Kucherovs development

[DFC]

I have seen Kucherov play live in juniors and while he produced roughly 2 PPG I was not really sure his game would translate to the pros as I thought he was a bit soft , prone to overpassing and trying stuffs too complicated for no reasons. If I had to guess between him and Andrighetto im not sure who I would have chosen at that time.

Crazy progression and pretty funny with hindsight to see he was traded to Rouyn by the remparts (quebec) so they could keep.. Grigorenko.

He's still kind of like that. His game is based on dynamics. One second it looks like he's playing soft, the next he turns on the jets and catches a goalie off guard with a top-shelf laser beam.

 

[Star Ocean]

That's what CHL and AHL do to a russian forward. A major stall of development.

Same for swedes actually.

 

[PM]

The Syracuse Crunch team he played for graduated so many good NHL players. They have to be the most successful AHL team in the past 20 years for developing players. Won at least one Calder Cup I think too.

 

[Passchendaele]

Crazy development, I mean every team passed on him in 2011. Even Tampa drafted Namestnikov before him. Hindsight 20/20 I guess

The Russian Factor was a thing, even in 2011.

Namestnikov was playing in the CHL, thus (in theory) was a safer pick.

 

[Atas2000]

Same for swedes actually.

I can't call myself an expert on swedish prospects, but I see many great ones coming out of the SHL, also post draft.

 

[T REX]

Yzerman knows his Russians. I wonder from where...

 

[JPeeper]

The fact he’s a 2nd Rounder makes ya think that literately any team could’ve had IMO the best winger in the NHL. But gotta admit that Tampa knows how to develop them some very good forwards, and who knows if he would have the same success in another teams system.

Gaudreau was a 4th rounder in the same draft, arguably the two best players in their draft.

And the Flames had both Gaudreau and Kucherov on their draft list marked as *special* off the board picks. What could have been if the Flames picked both.

If you look at Gaudreau, he is basically on the exact same career path points wise (with age) except had a better rookie campaign.

 

[dechire]

That's what CHL and AHL do to a russian forward. A major stall of development.

Yeah just think about how much better he'd be if he stayed on the team that didn't tell him he needed shoulder surgery and made him play through the injury and then refused to pay for the treatment. He'd be the best player who ever had to retire at age 25.

 

[bobbyking]

He doesn't have the best hands, fastest legs, hardest shot or biggest strength, but he has arguably the greatest hockey iq in the history of the game.

LOLOL

 

[DFC]

The Syracuse Crunch team he played for graduated so many good NHL players. They have to be the most successful AHL team in the past 20 years for developing players. Won at least one Calder Cup I think too.

Nah, they won the CC in Norfolk. No cups since moving to Syracuse but either 1 or 2 finals appearances (2, I think, but I'm too lazy to look it up). Kuch's AHL team didn't have Johnson, Palat, or Killorn. He wasn't part of the group that won 28 straight games in Norfolk. Kuch played 13 games, if I'm not mistaken, the next year in Syracuse, and then went to the NHL.

 

[Atas2000]

Yeah just think about how much better he'd be if he stayed on the team that didn't tell him he needed shoulder surgery and made him play through the injury and then refused to pay for the treatment. He'd be the best player who ever had to retire at age 25.

Nice story. You know you add a lot of fantasy to facts here?

If the team was bad(it was) there were 20+ others. Facts are his CHL/AHL adventure generated that major dip in the development curve of one of the most talented players of the decade.

 

[DFC]

Nice story. You know you add a lot of fantasy to facts here?

If the team was bad(it was) there were 20+ others. Facts are his CHL/AHL adventure generated that major dip in the development curve of one of the most talented players of the decade.

There was no dip in Kucherov's development. He was a blazing CHL scorer, and played 13 games in the AHL. The "dip" in Kucherov's development was he lost confidence as a rookie when Jon Cooper played him 8-10 minutes per game for defensive issues. It was only an injury to Brett Connolly, of all people, that got Kucherov his opportunity in the top-six, and it would be two more years before Kuch got 1st PP unit duty.

Kucherov's development/production has been more/less proportionate with the amount of opportunity he's been given. More icetime = more points. More primetime opportunities = more points. He was brought along pretty slowly once he made the NHL.

 

[dechire]

Nice story. You know you add a lot of fantasy to facts here?

If the team was bad(it was) there were 20+ others. Facts are his CHL/AHL adventure generated that major dip in the development curve of one of the most talented players of the decade.

My toughest moment was when I had those injuries, the shoulder, and had no money. Back in Russia, (CSKA) threw me into a situation where they said, 'We don't believe you have anything in the shoulder, if you want to do surgery, you have to pay for it yourself.' But at the time, I didn't have much money.
It was tough. Not as a player, but as a person. I felt like, I don't really need them. They used me. At the time, my agent called (Lightning GM) Steve Yzerman. I had just got drafted. I came here a week after I told my agent to call Steve. I'm really happy and blessed that (the Lightning) helped me out, paid for my surgery, even though I was just drafted. I wasn't even thinking to come (to North America) at the time. I'm really grateful.

Yeah sure. I totally made up those facts.

Q: Could you follow CSKA Moscow, where did you leave for the NHL?
A: I do not like watching CSKA, because the team plays a terrible hockey game. I feel sorry for the guys who are performing there. I'm only happy for Igor Ozhiganov, that he is doing well, and he is so entrenched in the basis. I only follow his successes.
Q: CSKA came to you when there was no contract?
A: No. And I would not even consider CSKA.

Sounds like he really misses his old team.

 

[DistantThunderRep]

I remember hearing Tampa made a mistake and picked Kuch in the second. They wanted to picked Nesterov in the second round but got the wrong Nikita.

I don't remember where I heard this and I'm not sure if it's true. But would be hilarious if it was.

 

[snipes]

I remember hearing Tampa made a mistake and picked Kuch in the second. They wanted to picked Nesterov in the second round but got the wrong Nikita.

I don't remember where I heard this and I'm not sure if it's true. But would be hilarious if it was.

I’m not sure I believe that’s true but holy **** would that ever be a hilarious twist of fate.

 

[DFC]

I remember hearing Tampa made a mistake and picked Kuch in the second. They wanted to picked Nesterov in the second round but got the wrong Nikita.

I don't remember where I heard this and I'm not sure if it's true. But would be hilarious if it was.

I'm gonna guess Al Murray knows his Nikitas. If it were Bobby Taylor heading up the draft, sure, although we'd likely be drafting Dmitry Kucherov, from some pond hockey league in Siberia.

 

[YayHockeysBack]

Rare case of pure linear development, he got better every single year.

The rest of the league is screwed in 2025 . . . 90 goals, 160 assists, 250 points.

 

[DFC]

Yeah sure. I totally made up those facts.

Sounds like he really misses his old team.

...You didn't have to kill him that dead.

 

[Atas2000]

There was no dip in Kucherov's development. He was a blazing CHL scorer, and played 13 games in the AHL. The "dip" in Kucherov's development was he lost confidence as a rookie when Jon Cooper played him 8-10 minutes per game for defensive issues. It was only an injury to Brett Connolly, of all people, that got Kucherov his opportunity in the top-six, and it would be two more years before Kuch got 1st PP unit duty.

Kucherov's development/production has been more/less proportionate with the amount of opportunity he's been given. More icetime = more points. More primetime opportunities = more points. He was brought along pretty slowly once he made the NHL.

CHL stats are absolutely meaningless. Yakupov was a blazing scorer in the OHL.

The whole story about Cooper and Connolly is the quintessence of why this is the wrong way. No need to come to the NHL until you are ready AND the coaches in the "best league in the world" understand what kind of player they are getting.

 

[PM]

Nah, they won the CC in Norfolk. No cups since moving to Syracuse but either 1 or 2 finals appearances (2, I think, but I'm too lazy to look it up). Kuch's AHL team didn't have Johnson, Palat, or Killorn. He wasn't part of the group that won 28 straight games in Norfolk. Kuch played 13 games, if I'm not mistaken, the next year in Syracuse, and then went to the NHL.

Ah my mistake. I forgot they didn’t overlap. He was on the same team as Vasilevsky I think though.

 

[DFC]

CHL stats are absolutely meaningless. Yakupov was a blazing scorer in the OHL.

The whole story about Cooper and Connolly is the quintessence of why this is the wrong way. No need to come to the NHL until you are ready AND the coaches in the "best league in the world" understand what kind of player they are getting.

Sure. But that's what happened. Guys hit our NHL team and, unless their name is Ondrej Palat, they get a small role. If they stay out of the doghouse (Brayden Point), the role expands. Kucherov had a lot of defensive lapses and Cooper wouldn't put him on the ice more than 10 minutes per game. Even the next year, when Kucherov caught fire, he averaged something like 14 minutes per game.

Kucherov scores very proportionately with the amount of opportunity he's given. He's always been like that. I don't think there's any argument whatsoever that his development "stalled," given the Cooper factor. He didn't score as much as he would the next year, when he returned to camp when an improved defensive game, but he had plenty of chances in that first year. He had nearly a breakaway per game for like the first 15 games of his career.

 

[Atas2000]

Yeah sure. I totally made up those facts.

Sounds like he really misses his old team.

1. Yes, you've made up half of this.

2. Kucherov is a human being. A rather introverted and sometimes strange one too. I prefer facts to opinions even the opinion of Kuch himself. All I see is that he is still p...ed with the team that basically does not exist anymore. A lot has changed since that time. Is him being p...ed a confirmation to anything? Again, two players, two paths. Both siccessful. Gusev and Kucherov. Only Kucherov was always the most talented guy so he survoved that dip. Smart development brings players along even if they aren't Kucherov. That happened to Gusev.

 

[DFC]

Ah my mistake. I forgot they didn’t overlap. He was on the same team as Vasilevsky I think though.

Kucherov's time in the AHL is pretty negligible. He was there for 13 games if I'm not mistaken, and scored, I think, 10 goals. After that he was in the NHL, in Jon Cooper's doghouse. But that's not uncommon for young scoring forwards in TB.

 

[DFC]

1. Yes, you've made up half of this.

2. Kucherov is a human being. A rather introverted and sometimes strange one too. I prefer facts to opinions even the opinion of Kuch himself. All I see is that he is still p...ed with the team that basically does not exist anymore. A lot has changed since that time. Is him being p...ed a confirmation to anything? Again, two players, two paths. Both siccessful. Gusev and Kucherov. Only Kucherov was always the most talented guy so he survoved that dip. Smart development brings players along even if they aren't Kucherov. That happened to Gusev.

I tend to believe the guy who actually had the surgery when it comes to the circumstances surrounding it.

 

[King Mapes]

He doesn't have the best hands, fastest legs, hardest shot or biggest strength, but he has arguably the greatest hockey iq in the history of the game.

The last part was clearly Gretzky.

He was the definition of boom or bust. I remember thinking this guy will either be a PPG player or a bust.