+0.28+28%
OTTBatherson0.96+0.11+12.9%
PHIGiroux0.74+0.06+8.8%
PITCrosby1.22+0.11+9.1%
SJSMeier0.99+0.21+26.9%
SEAMcCann0.68+0.03+4.6%
STLTarasenko1.09+0.02+1.9%
TBLKucherov1.47+0.16+12.2%
TORMatthews1.45+0.10+7.4%
VANMiller1.24+0.35+39.3%
VGKPacioretty0.95+0.08+9.2%
WSHOvechkin1.17+0.18+18.2%
WPGConnor1.18+0.14+13.5%
 

VT

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Jan 24, 2021
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@thebus88 Did Laine (and not only him but, for example Gavrikov and Peeke too) eat your supper or what when you only see bad things on him? Why didn't you say any problems about your favourite players like Bjorkie? I had no problem to write Laine's problems in his play but I never see it from you. I have feeling that according to you he is nothing without his partners in the line and even if Bob from the wild forests of Alaska will be in the line with him, you would write how dependent Patrik is on him.
 

Marioesque

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Oct 7, 2021
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Laine doesn't get a good super advanced subjective stat PEL (perceived effort level) from some people so they decide he just sucks. Because perceived effort level is what truly counts in hockey, not goals or wins.

"He plays Fortnite 25 hours a day and rumor has it that he's asking for 11 million. The nerve!"
 

Double-Shift Lasse

Just post better
Dec 22, 2004
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Laine doesn't get a good super advanced subjective stat PEL (perceived effort level) from some people so they decide he just sucks. Because perceived effort level is what truly counts in hockey, not goals or wins.

"He plays Fortnite 25 hours a day and rumor has it that he's asking for 11 million. The nerve!"
I’ve not read a single person in this thread mention Fortnite among their concerns about Laine. That’s a strawman of your own making.

I made it pretty clear my concern is about his play. It’s been implied 1) that I didn’t understand it 2) that I just have something against him personally and 3) that I don’t care about results. I genuinely asked for stats to support the notion that he’s elite - I was given one and I wondered if it didn’t show that he was very good rather than elite. I was told that he has shown the ability to be elite in stretches and glimpses and assured that he will do so again and more.

So this current discussion is really just between people who are certain he is elite and people who aren’t so sure but will wait and see. That’s it.

I again find myself with nothing to say about Laine except to tell people who are sure they know what I think of him that that’s not what I think of him. Boring.
 
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VT

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Jan 24, 2021
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More comments like these and I'm sure he'll break Teemu Selanne's record for most goals by a Finnish player in the NHL (76). 😎 Let's be honest, he's a great player, but an elite player needs to have more seasons like that, with more than 1PPG. I like him, but what's a lot is a lot.
 

VT

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The collision of Laine superfans with thebus88 is like the perfect shitstorm of persecution complexes coming together. I am loving it. :D
These are the two extremes. On the one hand, someone who, diplomatically speaking, hates Laine, on the other hand, those for whom he is God, The Son and The Holy spirit. 😉

EDIT: I don't mean, for example @majormajor or @Double-Shift Lasse as his haters, of course.
 
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Marioesque

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I’ve not read a single person in this thread mention Fortnite among their concerns about Laine. That’s a strawman of your own making.

I made it pretty clear my concern is about his play. It’s been implied 1) that I didn’t understand it 2) that I just have something against him personally and 3) that I don’t care about results. I genuinely asked for stats to support the notion that he’s elite - I was given one and I wondered if it didn’t show that he was very good rather than elite. I was told that he has shown the ability to be elite in stretches and glimpses and assured that he will do so again and more.

So this current discussion is really just between people who are certain he is elite and people who aren’t so sure but will wait and see. That’s it.

We again find myself with nothing to say about Laine except to tell people who are sure they know what I think of him that that’s not what I think of him. Boring.

It wasn't for you but the generic Laine haters who regurgitate the same cliches year after year, as if nothing he does on the ice can drop the stigma. There are those who are convinced Laine has a few gears more and those who don't, then there's those who just hate because it's not about reason for them.

I find the argument of him being elite stronger than the argument of him being garbage. So much more evidence for elite. Just needs to stay healthy now. I wouldn't be shocked about 1.3 ppg. The circumstances are finally there
 

DeeQ

Registered User
Apr 1, 2017
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The collision of Laine superfans with thebus88 is like the perfect shitstorm of persecution complexes coming together. I am loving it. :D
It's amazing how hyperbolic the discussion around Laine is. It's been happening since before he was even drafted when he was playing in Finland. He has many very, very enthusiastic fans and then he gets the most weirdest hate comments from some people who dislike him no matter what (not talking about this CBJ forum, just in general over the years).

I guess it's because of how he plays hockey. When he's really on, he looks better than Gretzky scoring 5 goals a game (please don't come at me thebus88, I'm obviously being hyperbolic) and when he has a bad game he looks like me trying to skate for the first time (still hyperbolic, no need for defending!).

Hopefully he can be more consistent in the future and the discussion around him becomes more hmm... boring :D
 
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traffic cone

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The collision of Laine superfans with thebus88 is like the perfect shitstorm of persecution complexes coming together. I am loving it. :D
You can replace ”Laine” with any elite talent and it’s just mind boggling that a fan - especially of an organization that has mostly had these grinder type balanced lineups and has had a hard time keeping it’s star players (which are needed to win the Cup if you look at the past winners) - has such negativity towards the player of this kind.

There are tons of fans in Winnipeg who had the same negativity in the past and would now want Patrik Laine back there if given the option.

Again, isn’t about some Laine superfans. Replace ”Laine” with any other such talent. Argument stays the same.
 

majormajor

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Jun 23, 2018
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You can replace ”Laine” with any elite talent and it’s just mind boggling that a fan - especially of an organization that has mostly had these grinder type balanced lineups and has had a hard time keeping it’s star players (which are needed to win the Cup if you look at the past winners) - has such negativity towards the player of this kind.

There are tons of fans in Winnipeg who had the same negativity in the past and would now want Patrik Laine back there if given the option.

Again, isn’t about some Laine superfans. Replace ”Laine” with any other such talent. Argument stays the same.

I don't think you can replace Laine's name with some other talent. He's a unique player with a unique set of superfans, and detractors. There's no other player that has this sort of discussion around him.

I guess it's because of how he plays hockey. When he's really on, he looks better than Gretzky scoring 5 goals a game (please don't come at me thebus88, I'm obviously being hyperbolic) and when he has a bad game he looks like me trying to skate for the first time (still hyperbolic, no need for defending!).

That's a big part of it. When he's good he's really good and when he's bad he's really bad. There's plenty of evidence to choose from if you bring an agenda on either side.
 
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Columbus Jack

He's from Columbus
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I’ve not read a single person in this thread mention Fortnite among their concerns about Laine. That’s a strawman of your own making.

I made it pretty clear my concern is about his play. It’s been implied 1) that I didn’t understand it 2) that I just have something against him personally and 3) that I don’t care about results. I genuinely asked for stats to support the notion that he’s elite - I was given one and I wondered if it didn’t show that he was very good rather than elite. I was told that he has shown the ability to be elite in stretches and glimpses and assured that he will do so again and more.

So this current discussion is really just between people who are certain he is elite and people who aren’t so sure but will wait and see. That’s it.

We again find myself with nothing to say about Laine except to tell people who are sure they know what I think of him that that’s not what I think of him. Boring.

I think Laine has an elite shot with potential to become an elite player. His overall game isn't there (elite wise imo although it could be argued), but the shot most definitely is.

The encouraging thing I saw last year was how much better he made the team and how dangerous he was when he was playing well.

There are definitely reasons to doubt his game, he is streaky and appears to be lazy when not playing well. I didn't see a lot of that last year, there's going to be streaks good and bad but there's been less bad compared to two years ago.

Within the next 2 years, there will be a consensus of how good he is and what he is as a player. Every time Laine has a bad stretch, the doubters will come out and when Laine is scoring goals, the supporters will be posting. It's truly ebb and flow.

What this team as a whole needs to figure out is if Laine at 8.7 million is worth it and just how good should he be for that kind of money.

Sure, I can see the possibility of him being a lazy player with a cannon who scores 30 goals and is a turnover machine. You're foolish to think that couldnt happen, especially with how many injuries he's had. Maybe he gets injured and is never the same.

Here's the thing, he's signed for 4 years, even if he's overpaid, 30 goals a year isnt bad. He's a constant threat and that is worth something.

Other scenario, Laine continues to progress and works on his overall game which allows his playmaking ability start to shine. He improves away from the puck which opens up more opportunities to score and add assists.

He's not a finished product, there's more to be developed and improved upon. He also has the drive to improve, you dont take 4 years because you want to mail it in.

He wants superstar money, he wants to prove it. Let him do it and see who he is after this contract.
 

Viqsi

"that chick from Ohio"
Oct 5, 2007
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It wasn't for you but the generic Laine haters who regurgitate the same cliches year after year, as if nothing he does on the ice can drop the stigma. There are those who are convinced Laine has a few gears more and those who don't, then there's those who just hate because it's not about reason for them.

I find the argument of him being elite stronger than the argument of him being garbage. So much more evidence for elite. Just needs to stay healthy now. I wouldn't be shocked about 1.3 ppg. The circumstances are finally there

Quite a few people here don't think either can be reasonably concluded at this time.
 
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