Confirmed with Link: Kraken sign Grubauer (5.9M x 6)

[Gniwder]

Meh. Martin Jones fetched a late 1st. This was when he was a backup and had really good numbers.

Either way, like we both agree, GMRF is unlikely to take a cap dump.

Martin Jones was starter level even though he did play backup for the Kings who of course have Quick. He was actually good for SJ for 3 years before he fell apart along wit the rest of the team.

Vanecek isn't that good. I still watch the Caps often because I grew up a Caps fan. I don't see him starting for a team, whereas SJ traded for a starter when they acquired Jones. Not equivalent but helps set the value. If Jones is worth a 1st, Vanecek is worth less than a 1st.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

Martin Jones was starter level even though he did play backup for the Kings who of course have Quick. He was actually good for SJ for 3 years before he fell apart along wit the rest of the team.

Vanecek isn't that good. I still watch the Caps often because I grew up a Caps fan. I don't see him starting for a team, whereas SJ traded for a starter when they acquired Jones. Not equivalent but helps set the value. If Jones is worth a 1st, Vanecek is worth less than a 1st.

Martin Jones was playing backup to Quick during the years the Kings won the Stanley Cup as one of the best defensive teams in the league. He had good stats but he had, ironically, started fewer games (29) to what Vanecek started last season (36).

Yes, he was good for SJ for 3 years but there is no way you can predict that Vanecek will NOT take the same trajectory other than just making claims based on your intuition.

 

[Gniwder]

Martin Jones was playing backup to Quick during the years the Kings won the Stanley Cup as one of the best defensive teams in the league. He had good stats but he had, ironically, started fewer games (29) to what Vanecek started last season (36).

Yes, he was good for SJ for 3 years but there is no way you can predict that Vanecek will NOT take the same trajectory other than just making claims based on your intuition.

Vanecek is not a positionally sound goalie and doesn't have great technique. He also can't handle any sort of pressure, has split time even in the AHL because he was never seen as the primary goalie targeted for development.

He got games because Samsonov wound up with COVID twice and also a team suspension for a game. Their other backup was 40YO Craig Anderson. You're looking at numbers without understanding the context.

He did well though considering he got thrown into a starter role with zero NHL experience. I don't see his GAA improving from what he did this season though.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

Vanecek is not a positionally sound goalie and doesn't have great technique. He also can't handle any sort of pressure, has split time even in the AHL because he was never seen as the primary goalie targeted for development.

He got games because Samsonov wound up with COVID twice and also a team suspension for a game. Their other backup was 40YO Craig Anderson. You're looking at numbers without understanding the context.

He did well though considering he got thrown into a starter role with zero NHL experience. I don't see his GAA improving from what he did this season though.

And you are spinning your own narrative around the numbers he got.

See .. two can play that game.

 

[Gniwder]

And you are spinning your own narrative around the numbers he got.

See .. two can play that game.

That Samsonov missed a bunch of games because of COVID?!?! Or that Craig Anderson is the backup? Yes, I'm making all of that up.

Vanecek was slated to be the starter in the playoffs so there is that.... but then he got injured in Game 1.

Quite frankly, I think the Caps need an upgrade in goal but they just can't afford it. Samsonov will probably get COVID again, watch....

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

That Samsonov missed a bunch of games because of COVID?!?! Or that Craig Anderson is the backup? Yes, I'm making all of that up.

Vanecek was slated to be the starter in the playoffs so there is that.... but then he got injured in Game 1.

Quite frankly, I think the Caps need an upgrade in goal but they just can't afford it. Samsonov will probably get COVID again, watch....

The point I was trying to make is that it does not matter why Vanecek started the games. The fact is that he was put in that spot and he did fairly well.

 

[Gniwder]

The point I was trying to make is that it does not matter why Vanecek started the games. The fact is that he was put in that spot and he did fairly well.

Let me rephrase the question then because he did well given the situation. I will not argue with that.

Which team is going to trade for Vanecek as a starter? Maybe Buffalo, but they're not gonna give up Shane Wright. Their second round pick is basically a late first.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

Let me rephrase the question then because he did well given the situation. I will not argue with that.

Which team is going to trade for Vanecek as a starter? Maybe Buffalo, but they're not gonna give up Shane Wright. Their second round pick is basically a late first.

I don't know who would. But my point from the start was that I want more than a 1st if I am taking back a cap dump and Vanecek. Maybe 2 2nd's. Maybe a similar prospect who plays a different position. Maybe a package with Vanecek for an upgraded player. I never bought up wanting a 1st for him FYI. You were the one who proposed the trade for Cap Dump + 1st for Vanecek. I just do not see enough value in that for us. Plus, like we both agreed, it is a moot point because GMRF does not appear to be interested in taking on bad contracts.

 

[Gniwder]

I don't know who would. But my point from the start was that I want more than a 1st if I am taking back a cap dump and Vanecek. Maybe 2 2nd's. Maybe a similar prospect who plays a different position. Maybe a package with Vanecek for an upgraded player. I never bought up wanting a 1st for him FYI. You were the one who proposed the trade for Cap Dump + 1st for Vanecek. I just do not see enough value in that for us. Plus, like we both agreed, it is a moot point because GMRF does not appear to be interested in taking on bad contracts.

We can agree to disagree, because we'll find out Vanecek's market value soon enough. I do not see the team holding 3 goalies on the roster.

I've got it as 2nd and 4th rd pick. We'll probably find out in less than a week.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

We can agree to disagree, because we'll find out Vanecek's market value soon enough. I do not see the team holding 3 goalies on the roster.

I've got it as 2nd and 4th rd pick. We'll probably find out in less than a week.

Yeah. And just to make it clear, at the end of the day it does not even matter how you or I value goalies. The value we get back is going to depend a lot on how the market looks like. Sometimes, better players get less value because of the limited market. And at times you just have to look at the TDL to see how crazy GM's can be and make massive overpayments.

I am not going to get too hung up on whatever value we get because at the end of the day, I have no say in that. Will voice my happiness or unhappiness at the trade and move on.

 

[Gniwder]

Yeah. And just to make it clear, at the end of the day it does not even matter how you or I value goalies. The value we get back is going to depend a lot on how the market looks like. Sometimes, better players get less value because of the limited market. And at times you just have to look at the TDL to see how crazy GM's can be and make massive overpayments.

I am not going to get too hung up on whatever value we get because at the end of the day, I have no say in that. Will voice my happiness or unhappiness at the trade and move on.

I guess we found out, lol.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

I guess we found out, lol.

Yep. We sure did .. ha ha.

Oh well. I want to be mad at Francis but realistically Vanecek was the best pick for us from the Caps. Nobody knew Grubauer would NOT re-sign with the Avs and that we could snag him. Neither did anyone know that Dillon would be worth 2 2nds.

I still don't like just getting a 2nd back but it is what it is. Moving on from that now ..

 

[Shinjuku Calling]

he's a team last guy. Passes blame to his teammates whenever possible.

 

[Gniwder]

Yep. We sure did .. ha ha.

Oh well. I want to be mad at Francis but realistically Vanecek was the best pick for us from the Caps. Nobody knew Grubauer would NOT re-sign with the Avs and that we could snag him. Neither did anyone know that Dillon would be worth 2 2nds.

I still don't like just getting a 2nd back but it is what it is. Moving on from that now ..

Hey it was below even my projection by a 4th. Doesn't seem like Francis even bothered to wait for more bids.

I don't have an issue with the pick, it was the right pick before Grubbie hit free agency. Sure Dillon returned more, but I think Francis went with a positional need and signed a free agent that he believes is an upgrade. Being familiar with both Caps goalies, Grubauer is definitely an upgrade. Worth $5M more? I dunno.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

Hey it was below even my projection by a 4th. Doesn't seem like Francis even bothered to wait for more bids.

I don't have an issue with the pick, it was the right pick before Grubbie hit free agency. Sure Dillon returned more, but I think Francis went with a positional need and signed a free agent that he believes is an upgrade. Being familiar with both Caps goalies, Grubauer is definitely an upgrade. Worth $5M more? I dunno.

I think goalies are the hardest players to project anyway. Team D plays a biggest roles in goalie stats and sometimes makes average goalies look great or make good goalies look bad.

 

[BeniersIsKraken]

With Hakstol, the current composition of our forwards and our defense corps, we should be making our goalies look pretty good next season (on paper at least).

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

With Hakstol, the current composition of our forwards and our defense corps, we should be making our goalies look pretty good next season (on paper at least).

That is what I am hoping too. Not likely we get that much scoring.

 

[kihei]

What I like most about this signing is that it rules out tanking as an option. You don't sign a goalie of this quality for term if all you want to do is chase a high draft pick by losing.

 

[skagittarius]

With Hakstol, the current composition of our forwards and our defense corps, we should be making our goalies look pretty good next season (on paper at least).

With Hakstol and this roster I think we can expect a lot of close and overtime games. I hope that's factored into the analytics.

 

[klozge]

I'm not exactly a Grubi fan, so personally I hate this signing, but he's a pretty good goalie who can have great games.

 

[BeniersIsKraken]

I'm not exactly a Grubi fan, so personally I hate this signing, but he's a pretty good goalie who can have great games.

Be curious to know why you're not a fan given the second part of your statement.

 

[Gniwder]

Be curious to know why you're not a fan given the second part of your statement.

Probably because fans (and sometimes even GMs) typically blame playoff loses on the goalie.

I didn't watch that series, so I can't evaluate Grubauer's performance against LGVK.

 

[gstommylee]

Probably because fans (and sometimes even GMs) typically blame playoff loses on the goalie.

I didn't watch that series, so I can't evaluate Grubauer's performance against LGVK.

It wasn't Grubby's fault that they lost 4 straight after going up 2-0 in the series. Colorado plays the transition game very good if you interrupt that kind of playing then Colorado isn't as great.

 

[BeniersIsKraken]

Probably because fans (and sometimes even GMs) typically blame playoff loses on the goalie.

I didn't watch that series, so I can't evaluate Grubauer's performance against LGVK.

Just weird to say you hate signing a good player that can be great. Guess it would have made more sense to me if they hated the signing because they weren't as good as the team in front of them was. I usually only hate good players when they're not on my team lol.

 

[Gniwder]

Just weird to say you hate signing a good player that can be great. Guess it would have made more sense to me if they hated the signing because they weren't as good as the team in front of them was. I usually only hate good players when they're not on my team lol.

A lot of casual fans are under the misconception that a goalie is supposed to stop everything, even back door plays and breakaways. I don't know what happened in the series, and I'm not gonna go watch it.

I'm familiar with Grubauer because he was the Caps backup. I though the team should've traded Holtby instead of Grubauer. Of course, everyone laughed at me for that because Holtby had just won the Cup.... but look at where they're both at now.