Player Discussion: Laine (mod warning OP)

[Farmboy Patty]

The worst thing about the current offside rule is it is gradually stealing a fans enjoyment of spontaneously cheering for a goal. As it is now more and more often cheering is muted while people wait to see if it is a good goal. It is a slippery slope for the NHL when their rules start impacting the paying customers' enjoyment of the game.

It already has for me...when the spontanious joy of a scored goal goes through my mind a Bill Lumbergh’esque voice says ”yeaaah, but we’re gonna’ have to wait until the review has confirmed that it’s a good goal. Then we’ll celebrate, mmmkay?”. It just doesn’t feel as good as it did before.

Maybe there should be a margin for error on the missed offside calls so that the offside challenge could be applied when the play was clearly offside, and otherwise the (non)call on ice would stand? I don’t think that the idea behind it was to give coaches the chance to rewind after every goal to see if there was an offside earlier in the play. The rule was made because of goals like this:

 

[jgimp]

Thi

It already has for me...when the spontanious joy of a scored goal goes through my mind a Bill Lumbergh’esque voice says ”yeaaah, but we’re gonna’ have to wait until the review has confirmed that it’s a good goal. Then we’ll celebrate, mmmkay?”. It just doesn’t feel as good as it did before.

Maybe there should be a margin for error on the missed offside calls so that the offside challenge could be applied when the play was clearly offside, and otherwise the (non)call on ice would stand? I don’t think that the idea behind it was to give coaches the chance to rewind after every goal to see if there was an offside earlier in the play. The rule was made because of goals like this:

I think a good start is having a 10 sec limit from the “goal” to challenge for offside or goaltender interference. Having the players hanging around off the boards like it’s a timeout and the goaltender pretending to need equipment repairs or whatnot while the coach is glued to the iPad for 90seconds is a bit ridiculous.
This rule has gone far and away further than its intent!

 

[ps241]

The worst thing about the current offside rule is it is gradually stealing a fans enjoyment of spontaneously cheering for a goal. As it is now more and more often cheering is muted while people wait to see if it is a good goal. It is a slippery slope for the NHL when their rules start impacting the paying customers' enjoyment of the game.

I agree it’s getting to be a buzz kill. Not sure what the right answer is though because I do like that they have a chance to get the call right but it’s effecting my initial spontaneous response for sure.

 

[Garbox]

Penalties are not canceled even if the play is for a good reason. What if someone is hurt on the play? Can’t cancel that. I could justify canceling a ‘minor’ interference etc. but that line is just too difficult to draw.

Actually that would be just that easy; if it's a minor penalty, it's withdrawn. Highsticking that causes damage is at least a double minor and anything more severe is most likely caused by something that calls for a major penalty. Now, there would be some very rare cases where a trip or check causes an injury, but they could be caused even without any fouls, like players colliding each other.

 

[jepjepjoo]

That offside challenge rule is stupid and weird. Last week at a game (I can't remember which one) there was a play which lead to the goal, but before that there was coming penalty, but that also was after offside. They challenge the goal and it was cancelled, but still they got that penalty. What!
Play was offside and the penalty came after that. That should be overruled aswell. Stubid rule I say.

Penalties are not canceled even if the play is for a good reason. What if someone is hurt on the play? Can’t cancel that. I could justify canceling a ‘minor’ interference etc. but that line is just too difficult to draw.

 

[Calendal]

Actually that would be just that easy; if it's a minor penalty, it's withdrawn. Highsticking that causes damage is at least a double minor and anything more severe is most likely caused by something that calls for a major penalty. Now, there would be some very rare cases where a trip or check causes an injury, but they could be caused even without any fouls, like players colliding each other.

Okay, what if someone is hooked while crossing the blue line resulting in an offside. Or what about a hand pass where the receiver of pass is interfered on while receiving it? I think it’s safer for the game if the calls stand.

Hypothetical: Sometimes a player might know they were offside and would intentionally not finish a play but rather try to get a penalty. Because the penalty does not get called back without a goal.

 

[Calendal]

Penalty on this play was not canceled, ref changed his mind.

 

[Garbox]

Okay, what if someone is hooked while crossing the blue line resulting in an offside. Or what about a hand pass where the receiver of pass is interfered on while receiving it? I think it’s safer for the game if the calls stand.

Hypothetical: Sometimes a player might know they were offside and would intentionally not finish a play but rather try to get a penalty. Because the penalty does not get called back without a goal.

Well, minor penalties (such as hooks) can't be given afterwards (not sure about majors), so that would be offside just like it would've been if the linesmen spotted it.

And hypothetically yes, there are some things that could be seen (not sure about that scenario you made, there's no point in trying to get a penalty for either team, as if the other doesn't score, the penalty is called and that leaves his team shorthanded). I was just commenting that thought in a sense that minor penalties could be cancelled, because they are usually... well, minor fouls. I'm not actually that keen on having that implemented.

 

[Tommigun]

Thi

It already has for me...when the spontanious joy of a scored goal goes through my mind a Bill Lumbergh’esque voice says ”yeaaah, but we’re gonna’ have to wait until the review has confirmed that it’s a good goal. Then we’ll celebrate, mmmkay?”. It just doesn’t feel as good as it did before.

Maybe there should be a margin for error on the missed offside calls so that the offside challenge could be applied when the play was clearly offside, and otherwise the (non)call on ice would stand? I don’t think that the idea behind it was to give coaches the chance to rewind after every goal to see if there was an offside earlier in the play. The rule was made because of goals like this:

That would be too hard to judge and subjective. I think the suggestion of voiding challenges when the defending team gains control of the puck is perfect.

 

[RageQuit77]

The worst thing about the current offside rule is it is gradually stealing a fans enjoyment of spontaneously cheering for a goal. As it is now more and more often cheering is muted while people wait to see if it is a good goal. It is a slippery slope for the NHL when their rules start impacting the paying customers' enjoyment of the game.

They need just widen the blue line, let's say to some 2 meters wide, but then fade both edges of it in way nobody can see where the edges are...

Nah. Easier it would to just get rid of whole challenge-rule. If referee couldn't see it was an offside, then it was insignificant enough to not justify all downsides coming from nitpicking, pausing, waiting, and momentum-killing. It worked well a century without challenge already, why not next century too?

 

[Mud Turtle]

The worst thing about the current offside rule is it is gradually stealing a fans enjoyment of spontaneously cheering for a goal. As it is now more and more often cheering is muted while people wait to see if it is a good goal. It is a slippery slope for the NHL when their rules start impacting the paying customers' enjoyment of the game.

Couldn’t agree more with this post KB. Although I didn’t realize I was doing it, I totally see now that I’m always doing this. “Hold on, let’s see if there’s a challenge”.
As you said, it steals away the joy of a goal.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Yesterday was fair, refs should have had it, but presumably they’ve been instructed to not whistle close ones and let the challenge sort those out.

I would like a 10/5 second rule for initiating challenge: Within 10 seconds of infraction or 5 seconds of goal a team may choose to use their timeout to decide if they want to challenge. If they do challenge, they get to keep the timeout (regardless of outcome).

I hate not knowing if a challenge is coming.

I'm getting really fed up with losing goals - and great play - to offside challenges. That is the product the league is selling, exciting play.

By nature I tend to side with an absolute idea of getting the rules called correctly, but these lost goals are turning me against my instincts. I would much rather go back to accepting the occasional badly missed call than what they are doing now.

I suggest doing away with coaches challenges altogether. This is not working. Have the league automatically review all scoring plays while play goes on. They can blow the horn to stop play, just as they do when they decide a goal has been scored and missed by the refs. But only do that if the missed offside call is egregious. Set a time limit. If it takes more than 30 seconds to decide to overturn the call, then it was too close to be over-ruled.

It is crazy to have great play nullified after the fact.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I think if the defensive team has possession at any point after the missed offside, or if the goal happens more than 10 seconds after the missed offside, it should be unchallengable. The offside had no impact on the goal; Mtl had a chance to clear and failed.

I know that's convoluted, but it hockey doesn't need more whistles and slow down the game. Thef should also change it so skates don't have to touch the ice, breaking the plane of the blue line should be enough. And forget about pixel-peeping mm's.
/rant

What's a pixel-peeping mm?

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I think that’s perfect. The challenge would be invokable until the defending team gains control, just like in a pending penalty.

It’s so stupid to cancel goals where the offside happened a few minutes before, it’s not like the offside has any bearing on the later events unless it’s off the rush and directly leads to a goal.

I don't like the challenge the way it is. I really don't like cancelling goals. But I can't agree with your point. The passage of time isn't significant because if called properly, none of the ensuing play would have happened.

 

[Calendal]

I'm getting really fed up with losing goals - and great play - to offside challenges. That is the product the league is selling, exciting play.

By nature I tend to side with an absolute idea of getting the rules called correctly, but these lost goals are turning me against my instincts. I would much rather go back to accepting the occasional badly missed call than what they are doing now.

I suggest doing away with coaches challenges altogether. This is not working. Have the league automatically review all scoring plays while play goes on. They can blow the horn to stop play, just as they do when they decide a goal has been scored and missed by the refs. But only do that if the missed offside call is egregious. Set a time limit. If it takes more than 30 seconds to decide to overturn the call, then it was too close to be over-ruled.

It is crazy to have great play nullified after the fact.

I guess this Laine thread is a little wrong place to jump to this discussion, but it does seem jets are making a lot of really close zone entries. But I agree, I hate not knowing when a goal is really good.. I guess when either:

a) drop the puck and play resumes
b) losing team has left the ice in OT

I think often the decision to review takes longer than the review. It’s just stupid. Sometimes review takes 10 mins, of course..

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I guess this Laine thread is a little wrong place to jump to this discussion, but it does seem jets are making a lot of really close zone entries. But I agree, I hate not knowing when a goal is really good.. I guess when either:

a) drop the puck and play resumes
b) losing team has left the ice in OT

I think often the decision to review takes longer than the review. It’s just stupid. Sometimes review takes 10 mins, of course..

Like I said earlier, I would prefer letting the on-ice officials make the call in real time - that is go back to the old way. Play stands as called. That leaves the very rare, really badly missed call standing, perhaps even awarding the SC because of a bad call. But that would be far better than what we have now. Those calls missed so badly are very rare.

 

[FonRiesen]

What's a pixel-peeping mm?

Sorry, staring at those small screens and trying to figure out if there is a millimeter of space between a skate or puck and the line.

Maybe if they don't allow refs to use slow motion/pause or zoom in. If it's super obvious, fine.

Back to Laine - I'm very glad he's been getting on the score sheet (despite the called back goals). Jets win more when they get more goals.

 

[RageQuit77]

Often there happen situations where an offensive player without a puck has to delay his zone entry to avoid off-side, and relatively often there seems to occur cases of such situations where a player indeed was momentarily off-side, but a linesman didn't react to that apparently because there was intentional, clear attempt to avoid off-side. Very often refs allow a play continue uninterruptedly from those kind situations, even if by the rules game should be stopped immediately.

I don't know how thread relevant this topic truly is here, but it is interesting debate anyway.

 

[KingBogo]

Often there happen situations where an offensive player without a puck has to delay his zone entry to avoid off-side, and relatively often there seems to occur cases of such situations where a player indeed was momentarily off-side, but a linesman didn't react to that apparently because there was intentional, clear attempt to avoid off-side. Very often refs allow a play continue uninterruptedly from those kind situations, even if by the rules game should be stopped immediately.

I don't know how thread relevant this topic truly is here, but it is interesting debate anyway.

I guess the topic seems relevant since Laine and Schiefele appear to be the players that are most effected by called back goals. Either way I'd just get rid of video replay altogether except in situations where it is needed to determine if the puck crossed the goal line. Hockey is full of close plays that can get called one way or the other. The beauty of the game is the speed it is played at, and players ability to make plays at that speed. IMO anything that takes away from this is ultimately bad for the game.

 

[Kaako Kappo]

His movement is starting look good. No more aircraft carrier -Patrik. I wish Connor and Scheifele would use him more in the offensive zone. Right now he's the setup man, waiting for a pass to fire at the net is a waste of time.

 

[HHel]

Paddy was great last night. He was driving hard and that stride which led to Connor's first goal was awesome. I love the way he's playing this season.

 

[Halberdier]

Apparently Laine did break his regular season TOI record by almost 3 minutes against the Blues

 

[Tommigun]

Apparently Laine did break his regular season TOI record by almost 3 minutes against the Blues

PP1 never got off the ice, that’s why. Wonder how it feels for Ehlers to draw all those penalties and not get any PP time for it. Not Patrik’s fault of course, and the TOI was well deserved. He’s really matured as a player.

 

[NotCommitted]

Apparently Laine did break his regular season TOI record by almost 3 minutes against the Blues

Laine enjoying the highlife playing in Mo's 1st line.

While I think looking only at that game in isolation, it wasn't that bad, but I hope it doesn't become a habit. This team is stronger for rolling a more balanced top-6.

 

[PhilJets]

https://www.nhl.com/jets/video/laine-rifles-equalizer-home/t-277350912/c-4950261 Sent with @NHL


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