Kyle Dubas

[thewave]

I'm very confused as to why some people don't like Dubas, so I will use this question to understand:

If we are able to retain all of Matthews/Marner/Nylander/Tavares/Rielly/Andersen long-term, will you be happy with Dubas' performance?

I think he eroded our depth and made a horrendous blunder with with Nylander contract negotiations. I think he lacks the experience to execute the position and it's showing through in his mistakes. Especially with his media dealings during the Nylander negotiations.

 

[Bomber0104]

Sorry, what's the point here?

Yeah, we have guys in the pressbox who don't play. And?

My point was to dispute this silly notion that Dubas traded Leivo for some reason other than him wanting to keep both Marincin and Holl in the pressbox.

 

[Joey Hoser]

I'm very confused as to why some people don't like Dubas, so I will use this question to understand:

If we are able to retain all of Matthews/Marner/Nylander/Tavares/Rielly/Andersen long-term, will you be happy with Dubas' performance?

They'll never be happy or consider him good. Even if we win the next 5 cups, he didn't draft Matthews, Marner, Rielly, and Tavares had Leafs pajamas, so they will always be able to discount whatever he's done. The criticism to this point is pretty weak, and mostly amounts to personal attacks and other very odd arguments(such as the fact that we have defensemen in the pressbox, lol).

That said, the jury is still out. He hasn't done much shaping of this team yet, and probably won't much at least until this summer. Then there we be some situations he's going to have to make some bigger decisions on and we'll have a better idea of what we have in him.

 

[thewave]

My point was to dispute this silly notion that Dubas traded Leivo for some reason other than him wanting to keep both Marincin and Holl in the pressbox.

Well your reasoning would imply that the choice was logical (In his mind). His reasoning implies that Dubas does what is best for the individual and not best for the team. That's a pretty slippery slope.

 

[Joey Hoser]

My point was to dispute this silly notion that Dubas traded Leivo for some reason other than him wanting to keep both Marincin and Holl in the pressbox.

Huh?

Dubas said he told Leivo he'd move him if he found himself out of the lineup again.

You're saying that's a lie, and he did it so he could have those guys in the pressbox?

Why? What does that even mean?

 

[JT AM da real deal]

No other team in the NHL as far as I can see carries 2 spare defencemen. Dubas is the only one.

This decision forced the trade of Leivo because if they wanted to waive him and send him down he would have been claimed for nothing by the Canucks or another team since he's on a one-way.

They got an AHL player as salvage.

Or do you not get that?

I get it but if your word is not your bond whats the point in making a promise.

 

[Bomber0104]

Huh?

Dubas said he told Leivo he'd move him if he found himself out of the lineup again.

You're saying that's a lie, and he did it so he could have those guys in the pressbox?

Why? What does that even mean?

Why would he feel so bad about Leivo sitting out, but not care about Holl and Marincin collecting dust in the pressbox?

Holl has played 1 game and Marincin 6....

 

[thewave]

Huh?

Dubas said he told Leivo he'd move him if he found himself out of the lineup again.

You're saying that's a lie, and he did it so he could have those guys in the pressbox?

Why? What does that even mean?

You understand that this means Dubas puts individuals above the team right? That's not a good thing for a GM. So, he picked (a terrible goalie) Sparks over McBackup in a contending year. He left tons of cap ready for exploitation during a negotiation with Nyladner. He then sends Leivo off because Babcock was going to scratch him a night rather then force the player to be patient.

These are not great things Joey.

 

[diceman934]

Faulty logic when we have guys like Brown, Hyman playing on top lines. Leivo was not a liability ever, his possession stats were always good. He is a bit slow but is a good protector of the puck and has pretty quick hands while being good along the boards. A lot better than Hyman and Brown. He was not given a shot. Time will tell who is right, but your statement is the pinnacle of ignorance.

The Toronto Maple Leaf Levio was a spare part, it is really that simply. He was not now nor ever going to be better than Brown or Hyman in the roles that they play, never.
Why is it so hard for people to understand this. Our scoring wingers are Marner, Nylander, Kappy, Johnsson and Marleau he is not better then any of those. Levio is a scoring winger who was simply put not better then the scoring wingers we have. Brown and Hyman are better in every aspect of the game period.

We gave up a players who did not make himself more useful then Ennis.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Why would he feel so bad about Leivo sitting out, but not care about Holl and Marincin collecting dust in the pressbox?

Holl has played 1 game and Marincin 6....

Because Leivo sat in the box for 2 freakin years. You simply can't sit that long as a hockey player and continue to develop.

 

[thewave]

The Toronto Maple Leaf Levio was a spare part, it is really that simply. He was not now nor ever going to be better than Brown or Hyman in the roles that they play, never.
Why is it so hard for people to understand this. Our scoring wingers are Marner, Nylander, Kappy, Johnsson and Marleau he is not better then any of those. Levio is a scoring winger who was simply put not better then the scoring wingers we have. Brown and Hyman are better in every aspect of the game period.

We gave up a players who did not make himself more useful then Ennis.

So you have just published and told the entire hockey world that you feel "Connor Brown and Hyman are better in every aspect of the game period" vs Leivo. This standing in the face of better production, better possession stats, better eye test along the wall, in the O zone. He has a better shot especially over Brown.

I am just going to rest on that gem. One of the two players you just mentioned can be argued for and that's Hyman. He has stone hands but he does not destroy a lines chemistry in the O zone the way Brown has all season and most of last.

 

[Joey Hoser]

You understand that this means Dubas puts individuals above the team right?

Yeah I'm sure he eats babies too.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

So you have just published and told the entire hockey world that you feel "Connor Brown and Hyman are better in every aspect of the game period" vs Leivo. This standing in the face of better production, better possession stats, better eye test along the wall, in the O zone. He has a better shot especially over Brown.

I am just going to rest on that gem. One of the two players you just mentioned can be argued for and that's Hyman. He has stone hands but he does not destroy a lines chemistry in the O zone the way Brown has all season and most of last.

All of us would agree Hyman is flat out better than both. Brown this year or Brown as a rookie? Personally I would take Brown as a rookie over Leivo. But Brown of this season for sure it is Leivo. But you can't teach and change Babs.

 

[ACC1224]

No one can play in the NHL and the guy we got never will.

yes and IMO, Leivo would never score 30 goals here because he isn't good enough to play on the top lines.
You feel he would have, we will never know.

 

[thewave]

yes and IMO, Leivo would never score 30 goals here because he isn't good enough to play on the top lines.
You feel he would have, we will never know.

So you are saying he is good enough to possibly score 30 elsewhere? Don't you see how wrong this is in the face of the return we got for the player? Like fundamentally really really wrong.

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

So you are saying he is good enough to possibly score 30 elsewhere? Don't you see how wrong this is in the face of the return we got for the player? Like fundamentally really really wrong.

Not really, a bad player can still put up points if they get good usage. That doesn't mean they are worth that much. Crabb put up points with Kessel but it's not like he was a hot commodity, GM's look at usage when making deals.

 

[FalcorMulch]

Too many people here do not watch the games. They look at the box scores. Last night Nylander was not playing well. Yes he got 2 points and yes he made 1 really nice pass. But it only occured because he cheated when Kadri really made the play happen. If Kadri gets checked and Nylander's man sweeps that puck in our end and they score then that was entirely Nylander's fault. Sorry I look at game like a coach.

I think you need to get your eyes checked coach. Willy was flying last night. One bad shift where he got stuck out late and took a penalty. Otherwise it was a very good game. Confident with the puck, and he was a transition monster last night, which this team has been sorely lacking lately.

 

[TheProspector]

Just going to leave this here, because a lot of people don't seem to know this.

The Toronto Maple Leafs are 2nd in the league in points, 2nd in goal differential, 2nd in goals for, 7th in goals against, 1st in road wins, and has Tavares, Marner, Matthews, Nylander, Kadri, Rielly, Gardiner, and Andersen all on the same team.

Lighten the f*** up, people. This is the best Leafs team probably ever. Certainly in most of our lifetimes.

 

[diceman934]

So you have just published and told the entire hockey world that you feel "Connor Brown and Hyman are better in every aspect of the game period" vs Leivo. This standing in the face of better production, better possession stats, better eye test along the wall, in the O zone. He has a better shot especially over Brown.

I am just going to rest on that gem. One of the two players you just mentioned can be argued for and that's Hyman. He has stone hands but he does not destroy a lines chemistry in the O zone the way Brown has all season and most of last.

Brown has a hockey IQ. Levio not so much. Brown vastly superior skater, forechecker, penalty killer and can think the game at the speed it is played at. Levio struggles to play at the speed we played at. He takes far to long to release his shot and Brown is better along the wall then Levio as well. Thinking that Levio is better then Brown is just that thinking. The proof is in play. Brown if he stays with Kadri this year will produce and be a valuable PK who is also going to see a lot of usage late in games to defend leads neither of these are areas that Levio was capable of doing. Brown can play up in the line up and look good as seen last night.

If we put Brown up on the trade market he would return more then an AHL player but what do hockey GM’s know!

 

[JT AM da real deal]

I think you need to get your eyes checked coach. Willy was flying last night. One bad shift where he got stuck out late and took a penalty. Otherwise it was a very good game. Confident with the puck, and he was a transition monster last night, which this team has been sorely lacking lately.

He looked out of breadth badly. 3 bad penalties. Floated high like usual. But agree every team can have 1 Nylander or Kessel. Kadri was covering for him all night.

 

[thewave]

Brown has a hockey IQ. Levio not so much. Brown vastly superior skater, forechecker, penalty killer and can think the game at the speed it is played at. Levio struggles to play at the speed we played at. He takes far to long to release his shot and Brown is better along the wall then Levio as well. Thinking that Levio is better then Brown is just that thinking. The proof is in play. Brown if he stays with Kadri this year will produce and be a valuable PK who is also going to see a lot of usage late in games to defend leads neither of these are areas that Levio was capable of doing. Brown can play up in the line up and look good as seen last night.

If we put Brown up on the trade market he would return more then an AHL player but what do hockey GM’s know!

We'll revisit this in 25-30 games and just see how well Leivo is doing. I think we can both agree 30 games is enough to get an idea, it's not a season but it's a legitimate glimpse. If Leivo is performing, he obviously has hockey IQ but I also argue you can not have the stats he does and not have a Hockey IQ to begin with. It makes no sense to me.

 

[Brown Dog]

Just going to leave this here, because a lot of people don't seem to know this.View attachment 164497

The Toronto Maple Leafs are 2nd in the league in points, 2nd in goal differential, 2nd in goals for, 7th in goals against, 1st in road wins, and has Tavares, Marner, Matthews, Nylander, Kadri, Rielly, Gardiner, and Andersen all on the same team.

Lighten the **** up, people. This is the best Leafs team probably ever. Certainly in most of our lifetimes.

 

[FalcorMulch]

He looked out of breadth badly. 3 bad penalties. Floated high like usual. But agree every team can have 1 Nylander or Kessel. Kadri was covering for him all night.

He looked out of breath badly once because he got caught out on a long shift. Every player in the league would be out of breath in that situation. One bad penalty.

You're just seeing what you want to see (or god forbid, lying on the internet to make a point!). He was engaged, skating, making good plays with the puck, and didn't shy away from using his body to keep possession. Made some mistakes that you would expect from a guy playing his third game, who cares.

 

[Spirit of 67]

There are a few 500 pound gorrilla issues which will define Dubas
1. Matty signing and CAP
2. Marner signing and CAP
3. Getting vet defense help for Cup run this year
4. Trading Gards for defense and pick
5. Kappy signing and CAP
6. Development of Sandin and Lilly
7. Continue smart drafting of defense

Boy are you gonna be unhappy

 

[Menzinger]

My point was to dispute this silly notion that Dubas traded Leivo for some reason other than him wanting to keep both Marincin and Holl in the pressbox.

Neither Holl nor Marincin have been in the same situation as long as Leivo had in the past - Leivo also has the potential make a more established nhl career than either of the two D men (not to mention the Leafs also have a surplus of forwards).