OT: LA Angels of Anaheim Baseball Discussion (continued again)

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ADHB

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^^While the farm is promising, it is severely lacking high end pitching talent. They will need to spend some money to bring in front of the rotation pitchers if they want to be championship contenders soon
Yep. With the end of the Pujols contract finally in sight, and with young players making the minimum figuring to contribute as soon as next season, I'm guessing that opens up a ton of room in the budget for a FA signing like Cole or Sale should he become available. They've also got a lot of redundancy in their top prospects which they can use to trade for an impact pitcher when it's time.
 

MMC

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Why would one of the best players to ever play the game want to come back to an awful team when he can can sign with any other team when he hits the free agent market. You have no idea what you are talking about and it is clear you have a real hatred for Eppler.
The team isn’t close to being good, please tell me why you believe that isn’t true.
Your point has an incredibly hypocritical base onto which it stands.
The team hasn't been successful over the past 6-7 years because they tried to buy a roster instead of build one. Building one takes longer because it involves investing in kids, so the fruits of that labor are not readily apparent.

Eppler had nothing to do with those previous regimes that failed, and instead has gone about building the right way, which is through the drafting and development of young talent.

That talent is coming. After years of having the worst farm of any organization in decades we are now in the top 10. After three years! That's incredible progress.

So your anger is misplaced. Be upset with the people who created the mess that eppler has had to clean up, and understand that what you want, IE, free agents!!!, is what got us in this mess to begin with.
The issue isn’t signing players, it’s the players he signed. Everyone knew Pujols and Hamilton would be bad contracts. It was also apparent our biggest hole was pitching, and Eppler and Dipoto did nothing to solve it.
Your points have proven to be grossly miscalculated.
Please explain what the hell you mean by that.
I don’t bloody well care what Keith Law says. The farm is not top 10, and prospect sites don’t think so either.
 

Static

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The team isn’t close to being good, please tell me why you believe that isn’t true.

The issue isn’t signing players, it’s the players he signed. Everyone knew Pujols and Hamilton would be bad contracts. It was also apparent our biggest hole was pitching, and Eppler and Dipoto did nothing to solve it.

Please explain what the hell you mean by that.
I don’t bloody well care what Keith Law says. The farm is not top 10, and prospect sites don’t think so either.
What I meant is you make bad points with poor arguments propping them up.

And I know you don't care because you don't have any interest in being anything but irrationally upset.

But hey, enjoy trout with the Phillies.
 

AngelDuck

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I don't agree with @mymerlincat at all when it comes to the absolute negativity surrounding Billy Eppler. He was dealt an incredibly tough hand.

However, I also disagree with the notion that the Angels are anywhere near championship contenders. A lot of work to be done.

My only problem with Eppler is that he pays a lot of money for mediocrity instead of paying the additional money to sign a star player. I don't understand the Cozart and Valbuena (RIP) signings for example. Cahill and Harvey are two wtf moves when you consider how injury prone our starting staff is already. For all the funds we've invested in that mediocrity, we could have had Machado and filled a massive hole for the next 5 years. Right now we have Taylor Ward and David Fletcher/Zach Cozart as our options at 3B and 2B. Call me crazy, but that inspires zero confidence in me that they'll be anything more than average if we get lucky. Catcher is another position where you're patching a leaking hole with a bandaid - Lucroy is old and was garbage last year. Again, highly doubt we get more than average out of him. Bour was a nice upgrade on Pujols but we'll see if he plays.

I can live with this year being a throw away season ONLY if there is a plan in place to bring in at least one star pitcher. Again, it isn't Eppler's fault but the Angels are collectively running out of time. Trout is 27 now. You need to win in 2020/2021/2022 or else this is all a massive failure
 

Fighter

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I just want to celebrate the fact that Mikey trout will remain with us. I'm ecstatic, really! Now give him a legit team around him. GO HALOS!!!!!
 

MMC

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What I meant is you make bad points with poor arguments propping them up.

And I know you don't care because you don't have any interest in being anything but irrationally upset.

But hey, enjoy trout with the Phillies.
All of the other teams with star young players are winning playoff games. Mookie Betts, who is the second best player, at least in the AL, just won the World Series. Meanwhile, we have had the best player in baseball for 7 years, have won 0 playoff games, and aren’t any closer to winning any than they were before. As both an Angels fan and a baseball fan, there is nothing irrational about being upset of the state of the team. We have a top payroll, top attendance, and the best player in baseball. It is not irrational to expect more out of this franchise.
 

AngelDuck

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All of the other teams with star young players are winning playoff games. Mookie Betts, who is the second best player, at least in the AL, just won the World Series. Meanwhile, we have had the best player in baseball for 7 years, have won 0 playoff games, and aren’t any closer to winning any than they were before. As both an Angels fan and a baseball fan, there is nothing irrational about being upset of the state of the team. We have a top payroll, top attendance, and the best player in baseball. It is not irrational to expect more out of this franchise.
The bolded is where your argument turns nonsensical. It's fine to be upset that we aren't better than we are (Eppler's signings have been a mixed bag) but it's pretty much inarguable that the organization is in much better shape with much more prospect currency than they were when Eppler took over for Dipshito
 

MMC

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I don't agree with @mymerlincat at all when it comes to the absolute negativity surrounding Billy Eppler. He was dealt an incredibly tough hand.

However, I also disagree with the notion that the Angels are anywhere near championship contenders. A lot of work to be done.

My only problem with Eppler is that he pays a lot of money for mediocrity instead of paying the additional money to sign a star player. I don't understand the Cozart and Valbuena (RIP) signings for example. Cahill and Harvey are two wtf moves when you consider how injury prone our starting staff is already. For all the funds we've invested in that mediocrity, we could have had Machado and filled a massive hole for the next 5 years. Right now we have Taylor Ward and David Fletcher/Zach Cozart as our options at 3B and 2B. Call me crazy, but that inspires zero confidence in me that they'll be anything more than average if we get lucky. Catcher is another position where you're patching a leaking hole with a bandaid - Lucroy is old and was garbage last year. Again, highly doubt we get more than average out of him. Bour was a nice upgrade on Pujols but we'll see if he plays.

I can live with this year being a throw away season ONLY if there is a plan in place to bring in at least one star pitcher. Again, it isn't Eppler's fault but the Angels are collectively running out of time. Trout is 27 now. You need to win in 2020/2021/2022 or else this is all a massive failure
I agree that his signings are very questionable, which is part of why I don’t like him. We need to allocate more resources to pitching. I also don’t like that Gio Gonzalez just signed for 3 million, yet we gave an inferior pitcher who is a noted clubhouse problem almost 5x the money. If Eppler’s goal is to rebuild the farm, he needs to blow up the team and not trade anyone besides Ohtani and Trout, because as it stands, the farm is not top 10.
 

MMC

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The bolded is where your argument turns nonsensical. It's fine to be upset that we aren't better than we are (Eppler's signings have been a mixed bag) but it's pretty much inarguable that the organization is in much better shape with much more prospect currency than they were when Eppler took over for Dip****o
You said it yourself that the team isn’t any closer to contending. Pitching has been our problem for years. Our only notable pitching prospect is Canning. Until we start putting a lot more resources until building an MLB caliber rotation and bullpen, I don’t like this team’s chances.
 

Anaheim4ever

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I think its a stop gap season that could go either way, If the team is out of contention for the playoffs at the deadline & several of the guys signed to One year deals are playing well they trade them for prospects & then sign new guys in the offseason. If Matt Harvey does really well in the regular season they either trade him or re-sign him, i'd bank on him not staying healthy long term so i'd lean towards trading him for near mlb ready assets.
 

AngelDuck

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You said it yourself that the team isn’t any closer to contending. Pitching has been our problem for years. Our only notable pitching prospect is Canning. Until we start putting a lot more resources until building an MLB caliber rotation and bullpen, I don’t like this team’s chances.
I don't believe I said they aren't any closer. I said there's still a ton of work to be done to become a championship contention. They had only one good prospect when Eppler took over (he traded him for Simmons). It's tough to make a team into a contender when that's the case. At least now they have a CHANCE to make the requisite moves to become a contender. Will they, is a different story
 

Anaheim4ever

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I guess building the team for the future instead of "NOW NOW NOW I WANT IT NOW!!!" was more important after all, huh.


He wants alot of quality playoff runs instead of 1 playoff run that they throw away the farm for, obviously when the farm is ready he wants them to be a yearly contender but understands the patience it takes for MLB farm systems. So it seems he wouldn't have signed long term if DiPoto was still the GM.
 
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MMC

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I don't believe I said they aren't any closer. I said there's still a ton of work to be done to become a championship contention. They had only one good prospect when Eppler took over (he traded him for Simmons). It's tough to make a team into a contender when that's the case. At least now they have a CHANCE to make the requisite moves to become a contender. Will they, is a different story
I agree, but I’m still not confident the organization values pitching enough for me to feel like they’re going to be capable of building a contender. When they prove that wrong, I’ll start being more optimistic
 

MMC

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Yep. With the end of the Pujols contract finally in sight, and with young players making the minimum figuring to contribute as soon as next season, I'm guessing that opens up a ton of room in the budget for a FA signing like Cole or Sale should he become available. They've also got a lot of redundancy in their top prospects which they can use to trade for an impact pitcher when it's time.
It’s been time for 7 years...
 

duxfan1101

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The Pujols contract has just crippled our ability to chase free agent studs. I don't think we'll be all that good this year, but if Adell can step in at the end of the year and look like he belongs, I think we could have a decent shot at the playoffs next year, obviously depending on what our starting pitching situation looks like.
 

Deuce22

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This nonsense about "having the best player in baseball" and not winning anything is funny. This isn't basketball, it's a 25 man roster. The Angels haven't developed any pitching during Trout's time here. They tried the signing expensive free agent thing and it didn't work under previous GM's. Finally Arte swallowed his pride and hired a guy who is doing it the right way. How any Angel fan can criticize the guy who trade for Simmons, won the Ohtani sweepstakes, and signed Trout to an extension is beyond me. Not to mention Eppler is in the process of rebuilding the farm system. I'm a Dodger fan, BTW.
 

Hockey Duckie

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Why would one of the best players to ever play the game want to come back to an awful team when he can can sign with any other team when he hits the free agent market. You have no idea what you are talking about and it is clear you have a real hatred for Eppler.

Because he's MF Mike Trout. He's different from most of the players today. He comes from a town called Milleville. He's being paid to play a fun game. He doesn't like the limelight. He knows he is the team. Bruh, that loyalty is amazing! He's like Getzy. Getzy was a quick re-signing. Perry, OTOH, required more money and smoozing. LoL

I am relieved that Mike Trout is staying an Angel for life! The Angels were the one team that believed in him and he's that freaking loyal! = )
 

Anaheim4ever

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I think they are trying to return to how strong the team depth was in 2007-2009, it takes years to restore that strong of 60 man roster.
The 2007 to 2009 Angels playoff teams had this: a great farm system that gave the team depth when the injuries would pile up they had guys in the minors that could step up. In previous pages some wanted them to sell the whole farm to make the playoffs in 2020 that would leave them with no depth when the predictable injuries pile up.

When they got into the 2010-2012 era the farm system started to completely dry up cause it had been spent in trades & the firing of Eddie Bane hurt the farm system as well, imagine if the Ducks fired Madden after one mediocre draft despite his previous track record, thats what the Angels did to Eddie Bane, they fired him despite the farm systems he had built over the years for the team all because the 2010 draft was a bust & it turns out the GM ordered him to draft toolsy players cause he wanted to skapegoat him(The Reagins/Bane hate between each other was real). Eddie Bane found Trout, Richards, Skaggs, Corbin & Grichuk all in the 2009 draft. I consider Grichuk a success cause he's had two .800 OPS seasons.
 

Zegs2sendhelp

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Was hopin trout would end up in new York... hopefully trout doesn't get the McDavid treatment.

7 years, 1 playoff series... has yet to win a playoff game as a professional. No doubt hes best player in baseball but man have the angels been pretty mediocre
 
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Anaheim4ever

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This nonsense about "having the best player in baseball" and not winning anything is funny. This isn't basketball, it's a 25 man roster. The Angels haven't developed any pitching during Trout's time here. They tried the signing expensive free agent thing and it didn't work under previous GM's. Finally Arte swallowed his pride and hired a guy who is doing it the right way. How any Angel fan can criticize the guy who trade for Simmons, won the Ohtani sweepstakes, and signed Trout to an extension is beyond me. Not to mention Eppler is in the process of rebuilding the farm system. I'm a Dodger fan, BTW.
I envy who the Dodgers have in charge of their scouting, they've been finding studs internationally as well meanwhile Dipoto spent overslot to sign Baldoquin over Vlad Jr.
 

MMC

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This nonsense about "having the best player in baseball" and not winning anything is funny. This isn't basketball, it's a 25 man roster. The Angels haven't developed any pitching during Trout's time here. They tried the signing expensive free agent thing and it didn't work under previous GM's. Finally Arte swallowed his pride and hired a guy who is doing it the right way. How any Angel fan can criticize the guy who trade for Simmons, won the Ohtani sweepstakes, and signed Trout to an extension is beyond me. Not to mention Eppler is in the process of rebuilding the farm system. I'm a Dodger fan, BTW.
Eppler is not doing it the right way. He is trying to rebuild without fully rebuild when the team needs it. If he were smart and having a strong farm was really so important to him, he would trade everyone other than Trout and Ohtani to build up a farm system that is truly top 10, instead of the half rebuilding, half competing bullshit he has them doing right now.
 

Anaheim4ever

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Was hopin trout would end up in new York... hopefully trout doesn't get the McDavid treatment.

7 years, 1 playoff series... has yet to win a playoff game as a professional. No doubt hes best player in baseball but man have the angels been pretty mediocre
A comparable situation would be if the Oilers had a top 10 farm system atm
Oilers have only recently fired their Dipoto aka Chiarelli.
 

MMC

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Was hopin trout would end up in new York... hopefully trout doesn't get the McDavid treatment.

7 years, 1 playoff series... has yet to win a playoff game as a professional. No doubt hes best player in baseball but man have the angels been pretty mediocre
The Angels are worse than the Oilers, at least the Oilers were able to develop another elite player like Draisaitl, and had the balls to fire their piss poor GM and manager, whereas we had to wait for them to step down. Not to mention when the Oilers had their great season, they at least made it a game away from the Conference Finals, whereas the Angels got swept in round one. I've made the comparison of these two teams for awhile now and it scares the daylights out of me.
 
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Anaheim4ever

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Eppler is not doing it the right way. He is trying to rebuild without fully rebuild when the team needs it. If he were smart and having a strong farm was really so important to him, he would trade everyone other than Trout and Ohtani to build up a farm system that is truly top 10, instead of the half rebuilding, half competing bull**** he has them doing right now.
It wasn't that long ago that the Yankees & Dodgers had one of the best farm systems in MLB & they did that without tearing it all down.
 
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