Confirmed with Link: Kraken sign Grubauer (5.9M x 6)

Gurglesons

Registered User
Dec 18, 2009
92,014
74,272
San Diego, CA
last-train-tocool.blogspot.com
You are literally going out of your way to create a controversy that doesn't exist in order to support a flawed argument that you are peddling to stir up controversy.

Their cap situation for the foreseeable future is actually quite good.

Look. After 2 years the team only has 42 million committed cap. After 3 it is only 28. And after 4 years, they have less than 16 million, and Schwartz and Oleksiak will be off the books at the end of that year(5 years, not 6). Cap should start to rise again by then giving the team a ton of flexibility. Their first prospects should just be coming off of their ELCs at that point.

I'm not trying to create any controversy. All I am saying is the team stated they wanted cap space then proceeded to throw away that space on Wennberg, Grubs, and Schwartz. Good players, but none of them IMO are worth the commitments given and I think there is a reason you saw teams that are all pretty smart in St. Louis, Colorado, and Florida walk away from them.


Yes, Schwartz and Oleksiak are overpaid and their deals are too long, but it isn't like they are getting 8x9 or 8x11. Their contracts are not that large, they are only overpaid by 1.5 million, they are insured, and if either player is injured, the team should have LTIR slots. Francis targeted them and overpaid because he wants to create a culture, and those guys are good locker room guys, good community guys, and will lead by example with their strong work ethic.

Okay.


In the league today, no teams have free cap. If they do, they are on internal budgets because all of the franchises are hemorrhaging cash. Half the players in the league that have signed UFA contracts would pass through waivers right now. Some guys that are exactly worth their contract value would pass through, so your scenario is completely misleading and out of context.

But, the Kraken didn't have to make these signings. They could've kept their cap space, taken less term, easily traceable assets and come out on top. As I said Ghost is a similar player to Oleksiak and Zucker is a similar player to Schwartz both making less or similar coin on less term deals.

As far as your plan, you are living in 2017. You believe Francis could have picked up players and easily flipped them in today's cap which is false. Francis asked for 1st round picks to take on cap. Other GM's scoffed. Not taking on the bad contracts for 2nds in this weak draft was the best move Seattle could have made to position themselves to build a competitor. Had he taken some of those contracts, Seattle would be at the cap this year and next, if not longer, have no flexibility for free agents, and would have declining players that are underperforming and probably would not want to be in Seattle, creating a toxic locker-room.

Seems like a lot of projection. Dillon was moved for 2 picks. He was available for Seattle to take. Is Winnipeg not worried about his locker-room fit? Ghost was traded to Arizona with a 2nd attached. He was available for Seattle to take. Do you think Philly just decided to pay a 2nd after the ED to get rid of him because they weren't offering the same to Seattle? Do you think Ghost would prefer to play in Arizona over Seattle?

How has Seattle positioned themselves to build a competitor exactly?

Vanecek WAS the smart move. Had Colorado not failed to sign Grubauer, Vanecek would be the back up and insurance for Driedger who has never handled a starters workload. Dillon is not worth 2 2nds. Chevy overpaid. But that is totally irrelevant, because Seattle wanted Vanecek until Grubauer became an option. All of your arguments are unrealistic because they assume Francis could know the future and ignore the reality of the situations as they transpired.

Francis and team had a year to plan for these situations. You don't think Francis talked to other GMs about the value of Dillon? You don't think he entertained the thought of what Ghost would come to him for?

What has been reported is Francis asked for too much. He then said "cap space is important" and proceeded to give out five UFA contracts that while not the worst thing in the world are nowhere near shrewd moves. What is important about cap space if you just give it away?

I guess the concept is that a trade could open up and Seattle is an easy solution for that. But what trade is going to open up? Is the player going to better than what was available in the ED if cap space is the issue?

I get it, you're angry. Pittsburgh didn't lose just one, but two of their top bottom six players and in return got a prospect that has a better than average chance of never being a regular NHLer in return. They are the present day version of the Panthers/Ducks/Wild of 2017. They gave up a really good player with the hopes Seattle would relieve them of a bad contract they are desperately trying to shed, and instead, lost another solid asset and didn't even get much cap relief in the process. It sucks, but don't blame Francis.

I love McCann. I hope he works out for you guys. I don't really see where he fits in the roster though with the signing of Wennberg.

Tanev's contract was hideous and I was absolutely stoked we got out of it. The fact we got Hallander for McCann and McGinn for 2.75 x 4 versus Tanev at 3.5 x 4 is amazing.

I'm based on the West Coast. I root for all the teams out here because I'm a fan of the game. I was planning on rooting for the Kraken. I still will. I just really have no clue what their plan is and that is the only point I'm trying to make.

# 1. They didn't take advantage of the ED.

# 2. They didn't leverage their cap space as of yet.

# 3. They used a good portion of said cap space on a bunch of 29 year old players that they over paid.

This isn't the path I saw them taking especially with the reports that they were such a forward thinking club. To be honest, it looks exactly like something a disciple of Jimmy Rutherford would do. Hope shit sticks and maybe it'll work out. I do think the Kraken have a decent enough team in the Pacific to make the playoffs. As we know anything can happen there.
 

Gurglesons

Registered User
Dec 18, 2009
92,014
74,272
San Diego, CA
last-train-tocool.blogspot.com
Wut? Similar only in cap hit, Oleksiak could eat Ghost for lunch and shit him out before dinner. Totally different players.

Also, I don't think Hakstol wanted any players that played for him in the past. Clean start... hence no JVR or Stecher.

That's a good point.

I'm vvvvvvvery curious to see Oleksiak without his safety blanket in Seattle. I think that contract is going to be a f***ing disaster. I know the public analytics models love him, but that contract is frightening. I actually really liked Oleksiak for PIT when we had him and was pissed we # 1. Tried to make him a big tough D and # 2. Gave up on him because he lost a fight.

Honestly, I've lost a lot of faith in public models over the past couple years.
 

Irie

Registered User
Nov 14, 2010
4,441
4,255
Pacific Northwest
I'm not trying to create any controversy. All I am saying is the team stated they wanted cap space then proceeded to throw away that space on Wennberg, Grubs, and Schwartz. Good players, but none of them IMO are worth the commitments given and I think there is a reason you saw teams that are all pretty smart in St. Louis, Colorado, and Florida walk away from them.




Okay.




But, the Kraken didn't have to make these signings. They could've kept their cap space, taken less term, easily traceable assets and come out on top. As I said Ghost is a similar player to Oleksiak and Zucker is a similar player to Schwartz both making less or similar coin on less term deals.



Seems like a lot of projection. Dillon was moved for 2 picks. He was available for Seattle to take. Is Winnipeg not worried about his locker-room fit? Ghost was traded to Arizona with a 2nd attached. He was available for Seattle to take. Do you think Philly just decided to pay a 2nd after the ED to get rid of him because they weren't offering the same to Seattle? Do you think Ghost would prefer to play in Arizona over Seattle?

How has Seattle positioned themselves to build a competitor exactly?



Francis and team had a year to plan for these situations. You don't think Francis talked to other GMs about the value of Dillon? You don't think he entertained the thought of what Ghost would come to him for?

What has been reported is Francis asked for too much. He then said "cap space is important" and proceeded to give out five UFA contracts that while not the worst thing in the world are nowhere near shrewd moves. What is important about cap space if you just give it away?

I guess the concept is that a trade could open up and Seattle is an easy solution for that. But what trade is going to open up? Is the player going to better than what was available in the ED if cap space is the issue?



I love McCann. I hope he works out for you guys. I don't really see where he fits in the roster though with the signing of Wennberg.

Tanev's contract was hideous and I was absolutely stoked we got out of it. The fact we got Hallander for McCann and McGinn for 2.75 x 4 versus Tanev at 3.5 x 4 is amazing.

I'm based on the West Coast. I root for all the teams out here because I'm a fan of the game. I was planning on rooting for the Kraken. I still will. I just really have no clue what their plan is and that is the only point I'm trying to make.

# 1. They didn't take advantage of the ED.

# 2. They didn't leverage their cap space as of yet.

# 3. They used a good portion of said cap space on a bunch of 29 year old players that they over paid.

This isn't the path I saw them taking especially with the reports that they were such a forward thinking club. To be honest, it looks exactly like something a disciple of Jimmy Rutherford would do. Hope shit sticks and maybe it'll work out. I do think the Kraken have a decent enough team in the Pacific to make the playoffs. As we know anything can happen there.
1. There is a cap floor. Seattle would not reach it without adding a few higher salaried guys. None of these contracts are going to be an issue.

They only have six players signed for more than 3 years, and their combined cap is 28 million.

They only have 3 players signed more than 4 years, and that cap hit is only 14 million.

How is that not cap flexible?

2. Wennberg is a strong two way center that was very promising offensively before the concussions. After that his game changed and Torts moved him to the third and fourth lines and cut his ice time. He showed a re-emergence of skill last year in Florida. If he continues on that pace, 4 million for a center that kills penalties and plays a responsible game will be a bargain. If he doesn't and he is just a defensive specialist, he is 1.5 million over-paid and only signed for 3 years.

3. Oleksiak has been trending up the past two years. Gostisbehere has been trending down since his injury and loss of mobility. And as I stated, the Oleksiak signing is more about creating a culture than it is about on-ice performance. Schwartz too. They targeted these guys to develop an environment and professionalism off the ice. Every draft pick and signing fits a certain character model. Schwartz and Oleksiak fit this mold. Zucker and Ghost do not.

4. Not sure how many times it can be said without you understanding. Vanecek was the right choice at the time.

If Grubauer had not signed in Seattle, Francis would be quite happy with the Vanecek pick.

5. This cap is different. Other than taking on really bad contracts for draft capital, which was extremely ho-hum for this draft, there was not an environment to stockpile picks by trading expansion draft players the way Vegas did. There weren't the deals Vegas had of teams offering picks to stay clear of players. Teams positioned themselves to limit their exposed players. Most teams weren't too upset losing who they lost. Some teams exposed core pieces to hopefully get cap space. It is a different world.
 

Gurglesons

Registered User
Dec 18, 2009
92,014
74,272
San Diego, CA
last-train-tocool.blogspot.com
1. There is a cap floor. Seattle would not reach it without adding a few higher salaried guys. None of these contracts are going to be an issue.

They only have six players signed for more than 3 years, and their combined cap is 28 million.

They only have 3 players signed more than 4 years, and that cap hit is only 14 million.

How is that not cap flexible?

2. Wennberg is a strong two way center that was very promising offensively before the concussions. After that his game changed and Torts moved him to the third and fourth lines and cut his ice time. He showed a re-emergence of skill last year in Florida. If he continues on that pace, 4 million for a center that kills penalties and plays a responsible game will be a bargain. If he doesn't and he is just a defensive specialist, he is 1.5 million over-paid and only signed for 3 years.

3. Oleksiak has been trending up the past two years. Gostisbehere has been trending down since his injury and loss of mobility. And as I stated, the Oleksiak signing is more about creating a culture than it is about on-ice performance. Schwartz too. They targeted these guys to develop an environment and professionalism off the ice. Every draft pick and signing fits a certain character model. Schwartz and Oleksiak fit this mold. Zucker and Ghost do not.

4. Not sure how many times it can be said without you understanding. Vanecek was the right choice at the time.

If Grubauer had not signed in Seattle, Francis would be quite happy with the Vanecek pick.

5. This cap is different. Other than taking on really bad contracts for draft capital, which was extremely ho-hum for this draft, there was not an environment to stockpile picks by trading expansion draft players the way Vegas did. There weren't the deals Vegas had of teams offering picks to stay clear of players. Teams positioned themselves to limit their exposed players. Most teams weren't too upset losing who they lost. Some teams exposed core pieces to hopefully get cap space. It is a different world.

This is just blatantly false. Zucker is one of the best community outreach players in the league.

As far as Wennberg being a defensive specialist. I’m not sure you’ve watched him play. He’s not very good defensively. He’s been terrible offensively for years aside from last year when he played next to one of the top five LWs in the game.

Ghost was just the best defenseman on Philly last year.

Oleksiak trended upwards the last two years because he spent every waking minute with Heiskanen on the ice with him.

As far as the rest we are just locking horns here. I’ll step out.
 

Irie

Registered User
Nov 14, 2010
4,441
4,255
Pacific Northwest
This is just blatantly false. Zucker is one of the best community outreach players in the league.

As far as Wennberg being a defensive specialist. I’m not sure you’ve watched him play. He’s not very good defensively. He’s been terrible offensively for years aside from last year when he played next to one of the top five LWs in the game.

Ghost was just the best defenseman on Philly last year.

Oleksiak trended upwards the last two years because he spent every waking minute with Heiskanen on the ice with him.

As far as the rest we are just locking horns here. I’ll step out.
I am not questioning Zucker's charity work, and I understand that he was a wonderful community supporter in Minnesota, but from all indications, he is not a first to the rink, last to leave, extra effort locker-room guy the others are. There is a difference.

Wennberg was a top penalty killer for Tortorella. He's not a Selke candidate, but he is good shorthanded and solid defensively when put in that role 5 on 5. I don't really know how you can say he is weak defensively. The two previous years after his concussions, his icetime was down 20% and he was playing on the third line in Columbus. his offensive issues are no secret, but there is talent there. He changed his style after the concussions. Last year he played closer to the way he did in his productive years. Signing him is a gamble. but we've already been over this.

Ghost was the most consistent down the stretch after the wheels came off of the entire team, but he was not really the reason the team started so strong out of the gate. He is a far cry from what he was 4 years ago. After his surgery, his skating is just not the same. And they are quite different players. Look at Seattle's D. I'd much rather have Oleksiak going forward given the mix they have, as I think he will be a better fit. And he signed with Seattle, indicating he's happy to be part of the expansion.

Sometimes I appreciate you playing Devil's advocate in a lot of the thread's on the trade board, but you pushing the narrative that Seattle's moves are problematic for their ability to remain cap flexible is misguided in my opinion. I mean, you are obviously welcome to have and share your opinion, but i believe your insistence that the few contracts they signed are going to be a big issue will not come to fruition.
 
Last edited:

Gniwder

Registered User
Oct 12, 2009
14,301
7,627
Bellingham, WA
Ghost was just the best defenseman on Philly last year.

Oleksiak trended upwards the last two years because he spent every waking minute with Heiskanen on the ice with him.
Ghost cleared waivers dude. I'm not sure why you want Francis to get a player that no other GM wanted.... unless the 2nd and 7th round picks are that important to you. 2nd round picks have less than 50% chance of even becoming an NHLer.
 

The Kingslayer

Registered User
Aug 26, 2004
76,650
56,652
Siem Reap, Cambodia
It wasn't Grubby's fault that they lost 4 straight after going up 2-0 in the series. Colorado plays the transition game very good if you interrupt that kind of playing then Colorado isn't as great.
It was definitely his fault in Games 5 and 6. Grubauer was great almost god like in Games 2 and for 2 periods in Game 3 and then shit the bed the rest of the way. Solid goalie but not the type you are going to advance far in the playoffs with.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Lemonlimey

gstommylee

Registered User
Jan 31, 2012
14,482
2,782
8u05bnhedki71.png


Grubby is in town
 

GrungeHockey

Registered User
Sep 14, 2021
506
336
New member diving into an old thread but just want to say what they have done is the correct way to build a hockey team. You start with the goalie (goalies) and build out from there, not with the flashy forwards and goal scorers and then have a sieve for a D. Team is solid in net for years to come now. Will win close games they shouldn't at times. Very smart team building.
Now you create and identity and team first attitude, create a close knit locker room and become a team that is hard to play against. The rest will come over time. I like what this team is doing.
 

gstommylee

Registered User
Jan 31, 2012
14,482
2,782
I can see Seattle trading one of Grubauer or Driedger depending on who the best bet amongst the two is.

Seattle isn't trading either of them... They are going with a 1a/1b. btw they traded the goalie they took from washington back to the capitals after they signed Grubauer.
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad