LeBrun: " Kyle Dubas is listening to everyone on his roster outside of his "core guys" "

[Xirik]

I would expect the value of Jarry to be similar to that of Saros.

In division, I think you're looking at Holtz or Mercer quite honestly. Something like: Jarry+Poulin for Holtz/Mercer+Schmid. Something like that where it's helps balance things out with a secondary asset.

Compared to the rumored ask for Saros and him wanting a substantial raise in his next contract I would probably do that trade for Jarry

 

[Voight]

I think someone would bite on Jarry. He is having a really good year.

he didn't have a very good year last year and hes been dog shit in the playoffs.

I really don't see a team going for him.

 

[Midnight Judges]

I also find the "no one would trade a 1st for Karlsson because teams imploded after acquiring Karlsson" take hilarious when you look at an extremely similar situation with Duchene in Ottawa, where they imploded after trading for Duchene but still got good value for a rental Duchene about a year and a half later.

Maybe because Duchene was 28 at the time? Karlsson is going to be 36 in the last season of his contract.

You also predicted that Karlsson would be a significant improvement for the team. You thought this significantly increased their likelihood of making the playoffs (you weren't alone in this - it was a popular prediction at the time). In hindsight that doesn't appear to be the case, yet your opinions from last offseason are apparently unimpacted.

I think what you are missing is that Karlsson's perceived value has utterly tanked since his Norris win. Since the Sharks were so terrible, it was a story of maybe the team is so bad that his excellence was just distorted beyond recognition in terms of the extremely high goals allowed totals with him on the ice. Maybe he really was the best defenseman in the NHL and we just didn't have the right measuring stick. I mean, I didn't buy it but many people obviously did.

That theory has been pretty well blown away this season. The idea that the most effective defenseman in the entire NHL could be added to a team and that team would retain its key players yet show no improvement at all seems contradictory. As a result, Karlsson will likely not receive even the slightest amount of attention for the Norris this season.

How could his trade value not have taken a hit?

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

Karlsson is there forever, unless Ottawa gets sentimental - or there is a bad contract for bad contract type swap available.

Which is not the same as saying he is bad, but look at how the market for him fleshed out last year coming off of one of the greatest OFD seasons of all time. There is zero chance that is a real market for him.

Something around Karlsson for Chabot+Korpisalo would make sense from an aspect of balancing negative contracts and making both teams better. It might not make sense in terms of fit in the room, considering Karlsson would have to be fine with coming back to an Ottawa team that is no longer his.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Maybe because Duchene was 28 at the time? Karlsson is going to be 36 in the last season of his contract.

You also predicted that Karlsson would be a significant improvement for the team. You thought this significantly increased their likelihood of making the playoffs (you weren't alone in this - it was a popular prediction at the time). In hindsight that doesn't appear to be the case, yet your opinions from last offseason are apparently unimpacted.

I think what you are missing is that Karlsson's perceived value has utterly tanked since his Norris win. Since the Sharks were so terrible, it was a story of maybe the team is so bad that his excellence was just distorted beyond recognition in terms of the extremely high goals allowed totals with him on the ice. Maybe he really was the best defenseman in the NHL and we just didn't have the right measuring stick. I mean, I didn't buy it but many people obviously did.

That theory has been pretty well blown away this season. Karlsson will likely not receive even the slightest amount of attention for the Norris.

How could his trade value not have taken a hit?

Oh no, he won't get Norris votes! I guess that means he just sucks donkey ass!

 

[hotpaws]

Everyone is on the table for me. Team rather lose then fire Sullivan so idgaf anymore.

a new coach won't make much of a difference and Dubie knows if he cans Sullivan then the attention turns to him and his brutal off season

 

[Empoleon8771]

what's hilarious is you believing mentioning Reaves who can easily be buried at a minimal cap penalty is some weird defense of the brutal off season moves Dubas made

i just have to start at the more minor moves like Accari for 3 yrs at 2m per to show how incompetent Dubas is

I'm not defending anything, I'm saying your new GM sucks too.

People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Oh no, he won't get Norris votes! I guess that means he just sucks donkey ass!

Aren't trade values based in part on perceptions of a player's worth?

 

[66-30-33]

a new coach won't make much of a difference and Dubie knows if he cans Sullivan then the attention turns to him and his brutal off season

What brutal offseason? we got Karlsson for cheap and Smith for cheap even if he didn't workout. Only thing brutal is keeping the coach and defending him like he's above the team when every single other team woulda fired him by now.

 

[fahad203]

Jesus Christ, both Toronto and Pittsburgh are ran by absolute mooks. Why did Dubas even take this job? What a dummy. What a mess.

 

[hotpaws]

I'm not defending anything, I'm saying your new GM sucks too.

People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

The jury's still out on Tre in Toronto , Dubas on the other hand has already shown that he's an incompetent poser just as he was in Toronto .

 

[Leafshater67]

i don’t think there’s a single team who’s in need of a coaching change as bad as the pens, even out of the ones who already did it.

It’s insane to burn these guys’ last years to keep Mike Sullivan around. Insane. The entire coaching staff needs to go and it should have happened last year.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Aren't trade values based on perceptions of a player's worth?

No, they're based on a variety of things including player's worth, market status, contract status and stuff like that.

Karlsson got traded for a poor return (relative to the season he had) last off-season because the flat cap and San Jose's unwillingness to eat money left an incredibly small market. Extrapolating those conditions to a hypothetical rental Karlsson trade in 2-3 years is completely nonsensical. Him coming in at 2 years at $7.5 million in 2 years with a rapidly rising cap versus 4 years at $10 million with a stagnant cap are two wildly different situations.

The jury's still out on Tre in Toronto , Dubas on the other hand has already shown that he's an incompetent poser just as he was in Toronto .

Lmfao whatever you say chief.

Treliving has been trash for the Leafs. The Leafs are on pace to be about 10 points worse than they were last year while all of Treliving's additions (like Domi, Bertuzzi, Klingberg and Reaves) have sucked. You bring up Acciari as a bad move Dubas made while Treliving made the same exact move with grossly overpaying Kampf.

Again, people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. Treliving has been absolute trash for the Leafs as well.

 

[hotpaws]

What brutal offseason? we got Karlsson for cheap and Smith for cheap even if he didn't workout. Only thing brutal is keeping the coach and defending him like he's above the team when every single other team woulda fired him by now.

you might be giving up at a top 10 pick as well as a high 2nd while having a 10m cap hit for the next 3 yrs for a player that hasn't improved your team and you think that's cheap

and paying a 3rd for a cap dump is cheap ? no one would touch Smith if you waived him

as i said , keeping the coach deflects attention away from Dubie

oh yea just remembered , how's the Greaves signing working out for you , lol

 

[Empoleon8771]

How's Tyler Bertuzzi doing for the Leafs? 22 points in 53 games while making $5.5 million a year. Or how about Reaves? 2 goals and 2 points in 28 games while signed for 3 years as a 37 year old. Or how about Kampf? 9 points in 50 games, signed for 4 years at $2.5 million. Or how about Klingberg, who was mercifully put on LTIR because of how bad he was when healthy? Or what about Samsonov, who's currently rocking an .882 save% for the Leafs?

Again, people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. If not for Matthews and Nylander having monster years, the Leafs wouldn't even be in a playoff spot.

 

[66-30-33]

you might be giving up at a top 10 pick as well as a high 2nd while having a 10m cap hit for the next 3 yrs for a player that hasn't improved your team and you think that's cheap

and paying a 3rd for a cap dump is cheap ? no one would touch Smith if you waived

as i said , keeping the coach deflects attention away from Dubie

oh yea just remembered , how's the Greaves signing working out for you , lol

Your obsession with Dubas is hilarious. Yes, a coaching staff change can help the team, it helped us not once but twice already. It's helped the Oilers and the Blues as well.

I also don't care about Graves. I'm one of the few who don't mind him like I was one of the few who didn't mind Petry,

 

[hotpaws]

Lmfao whatever you say chief.

Treliving has been trash for the Leafs. The Leafs are on pace to be about 10 points worse than they were last year while all of Treliving's additions (like Domi, Bertuzzi, Klingberg and Reaves) have sucked. You bring up Acciari as a bad move Dubas made while Treliving made the same exact move with grossly overpaying Kampf.

Again, people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. Treliving has been absolute trash for the Leafs as well.

Domi has played well for us and is at roughly half a point a game with very little pp time , all at 3m x 1yr

Bert has played well and has had a ton of chances but he just can't score and he needs to but even saying this he's only on a 1 yr deal

Reaves i can bury easily unlike Acarri who make 6/7 000 k more

Berg was a gamble that didn't work out but he's on ltir and only signed for a yr

and even if you don't agree it's not like Dubie who was trading picks for cap anchors like Smith

Kampf was probably his worst move and had ROR wanted to re sign he wouldn't have got that deal but when you walk into a team with no C depth you get desperate to retain what you have .

Dubie also left him without a 2nd rd pick for 4 yrs and no 1st next yr .

 

[SEALBound]

How's Tyler Bertuzzi doing for the Leafs? 22 points in 53 games while making $5.5 million a year. Or how about Reaves? 2 goals and 2 points in 28 games while signed for 3 years as a 37 year old. Or how about Kampf? 9 points in 50 games, signed for 4 years at $2.5 million. Or how about Klingberg, who was mercifully put on LTIR because of how bad he was when healthy? Or what about Samsonov, who's currently rocking an .882 save% for the Leafs?

Again, people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. If not for Matthews and Nylander having monster years, the Leafs wouldn't even be in a playoff spot.

You forgot Max Domi as well.

This is a hard truth that Leafs fans need to hear.

 

[hotpaws]

Your obsession with Dubas is hilarious. Yes, a coaching staff change can help the team, it helped us not once but twice already. It's helped the Oilers and the Blues as well.

I also don't care about Graves. I'm one of the few who don't mind him like I was one of the few who didn't mind Petry,

and your obsession with blaming everything on the coach is hilarious

your core is ancient and your bottom 6 is meh , i don't understand how you believe a coaching change will help this

the Oilers biggest problem was in net and had Skinner not turned his season around they'd still be on the outside of the playoffs looking in , goaltending hasn't been your problem

 

[Empoleon8771]

Domi has played well for us and is at roughly half a point a game with very little pp time , all at 3m x 1yr

Bert has played well and has had a ton of chances but he just can't score and he needs to but even saying this he's only on a 1 yr deal

Reaves i can bury easily unlike Acarri who make 6/7 000 k more

Berg was a gamble that didn't work out but he's on ltir and only signed for a yr

and even if you don't agree it's not like Dubie who was trading picks for cap anchors like Smith

Kampf was probably his worst move and had ROR wanted to re sign he wouldn't have got that deal but when you walk into a team with no C depth you get desperate to retain what you have .

Dubie also left him without a 2nd rd pick for 4 yrs and no 1st next yr .

You: "Domi has played well for us and is roughly at half a point a game"
Also you: "A guy making $5 million a year for half a point per game is a cap anchor that Dubas spent a 3rd round pick on"

Again, people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. Treliving has been just as trash for the Leafs as you think Dubas has been for the Penguins. The only reason the Leafs aren't out of a playoff spot right now is because Nylander and Matthews have had monster years. Those two alone account for 40% of Toronto's goal scoring this year.

The Leafs have shitty depth scoring, bad goaltending, bad team defense and bad penalty killing. They're literally only being saved by their powerplay and 2 players playing at superstar levels. But yes, Treliving has done a marvelous job and isn't being just absolutely bailed out by Matthews and Nylander having great seasons!

 

[66-30-33]

and your obsession with blaming everything on the coach is hilarious

your core is ancient and your bottom 6 is meh , i don't understand how you believe a coaching change will change this

the Oilers biggest problem was in net and Skinner not turned his season around they'd still be on the outside of the playoffs looking in , goaltending hasn't been your problem

Because Pens have a coach problem, not a GM problem like you think.

Anyway, this is boring. I got better things to do.

 

[hotpaws]

You: "Domi has played well for us and is roughly at half a point a game"
Also you: "A guy making $5 million a year for half a point per game is a cap anchor that Dubas spent a 3rd round pick on"

Again, people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. Treliving has been just as trash for the Leafs as you think Dubas has been for the Penguins. The only reason the Leafs aren't out of a playoff spot right now is because Nylander and Matthews have had monster years. Those two alone account for 40% of Toronto's goal scoring this year.

The Leafs have shitty depth scoring, bad goaltending, bad team defense and bad penalty killing. They're literally only being saved by their powerplay and 2 players playing at superstar levels. But yes, Treliving has done a marvelous job and isn't being just absolutely bailed out by Matthews and Nylander having great seasons!

the only reason the Leafs have made the playoffs for the last 7 yrs is because of Mathews/Marner/Nylander , none of which Dubas brought in so i have no idea what your point is

and while i don't give f*** if they fired Tre the fact is he had 1 summer to try to fill all the holes Dubas left without a 2nd rd pick pick for FOUR yrs . no 1st next yr and a weak prospect pool and a mediocre ufa pool

oh yea , Dubas also left behind a corpse making 11m who can basically only stand on top of the crease and hope the puck deflects off him before going into the net so he can get a point

Because Pens have a coach problem, not a GM problem like you think.

Anyway, this is boring. I got better things to do.

your team has a lot more problems than just the coach , lol

 

[Empoleon8771]

What's funny about all of this is that I don't even think Dubas has done a particularly good job with the Penguins. I posted like an hour ago that I'd call his performance borderline between poor and mediocre, and that he has had far too many duds and too few hits for me to put him at anything higher than that. Nedjelkovic is the only players that he has added that have been "great" IMO, while Acciari, Graves and Harkins have been absolute duds of additions.

It's just hilarious to see Leafs fans coming in here to shit talk Dubas as they have their own shitty GM problems. Beyond their top guys, the Leafs are a crap team, and that's the team that Treliving has built. But apparently we can't say Treliving has been trash while Dubas has been trash?

A great way to show how trash of a team Treliving has built is by looking at what percentage of goals Toronto's big 3 have accounted for:

-2023-2024: 51.8% (100 of 193 goals)
-2022-2023: 39.6% (110 of 278 goals)
-2021-2022: 41.3% (129 of 312 goals)
-2020-2021: 41.9% (78 of 186 goals)

Huh, it's almost like the Leafs are way more reliant on the big guns to produce this year, mostly because Treliving did a dogshit job at adding talent around those guys.

Again, this isn't to defend how Dubas has done in Pittsburgh. But maybe take a look at your own GM before insisting that Dubas is the worst GM of all time.

 

[SeanMoneyHands]

 

[Epictetus]

Pretty funny that Dubas has that "core" vs "not core" distinction so firmly established already in Pittsburgh and it was the same thing that plagued him in Toronto.

He's even doubling down on it. Now maybe that's ownership speaking as you'd never be able to sell off Crosby and Malkin, etc. there, but he should have known that.