Confirmed with Link: Laine signs, 4 years 8.7 AAV

[LJ7]

I get this but…

Why is Laine a guy who Gaudreau will make look good?

Laine's shot will be set up more frequently and he won't need to carry the puck as much therefore less turnovers (his biggest flaw). Gaudreau himself is a dual threat and can capitalize off Laine's gravity and passing better than Voracek can. Entering the zone and getting the puck up ice is another Gaudreau strength that will benefit Laine. All of Laine's strengths will be put to better use and many of his weaknesses will be covered by Gaudreau. To me Gaudreau is on a very short list of ideal Laine linemates of all hockey players in the world honestly.

I also use Tkachuk as an analog for this. Gaudreau seems to have the midas touch with how his linemates produce. I seriously expect a career year from Laine next season.

Why can’t he just look good all on his own?

I think he did, he played well last season and was our best forward even without really killing it on the powerplay which was a great sign to me. Sure he was mercurial but last season he was a real positive difference maker for us. However I will concede that Gaudreau coming here makes me a lot more comfortable with him making 8.7 million for 4 years.

If Gaudreau has made worse players than Laine look good, couldn’t we just play him with a guy who’s worse than Laine and makes less money?

We could but Gaudreau had his best season last year when he was actually put on a line with players that brought value in their own regard. Tkachuk has some specific high level skills that helped Gaudreau, and Laine has some that I think will help Gaudreau's good plays result in goals on the board. While Laine certainly needs Gaudreau more than vice versa, Gaudreau will still likely be helped by Laine's particular skills. It isn't a total one way street there. I see it as symbiotic.

Obviously need to qualify all of this with the fact it's all on paper and there is a chance they don't work well for whatever reason, I just think it's very very very likely they're a strong duo.

 

[Columbus Jack]

I understand your concern as you got to used to abysmal 20-21 CBJ Laine (omitting that 1 fantastic game as a Jet before an injury). As that was the baseline, I can also get that the stellar 21-22 performance (1.00PPG difference maker on a team with the next best having only 0.78PPG) was not enough to convince you he really is the elite talent he was projected to be since 16-17, regardless some seasons crippled with injuries.

Scoring on a pace 28% more than the second best of your team (the 2nd best being pretty good player, Voracek) while being one of the couple net neutral / positive 5-on-5 guys on a badly losing team is quite something.

Like Jarmo, I am convinced we haven't seen nearly the best Laine yet. Fingers crossed he stays healthy and he will tear it up with or without Johnny. Obviously 10-20 points more with Johnny than without him, but he has shown he is capable for 1PPG even without high end talent around him.

The bolded above is what really made me believe he's the real deal. He was simply the most dangerous player on the team and the team was good when Laine was good. The issue and I think many people feel this way, is how often do we get "good Laine".

There were some very interesting advanced stats that @majormajor highlighted specifically about just how much more he was doing in the offensive zone. I think Lars has truly had a good impact on him making his overall game improve. That's the thing with Laine, everyone knows he has one of the best shots in the league but can he be effective when he's not scoring. For me, I saw him take a huge step up. He was driving the play more and making things happen for his teammates. Having Jake, another competent player certainly helped that as well. I'd say his play last year was a complete 180 from his first year here.

Johnny also will help his game and his stats but I think you could split them up and make two great lines. Gaudreau could help anyone score goals, I'd like to see Laine continue to develop his overall game by making other players better and not necessarily just tear it up with a great playmaker. Although that works too. There's so many more options now with two great players, next season should be fun.

 

[Murky]

Not all good players are line drivers or even strong possession players. They are completely overhyped qualities because those qualities are easier to form into statistic models than many others. Brett Hull was insanely terrible at many things but I am sure no one will argue he was not elite? None of it mattered because Oates was equally awesome in all those other things. Not that Laine is Hull.

Laine is a game breaker and unfair player in a way that he will score with no real opportunity to do so. No statistic model will give him any credit for that. Pair Laine with Gaudreau and CBJ might have something nice there. Laine is at his best when he doesn't have the puck at all. It should just be passed to him for one timers or quick wristers. As soon as he is trying to generate offense he starts to do all kinds of bad things that show up in statistics. With Gaudreau he doesn't have to do those things nearly as often. And with all that said Laine was still by far the best offensive player CBJ had last year.

On a flip side so you all won't start feeling too nice, Bryan Little was a line driver and it never worked with Laine. The obvious difference is that Little was the exact kind that the statistics overvaluate - useless buzzing in corners ending with equally useless pass or shot. Gaudreau is nothing like that.

 

[LJ7]

Laine is at his best when he doesn't have the puck at all. It should just be passed to him for one timers or quick wristers. As soon as he is trying to generate offense he starts to do all kinds of bad things that show up in statistics.

I think he did show some good passing last season, and he will likely be a better passer with Gaudreau on his line because he'll have easier decisions to make. Agreed on just about all other fronts though

 

[Marioesque]

Laine is a game breaker and unfair player in a way that he will score with no real opportunity to do so. No statistic model will give him any credit for that. Pair Laine with Gaudreau and CBJ might have something nice there. Laine is at his best when he doesn't have the puck at all. It should just be passed to him for one timers or quick wristers.

Jarmo has always known this about Laine and looks like he wanted to unlock that unfairness by getting Gaudreau. As we have seen, Laine CAN be a setup man and is a very good passer but he is an elite shooter and an unfair advantage if used correctly, enabled the right way. Best use of his time from team perspective would be to find open space and be ready to score when the team has the puck. It's been difficult to find the space because after like the first month of his NHL career, teams defenses already started to cover him specifically so he'd have no room or time to shoot, they had realized that he's a threat from ranges that usually are not threatening. Now if you have someone focusing on just staying close to Laine to prevent shots, Johnny can use all that time and space and find the net himself. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

 

[VT]

Wasn't sure which thread this should go in because I'm sorting through my thoughts around all of what's happened personnel-wise this offseason. But I think this is the most appropriate spot because I think Laine is the crux of the matter. Also, I think I've got some clarity the more I hear local media recap everything.

That recap focuses on the idea that Gaudreau and Laine (and maybe, someday soon, KJ, plus a guy like Voracek) give the Jackets elite scoring, which is an important aspect on building a roster that can compete for whatever. That may well prove out, but I think my hesitancy to embrace the elation over this new "elite"-ness is my feeling about Patrik.

I know there's data to show one thing or another, and I am not concerned about him as a human being. I just haven't been convinced with my eyes and brain that he's a dominant, game-breaking talent. I just feel like his (on-ice) reputation outweighs what I actually see him bring/contribute.

I'm happy to be wrong. I'm prepared to embrace him as a talent and a personality. But he just fallen short for me thus far.

And so, I wonder about his contract, which seems like a near-elite kind of scenario and I'm not feeling it. And I wonder about Bjorkstrand, about who I feel confident in what I'm getting (especially for the cost) and in whom I was vested as a fan on a couple levels.

That's where I'm at.

Laine has shown he can play with slightly above average forwards and still make them better, see the Nyquist -- Jenner -- Laine line that gave us a chance to play in the PO and when Patrik scored the important goals. Btw I think the would play together to have two strong lines.

By your logic Toronto shouldn't connect Marner and Matthews, Calgary Tkachuk and Gaudreau, Montreal Suzuki and Caufield etc. Or Edmonton McDavid and Draisaitl in the PO.

I wonder how many goals that cheaper player would have scored with Gaudreau.

I get the feeling that some people always have to find something to like about Laine, on the contrary, Bjorkie was a saint. Understand me right, I like Bjorkie but we must be fair. An not only look for errors on one and only praise the other.

 

[VT]

I understand your concern as you got to used to abysmal 20-21 CBJ Laine (omitting that 1 fantastic game as a Jet before an injury). As that was the baseline, I can also get that the stellar 21-22 performance (1.00PPG difference maker on a team with the next best having only 0.78PPG) was not enough to convince you he really is the elite talent he was projected to be since 16-17, regardless some seasons crippled with injuries.

Scoring on a pace 28% more than the second best of your team (the 2nd best being pretty good player, Voracek) while being one of the couple net neutral / positive 5-on-5 guys on a badly losing team is quite something.

Like Jarmo, I am convinced we haven't seen nearly the best Laine yet. Fingers crossed he stays healthy and he will tear it up with or without Johnny. Obviously 10-20 points more with Johnny than without him, but he has shown he is capable for 1PPG even without high end talent around him.

It will soon be explained to you how not Laine but Jenner and Nyquist were important.
----
Unlike Murky I don't think Laine is just a man - one timer (like Jenner just a grinder etc). And we should take advantage of that.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Laine has shown he can play with slightly above average forwards and still make them better, see the Nyquist -- Jenner -- Laine line that gave us a chance to play in the PO and when Patrik scored the important goals.

By your logic Toronto shouldn't connect Marner and Matthews, Calgary Tkachuk and Gaudreau, Montreal Suzuki and Caufield etc. Or Edmonton McDavid and Draisaitl in the PO.

I wonder how many goals that cheaper player would have scored with Gaudreau.

I get the feeling that some people always have to find something to like about Laine, on the contrary, Bjorkie was a saint. Yes, Laine isn't ideal but I never see to write about Bjorkie. Only how he's underrated, better than Laine, even one of the best players in NHL.

You are inferring a lot of things in this reply to my post that I didn't say, including some things that I specfically mentioned were not my thinking -- see my points about how I've never had concerns about him off the ice. I don't think poor Patrik needs you to stick up for him.

I don't understand at all how you decided anything in my post had to do with not playing Marner and Matthews together, for example.

I will simplify my post, in case that's where the problem comes from:

Laine's game does not scream elite, game-breaking talent to me. Yet he has a reputation as such, and the CBJ have agreed to pay him at least a salary that approaches that. Those things concern me.

 

[VT]

You are inferring a lot of things in this reply to my post that I didn't say, including some things that I specfically mentioned were not my thinking -- see my points about how I've never had concerns about him off the ice. I don't think poor Patrik needs you to stick up for him.

I don't understand at all how you decided anything in my post had to do with not playing Marner and Matthews together, for example.

I will simplify my post, in case that's where the problem comes from:

Laine's game does not scream elite, game-breaking talent to me. Yet he has a reputation as such, and the CBJ have agreed to pay him at least a salary that approaches that. Those things concern me.

You are inferring a lot of things in this reply to my post that I didn't say, including some things that I specfically mentioned were not my thinking -- see my points about how I've never had concerns about him off the ice. I don't think poor Patrik needs you to stick up for him.

I don't understand at all how you decided anything in my post had to do with not playing Marner and Matthews together, for example.

I will simplify my post, in case that's where the problem comes from:

Laine's game does not scream elite, game-breaking talent to me. Yet he has a reputation as such, and the CBJ have agreed to pay him at least a salary that approaches that. Those things concern me.

I was just pointing out some things. About the twos, that was covered in another post (not your) I just summarized it into one.

I never claimed a that he was a breakout talent (although he can break games), but your words impressed me that he is dependent on teammates. If that's not the case, I apologize.

I know it has many errors, and if you remember, I've written them more than once. But I feel like he's the only one who has them. That's the only thing that seems strange to me, nothing more.

 

[Halberdier]

Laine's game does not scream elite, game-breaking talent to me. Yet he has a reputation as such, and the CBJ have agreed to pay him at least a salary that approaches that. Those things concern me.

His results from last season did scream elite, game-breaking talent.

It's okay to not prefer or understand the playing style of some players. Happens to all of us, often towards different players though. But I am huge believer of results myself.

According to NHL.com, these were Laine's TOP-5 (+1) plays from the last season. I don't agree with all of them being his TOP-10 plays, but they aren't too bad:

 

[VT]

Jeho výsledky z minulej sezóny kričali medzi elitný talent, ktorý prelomil hru.

Je v poriadku nepreferovať alebo pochopiť herný štýl niektorých hráčov. Stáva sa to každému z nás, často však rôznym hráčom. Ale ja osobne veľmi verím vo výsledky.

Podľa NHL.com to boli Laineho TOP-5 (+1) hry z minulej sezóny. Nesúhlasím s tým, že všetky sú jeho TOP 10 hrami, ale nie sú také zlé:

This video doesn't say anything, this kind of thing can be found in most players.

@Marioesque O.K. we should the strong line with Gaudreau and Laine. But other? Nobody can win only with one line. That's why I think Gaudreau could play with Chinakhov/Marchenko and Voracek/Nyquist with Laine.

 

[Marioesque]

This video doesn't say anything, this kind of thing can be found in most players.

This kind of reel can't be found about others though, if you look at the shots.

 

[Halberdier]

This video doesn't say anything, this kind of thing can be found in most players.

Well, not from most when you consider that top-1 one for example. While it's true, that highlights aren't any proof, they can show some of the upside we are talking about.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

His results from last season did scream elite, game-breaking talent.

It's okay to not prefer or understand the playing style of some players. Happens to all of us, often towards different players though. But I am huge believer of results myself.

According to NHL.com, these were Laine's TOP-5 (+1) plays from the last season. I don't agree with all of them being his TOP-10 plays, but they aren't too bad:

What results make him elite? I’m genuinely asking the question and not arguing/challenging your point.

Also, let’s try not to make this about not “understanding” a style of play. That assumes that commenters in question, namely me, lack that understanding.

 

[Marioesque]

Also interesting how awful the PP was and how much better it will get with the addition of Gaudreau. I think Jarmo said it himself that Laine is one of the best PP players in the league and I agree with that. It's crazy that he was kept to only 5 PP goals last season but that will not happen again

 

[VT]

I'll make it short. Next season will answer all our questions, confirm/refute our opinions.

 

[Halberdier]

What results make him elite? I’m genuinely asking the question and not arguing/challenging your point.

Also, let’s try not to make this about not “understanding” a style of play. That assumes that commenters in question, namely me, lack that understanding.

1PPG when the next best guy was 0.78 and his most common linemates were 0.75 and 0.65. All that with tied lead of even strength goal differential (+3) with Domi on a team that was losing, so the points were not made in expense of cheating at defensive side of things etc. Also the team was (barely) making it into playoffs with Laine, while without him it was nowhere close (you can find jepjepjoo's post from this thread).

When you are head and shoulders above players usually considered as good such as Voracek & Bjorkstrand, either that is elite, or then those considered good should be just mediocre.

Ps. I had no intentions to make any kind of insult by that "understanding", but the fact is there are like 600-700 NHL players and there is literally no-one that knows their play perfectly.

I'll make it short. Next season will answer all our questions, confirm/refute our opinions.

Indeed.

 

[ThirdPeriodTurtle]

Laine is probably one of the most intriguing players in the whole league - glimpses of super stardom but more deficiencies than you see from any other big star. But like others have said here, Gaudreau could bring out the best of Laine and vice versa. Gaudreau seemingly has many of the attributes that Laine lacks - namely getting the puck over the offensive blue line. The amount of times Laine lost the puck near the offensive blue line last season was pretty high to my eye test. He's also seen circling high in d-zone when the opposition scores (not necessarily his fault but many times I felt "he could've prevented that goal" with a better defensive play). Very frustrating at times.

And yet he's an exciting player to watch too, on the super star level - and I think that's what his reputation is built on, and he gets paid for those exciting moments (+ potential, still). Those one-timers are lethal, and he's got a good eye for passes (sometimes too good, as the pass is too difficult or the receiving player fumbles it - I remember Atkinson failed to convert on a good pass in one of Laine's first games, and that forever tainted my view on Atkinson).

Last season he was definitely better than previously from an effort standpoint (he didn't give up on the backchecks). If he can continue to develop in this way then he can still become better - and this consistency was what he said he still needs to work on, to get the bad days closer to the good days.

I got lost in the Laine video rabbithole (thanks!) and thought to share this one: WC 2016 with Barkov and Laine playing together (substitute Barkov with Gaudreau and these kind of plays would be fun to see this season). Check out the first goal and maybe the couple of goals from 02:00 onwards.

 

[AirSox]

Laine is probably one of the most intriguing players in the whole league - glimpses of super stardom but more deficiencies than you see from any other big star. But like others have said here, Gaudreau could bring out the best of Laine and vice versa. Gaudreau seemingly has many of the attributes that Laine lacks - namely getting the puck over the offensive blue line. The amount of times Laine lost the puck near the offensive blue line last season was pretty high to my eye test. He's also seen circling high in d-zone when the opposition scores (not necessarily his fault but many times I felt "he could've prevented that goal" with a better defensive play). Very frustrating at times.

And yet he's an exciting player to watch too, on the super star level - and I think that's what his reputation is built on, and he gets paid for those exciting moments (+ potential, still). Those one-timers are lethal, and he's got a good eye for passes (sometimes too good, as the pass is too difficult or the receiving player fumbles it - I remember Atkinson failed to convert on a good pass in one of Laine's first games, and that forever tainted my view on Atkinson).

Last season he was definitely better than previously from an effort standpoint (he didn't give up on the backchecks). If he can continue to develop in this way then he can still become better - and this consistency was what he said he still needs to work on, to get the bad days closer to the good days.

I got lost in the Laine video rabbithole (thanks!) and thought to share this one: WC 2016 with Barkov and Laine playing together (substitute Barkov with Gaudreau and these kind of plays would be fun to see this season). Check out the first goal and maybe the couple of goals from 02:00 onwards.

That first goal was absolute magic. You can most certainly get that with him and Johnny.

 

[Marioesque]

That first goal was absolute magic. You can most certainly get that with him and Johnny.

It is hockey porn, two high IQ players can make things look like that. I expect him to click like that with Johnny too

 

[VT]

That first goal was absolute magic. You can most certainly get that with him and Johnny.

I remember those WC. Even though the goals were mostly scored by others, especially this pair (Barkov and Laine) was, literally speaking, making fools of our defenders. I thought I was going to throw out the TV. Btw, all your titles in 2000 years you won in Slovakia.

 

[thebus88]

“Unlock the Unfairness”

Love it. Thank you.

 

[Xoggz22]

My hope is that Johnny and Laine only play together on the PP1 unit. Based on Laine's PPG last year with players that I would not consider elite (although maybe one could argue Voracek has elite passing skills), I think that not having him with JG would create two dangerous lines. Maybe they start together but it would be ideal, in my opinion, for the CBJ to be able to split them up and be successful. I think Laine will garner enough attention for his elite shot and his underrated play making ability but he'll need someone on the line, preferable, to carry the puck. JG can do all of that and feed players making them better overall.

I just see two dynamics that could fit great together (and if there is a second line that develops on its own, great) but think if they can supplement and split them the CBJ will be all the more dangerous. We're still at a point where the young players are really going to be the answer to these questions. If Sillinger can take another step and just one other young player can contribute without looking lost every other night, this team could be deadly and hold the puck. Sillinger, Roslovic, Jenner and Kuraly are the keys to me. If they all play at their highest level that each showed last year (yeah, it's an "if" but I don't think unrealistic), I think the wings will absolutely benefit in a huge manner. I also think Tex is a guy that fills the gap lost with Bjorkstrand and would be huge. He was on that pace last year and showed he's got the skills to be a very, very good player.

 

[NotCommitted]

This gotta be one of the greatest Laine shots



sorry it just never gets old

 

[Halberdier]

Laine is probably one of the most intriguing players in the whole league - glimpses of super stardom but more deficiencies than you see from any other big star. But like others have said here, Gaudreau could bring out the best of Laine and vice versa. Gaudreau seemingly has many of the attributes that Laine lacks - namely getting the puck over the offensive blue line. The amount of times Laine lost the puck near the offensive blue line last season was pretty high to my eye test. He's also seen circling high in d-zone when the opposition scores (not necessarily his fault but many times I felt "he could've prevented that goal" with a better defensive play). Very frustrating at times.

And yet he's an exciting player to watch too, on the super star level - and I think that's what his reputation is built on, and he gets paid for those exciting moments (+ potential, still). Those one-timers are lethal, and he's got a good eye for passes (sometimes too good, as the pass is too difficult or the receiving player fumbles it - I remember Atkinson failed to convert on a good pass in one of Laine's first games, and that forever tainted my view on Atkinson).

Last season he was definitely better than previously from an effort standpoint (he didn't give up on the backchecks). If he can continue to develop in this way then he can still become better - and this consistency was what he said he still needs to work on, to get the bad days closer to the good days.

I got lost in the Laine video rabbithole (thanks!) and thought to share this one: WC 2016 with Barkov and Laine playing together (substitute Barkov with Gaudreau and these kind of plays would be fun to see this season). Check out the first goal and maybe the couple of goals from 02:00 onwards.

Oh man those were the times. An U18 player as the MVP of mens hockey world championships, almost doubling the previous point record for a player of that age, and the previous record was nearly 100 years old, if I am not mistaken. Also more than doubling previous modern day record of U18 Jaromir Jagr.