La Liga 2018-19 Part II

[Corto]

ZZ back to Madrid isn't good news for Isco anyway.

Why? He was a borderline starter for a team that won 3 CLs in a row under Zidane, including starting 2 CL finals.
He was fantastic in 16/17 and the X factor in many games (though his form has dropped since).

ZZ doesn't have a grudge with him or anything, if anything, Isco played as a starter way more than under any other manager.

 

[Power Man]

I think it’s good news for Isco

 

[Evilo]

Why? He was a borderline starter for a team that won 3 CLs in a row under Zidane, including starting 2 CL finals.
He was fantastic in 16/17 and the X factor in many games (though his form has dropped since).

ZZ doesn't have a grudge with him or anything, if anything, Isco played as a starter way more than under any other manager.

They"ve had their fair share of disagreement and more than once Isco whined because he didn't play enough.

 

[Evilo]

I still remember Isco saying he didn't have ZZ's confidence.

Real Madrid: Ces joueurs menacés par le retour de Zidane

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

ZZ looks like he's back being presented apparently tomorrow. And no this isn't good news for Isco

I don't get the point D2M is trying to make then. In Spain, you can keep a "replacement" manager for 2 weeks - after that, you either have to sign him or move on.
At the time (and even still, really), it was the only thing to do. Season was already lost and all they need to do is ride it out, get top-3 and re-tool over the summer.

Noone seriously ever thought Solari was a long-term solution, but again, Spanish rules say you must sign him after the 2 weeks.

As for the next manager, I'd say:
Mou 50%
Zidane 30%
Poch 20%

Either will do fine for Madrid, as long as they get the funds in the summer.
Seeing as how Perez hasn't brought in a big name in since 2014, I'm guessing some splashes will be made.

Because he was a shitty coach and it was soooooo obvious.

 

[Corto]

Because he was a ****ty coach and it was soooooo obvious.

I don't think anyone thought he was the next Rinus Michels or anything like that. He was an interim manager who served had nothing to lose by giving it a shot, Madrid's season was basically lost when he came in.

 

[Corto]

Just confirmed by Madrid:
Comunicado Oficial | Real Madrid CF

Can't imagine Bale is too happy.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

I don't think anyone thought he was the next Rinus Michels or anything like that. He was an interim manager who served had nothing to lose by giving it a shot, Madrid's season was basically lost when he came in.

14 games into the season and La liga was lost? Not even close. Not to mention two other competitions. They played like hot garbage weekly it was obvious they sucked.

 

[Corto]

14 games into the season and La liga was lost? Not even close. Not to mention two other competitions. They played like hot garbage weekly it was obvious they sucked.

It was lost to anyone who watched Madrid at the time. They were running on fumes, with players out of shape, off form, injured or just burned out and spent.
Oh, and didn't even try replacing the 2nd best player ever and the main reason why their setup worked so good.
Lopetegui-ball didn't help (now, he IS awful) but no manager would squeeze enough goals out of that roster.


Had they went past Ajax, they stood very little chance vs any other superclub in their current state.

They need serious re-tooling, letting go of this "let's sign all Spanish talents and pretend their great" mantra and securing actual top talent.
Modric has another year in him, CBs are fine, Kroos can recover form, Carvajal needs to stay healthy, Benzema should be good to enable someone for the next year, Casemiro will do his bit...
But everything else, including depth, finding and schooling a Modric successor, LB (though Reguilon looks good) , forwards, maybe a Kroos replacement if they go the other way, etc etc.

Zidane has a LOT of work ahead of him.
His team that won 3 straight is done. He basically needs to completely re-invent it.

 

[Wee Baby Seamus]

This is hilarious

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

It was lost to anyone who watched Madrid at the time. They were running on fumes, with players out of shape, off form, injured or just burned out and spent.
Oh, and didn't even try replacing the 2nd best player ever and the main reason why their setup worked so good.
Lopetegui-ball didn't help (now, he IS awful) but no manager would squeeze enough goals out of that roster.


Had they went past Ajax, they stood very little chance vs any other superclub in their current state.

They need serious re-tooling, letting go of this "let's sign all Spanish talents and pretend their great" mantra and securing actual top talent.
Modric has another year in him, CBs are fine, Kroos can recover form, Carvajal needs to stay healthy, Benzema should be good to enable someone for the next year, Casemiro will do his bit...
But everything else, including depth, finding and schooling a Modric successor, LB (though Reguilon looks good) , forwards, maybe a Kroos replacement if they go the other way, etc etc.

Zidane has a LOT of work ahead of him.
His team that won 3 straight is done. He basically needs to completely re-invent it.

GK is fine, Cb's are good, 2/3 midfielders are good. striker is good sooo exactly who is spent and exhausted? There's no excuse to think of it as a lost season that early and the firing mid season proves that.

 

[Alklha]

He must have been promised that they'll be spending a fortune in the summer. The squad right now has plenty of problems, then there are a few of their high profile players that look like they will be leaving as well.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

I think the problems of the squad are overstated.

 

[robertmac43]

The squad right now has plenty of problems, then there are a few of their high profile players that look like they will be leaving as well.

I don't see the plenty of problems. There are weaknesses for sure, but I think the Real team is just suffering from a lack of desire, the loss of their best player, and the change in management following all the success. It has been dramatic year for change for the club which is something they had not dealt with in a while. A little bit of retooling and they should be more than fine

 

[Alklha]

I don't see the plenty of problems. There are weaknesses for sure, but I think the Real team is just suffering from a lack of desire, the loss of their best player, and the change in management following all the success. It has been dramatic year for change for the club which is something they had not dealt with in a while. A little bit of retooling and they should be more than fine

Ronaldo still needs to be replaced, as best as that can be done.

Then it looks like Marcelo is going to Juve. Bale has never fit in, almost never fit and there is plenty of talk about him leaving in the summer. We'll have to see about Modrić, since he wanted to leave last year. Wouldn't be surprised if Isco considered pushing for a move away.

Madrid were 17 points off Barcelona last season. They've lost their best player since then, is 12 points off at this point really a surprise? Going back to the start of the 13/14 season they only have 3 wins against Barcelona, plus 2 win in the Super Cup at the start of last season.

The reality is that the Champions League win last season papered over a lot of cracks.

 

[Corto]

GK is fine, Cb's are good, 2/3 midfielders are good. striker is good sooo exactly who is spent and exhausted? There's no excuse to think of it as a lost season that early and the firing mid season proves that.

Marcelo and Isco, two key players, are clearly completely off form.
Varane and Modric took about 3 months to get going after they both missed training camp post WC-final.
Kroos seems empty. Too much winning, a la Charlie Sheen. No idea, sometimes players get "empty" and lose motivation.
Asensio and Dani Ceballos are quite possibly simply not world class talent.
Bale is Bale. Shows up here and there and you think "what a player", then disappears or gets injured.
Benzema is fine, but he needs a goalscorer next to him.

It's not just that the players seem empty, off-form and whatever... It's that their entire concept works if you got a goalscorer ready to take advantage of how they used to play under ZZ.

 

[Islesfan22]

I’m expecting a majore overhaul from Real Madrid. I don’t see Zidane taking this job again unless he got some guarantees on who comes and who goes.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Marcelo and Isco, two key players, are clearly completely off form.
Varane and Modric took about 3 months to get going after they both missed training camp post WC-final.
Kroos seems empty. Too much winning, a la Charlie Sheen. No idea, sometimes players get "empty" and lose motivation.
Asensio and Dani Ceballos are quite possibly simply not world class talent.
Bale is Bale. Shows up here and there and you think "what a player", then disappears or gets injured.
Benzema is fine, but he needs a goalscorer next to him.

It's not just that the players seem empty, off-form and whatever... It's that their entire concept works if you got a goalscorer ready to take advantage of how they used to play under ZZ.

Like I said it was 14 games into the season they fired his ass before the year ended if its a lost year why offer him a contract and then not stick to it. Coming off a win no less. BTW Isco under ZZ was not a key player.

 

[les Habs]

Wow, look at the all the Madridistas who showed up.

Curious as to why Zidane didn't take the job before the Clasicos.

 

[Corto]

BTW Isco under ZZ was not a key player.

I don't know what to tell you except that he absolutely was.
During the year that ZZ's Madrid won both the league and the CL (16/17), Isco was in probably the form of his life and Bale was, well, injured.
To begin the year, James was in front of Isco on the pecking order, but then Isco started pumping in MOTM performances for their "B" team (him, James, Kovacic, Vasquez, Danilo, Morata, etc.) and that "B" team won almost every single game in the league that they played - and won them comfortably.
It was the one time in the last few years when Real had the personnel to adapt and go from their usual giant-killing/big-game strategy with fast transition and quick off-ball movement, to short passes and 1-v-1 dribbling skills of Isco, Kovacic etc.... And they simply destroyed smaller teams in La Liga.

During that time, Isco scored some late winners, was absolutely phenomenal, and won himself a starter spot.
He started every big game from the 2nd leg vs Bayern, and was vital in the 2nd leg vs Atletico in the CL semi,
He would continue to hold to that starter spot through the 17-18 season as well (ending in Bale coming off the bench vs Liverpool).

So, after the 16/17 which was his real coming out party as a starter for Madrid, he stayed there as a starter, James left to Bayern and Bale was starting lesser games and coming off the bench in the big ones.
Isco started 10 games that year in the CL, including the knockout ones, and including the final again.

I honestly don't know where this ridiculous notion of Zidane hating Isco comes from, other than uninformed internet memes which might be referencing old stuff that was obviously either untrue or resolved.

Isco was asking for more playing time at the time, and he eventually earned it and got it.

 

[Evilo]

Isco has whined about not being trusted and not starting enough.
He totally wanted to flee ZZ.

You're the one uninformed here.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

I will look at minutes played more and respond later but I never said he wasn't good under ZZ just that he wasn't vital piece. Hell as you said he was part of the B team for Madrid.

 

[TheLeastOfTheBunch]

Yeah Isco wasn’t a mainstay in Zidane’s lineups, that’s a bit of revisionism. Isco made his frustrations known to the media too, even during the latter months of Zidane’s last tenure with RM.

 

[Evilo]

Yeah Isco wasn’t a mainstay in Zidane’s lineups, that’s a bit of revisionism. Isco made his frustrations known to the media too, even during the latter months of Zidane’s last tenure with RM.

Nah uninformed internet meme

 

[Corto]

Yeah Isco wasn’t a mainstay in Zidane’s lineups, that’s a bit of revisionism. Isco made his frustrations known to the media too, even during the latter months of Zidane’s last tenure with RM.

Seriously though.

Check the minutes, check the starts, if you haven't seen the games.

Halfway through 16/17, he won the starting spot, started every big game in the next year and a half until Zidane's exit.
Not that hard to check either.
He started every KO game in the CL after the 1st leg vs Bayern in 16/17 and finished with the final vs Liverpool.
And was massive in the 16/17 La Liga.

Not. That. Hard.To.Check.