Player Discussion: Kristian Vesalainen [Update: Signed ELC]

[ffh]

I would say having an out clause to Finland would create doubt.

you do if you are trying to bluff someone.

 

[MardyBum]

you do if you are trying to bluff someone.

Yeah, it must be the more pointlessly complicated reason and not "I've never played in the AHL and don't know the coaches there so I don't want to commit playing a year there with no option to leave"

If he hates his time in the AHL he'll leave. If he enjoys it (I suspect he will, just like Niku did) he'll stay.

 

[MardyBum]

I'm happy with this. Would have preferred he started in the AHL, but regardless he needs ice time to adapt to the NA game. Can rotate Petan/Lemieux.

I hope this isn't just for the weekend. Let him play up until the end of October. If he's playing great call him up for the Finland trip.

 

[Adam da bomb]

So, a few things.

First, my expectation is that if KV stays in Finland, it will be with the Jets blessings. I don't see them issuing the ultimatums and veiled threats you envision.
Two, I don't see Appleton being a serious threat to climb above KV on the depth chart. I mean, he's not even a LW never mind whether he really has NHL potential.
Three, I wouldn't be so quick to say Roslo won't be going back to the Moose. Granted he's had limited ice time, but I don't think he's yet demonstrated that he should be here to stay.

I think Roslo has looked pretty great. He has been the best player on that line in their end, and other than one bad play defensively last game I think he has been pretty good defensively as well.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I wonder if he is just down for the weekend games for playing time and then gets called up on Monday.

Why would they do that? They are now at the 22 man roster they said they might go with this year. Dano was tossed away to get here.

 

[Daximus]

Will be good for him to get some offence going in the A. He isn't a horrible player but he just can't keep up offensively right now. He'll be able to play his game a little better with more minutes with the Moose. Get some PP and maybe some PK time too.

 

[Daximus]

Why would they do that? They are now at the 22 man roster they said they might go with this year. Dano was tossed away to get here.

Saves money on the cap. Remember the more you save now the more you have at the deadline.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

you do if you are trying to bluff someone.

Exactly! It creates doubt.

 

[Board Bard]

That's quite something. Getting near momentous. It'll be interesting.

 

[Board Bard]

I think that's very plausible. Give Vesa a taste of the NHL and AHL so he can make an informed decision about his future. Jets can be pretty frank with him and say look at Connor. He came here, was healthy scratched a bunch until game 30 and then was sent down. He spent time in the A and when his shot came he was ready and hasn't looked back. Look at Rosie. Played in the AHL and then got some playoff games in and now has secured a spot and won't look back. Also look at Dano. Came to camp out of shape when he had his chance to grab a spot and missed his opportunity here as others passed him on the depth chart. Look at Lemeiux, he's getting his shot now to prove what he can do but he spent a few seasons in the AHL first. Petan needs to be ready when his chance comes.

Jets could say "Vesa, you can do what you want but if Appleton puts in another strong season, maybe he's next in line. You're going to have to spend some time in the AHL at some point to prove that you're ready. You can do that now or next year, or the year after that. It's up to you, but whenever you decide to come over, handing you a spot in our NHL lineup isn't likely in the cards. We gave you a solid look this year but you haven't slammed the door on your competition. We gave you an NHL cheque for a bit and took you to play in Finland. If you want to stay in Finland fine, but if you get on that plane, we expect you to stay with the Moose the entire season. We'll call you up for playoffs if we make it and you might have an inside track for a roster spot next year. That's entirely up to you and how you play."

Then Xerox that and tape it to the locker of every player on an ELC.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Saves money on the cap. Remember the more you save now the more you have at the deadline.

No. Recalling him after the weekend does exactly the opposite of saving money on the cap. I'm not questioning why they send him down. I'm questioning why they would recall him to sit in the press box again.

 

[Board Bard]

Will be good for him to get some offence going in the A. He isn't a horrible player but he just can't keep up offensively right now. He'll be able to play his game a little better with more minutes with the Moose. Get some PP and maybe some PK time too.

Garret noted that much of Ves's offence comes from PP. Put him on the no. 1 Moose PP, let him hone what he's best at. And work on the other stuff when he's not on the PP. Morrissey to Ehlers to Ves might be a good no. 2 up the road.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Garret noted that much of Ves's offence comes from PP. Put him on the no. 1 Moose PP, let him hone what he's best at. And work on the other stuff when he's not on the PP. Morrissey to Ehlers to Ves might be a good no. 2 up the road.

Is that something to be concerned about? We have enough powerplay specialists. Would rather most of his points came es

 

[Daximus]

No. Recalling him after the weekend does exactly the opposite of saving money on the cap. I'm not questioning why they send him down. I'm questioning why they would recall him to sit in the press box again.

They probably leave him down there until the Finland trip.

 

[GaryPoppins]

They probably leave him down there until the Finland trip.

TBH, having him on the Finland trip should be the last thing they're concerned about.

 

[Daximus]

Garret noted that much of Ves's offence comes from PP. Put him on the no. 1 Moose PP, let him hone what he's best at. And work on the other stuff when he's not on the PP. Morrissey to Ehlers to Ves might be a good no. 2 up the road.

Is that something to be concerned about? We have enough powerplay specialists. Would rather most of his points came es

He is definitely a PP specialist. He's got a good one-timer from the right side of the ice and if he develops right we will eventually be able to mirror PP1 on PP2 and just completely destroy. But he needs to work on his PK game as well I think. Always good to have someone who can PK if need be. Other then that just 5v5 offence.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

They probably leave him down there until the Finland trip.

That's my guess. After that trip? Depends on how much he can improve from now until then. He could play as many as 5 Moose games, plus the 2 NHL games in Finland. Will that be enough to get him over the hump? Probably not, IMO. But he is not all that far short of readiness, so I think it is possible. There was some visible progress in his 5 games with the Jets.

I hope they don't give in to any temptation to rush him though. He has a lot of potential if he is handled properly.

 

[Daximus]

TBH, having him on the Finland trip should be the last thing they're concerned about.

I don't think it's a big deal really. Let the kid get some game time in his home country. I hope they call up Niku too.

 

[DudeWhereIsMakar]

I think he'll adjust to the North American game much quicker in the AHL with all that ice-time.

 

[Daximus]

That's my guess. After that trip? Depends on how much he can improve from now until then. He could play as many as 5 Moose games, plus the 2 NHL games in Finland. Will that be enough to get him over the hump? Probably not, IMO. But he is not all that far short of readiness, so I think it is possible. There was some visible progress in his 5 games with the Jets.

I hope they don't give in to any temptation to rush him though. He has a lot of potential if he is handled properly.

Yea I imagine he gets called up for the Finland games, gets sent down, then depending on where we are at the end of the season he may get a few more games to bump his salary up. Hard to say what goes on behind closed doors but the Jets may have a handshake agreement that if he sticks around he gets the Finland games and a set amount of games to ensure he gets a certain amount of salary. Probably the 9 total at minimum. It's not unheard of for this to happen.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Yea I imagine he gets called up for the Finland games, gets sent down, then depending on where we are at the end of the season he may get a few more games to bump his salary up. Hard to say what goes on behind closed doors but the Jets may have a handshake agreement that if he sticks around he gets the Finland games and a set amount of games to ensure he gets a certain amount of salary. Probably the 9 total at minimum. It's not unheard of for this to happen.

He has 5 games now. Assuming he dresses for both Finland games he will be at 7. That leaves room for just 2 more later. By late season/PO time they will have to make a decision on whether he adds enough value to be worth burning a year or not. I doubt they will do that unless injuries force it. But I could see that kind of agreement for the 9 games. Actually, if it is just about giving him a certain amount of $$$, he doesn't even need to play. The pay goes by days on the roster, not games played.

 

[Daximus]

He has 5 games now. Assuming he dresses for both Finland games he will be at 7. That leaves room for just 2 more later. By late season/PO time they will have to make a decision on whether he adds enough value to be worth burning a year or not. I doubt they will do that unless injuries force it. But I could see that kind of agreement for the 9 games. Actually, if it is just about giving him a certain amount of $$$, he doesn't even need to play. The pay goes by days on the roster, not games played.

True but I think there are some weird things with the escrow, I remember reading about a certain amount of days actually costs players more because of the way the pay periods work. Teams don't hire cap managers for nothing. Stuff gets really complicated. I'd imagine the Jets won't call him up until the last two games of the season if he gets the Finland games.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

True but I think there are some weird things with the escrow, I remember reading about a certain amount of days actually costs players more because of the way the pay periods work. Teams don't hire cap managers for nothing. Stuff gets really complicated. I'd imagine the Jets won't call him up until the last two games of the season if he gets the Finland games.

Probably, but that will depend on how quickly he ramps up his game. I don't want to get into trying to predict that. Also the effect of injuries, which will come.

 

[Flair Hay]

Seemed inevitable.

Lemieux is bigger and stronger now and more equipped to play 4th line mins and press box.

Qe need Ves to be more than a bottom size grinder next year. Best way to help get him to a top six level is playing him as a top six in AHL or Finland.

 

[Lempo]

Yea I imagine he gets called up for the Finland games, gets sent down, then depending on where we are at the end of the season he may get a few more games to bump his salary up. Hard to say what goes on behind closed doors but the Jets may have a handshake agreement that if he sticks around he gets the Finland games and a set amount of games to ensure he gets a certain amount of salary. Probably the 9 total at minimum. It's not unheard of for this to happen.

I will still insist they will let him have 10+ and start burning the ELC this season as a pre-agreed thing in exchange for signing for AHL instead of KHL for this season. But he does need the AHL at this point, and it can quite well be he won't be up for Finland.