Koskinen stealing the starting job?

[Stoneman89]

He should have said we have two absolute garbage goaltenders who couldn't stop a beach ball. That would have been a much better idea then trying to build them up with confidence.

The fans love what he says though.

 

[Stoneman89]

heh, lets turn the page on a new year. I've seen a couple posts you made today where we seem to be in agreement. Either you, or I, are out to lunch or we're both onto the obvious. Or that we're not discussing the Eskimos.

Agreed.

 

[lucicwaivers]

Oilers are supposed to be improving defense with Petrovic someone who is not even on the starting roster of another team??? Fire the GM and Lowe tonight before any more of our assets are downgraded please! The defense and forwards looked like the problem. (except for mcdavid, nuge and drai of course).
Koskinen played decently, he made it competitive, robbed Laine glove side. He made it competitive despite the Oilers letting 40+ shots go his way. There were some goals where the Oilers could not even clear the zone and it was a shooting gallery on Koskinen. Looked like old times (fire the GM, Lowe and MacT if you want to change this).
The Oilers dumped their top forwards. Didn't get a top Dman who could shoot the puck in Larsson. Signed an AHL player Lucic to 6 million.


There's a clear difference between Talbot and Koskinen. Talbot is 100x worse than koskinen so don't start him anymore - Talbots last game 7 goals on 40 shots. Koskinen 4 goals on 40 shots - quite respectable actually and it was a 1 goal game despite the Oilers getting outplayed.

Also the media and coaching staff are quick to make an excuse because Klefbom is injured. Is Winnapeg making an excuse because Byfuglien is injured? Or did they build a good team that can win?

 

[Messrules11]

3 goals on 8 shots vs last place team. I wouldn’t be so quick to get rid of Talbot

 

[oobga]

Many many goalies through NHL history that ended up having mediocre to poor careers have had hot runs that lasted 1-2 months.

Hope Koskinen can get out of his funk, but I won't hold it against him if he doesn't. You are what you are. There was no solid history to suggest he was trending to be a consistent NHL #1 after years on Putin's favorite stacked KHL team, but it was certainly worth it for him to give it a try.

 

[Stoneman89]

If he steals anything, it could be a big fat contract that they give him.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Stealing what?

Koski has been pulled in first period twice in recent games and looking worse than Talbot has ever looked. Wheres all the comments here now?

Last 6 games is just ugly. Pulled twice early, has allowed 20 goals n last 209mins in those games.

Works out to 4.45GA per game in the stretch. Save percentage is scary.

He's only had one good game in last 6 and that was against the hapless Coyotes.

Gave up 3 goals in 13min against a Kings team that only scores 2 a night. All the goals were weak.

Of course there was the Vancouver disaster, worst goaltending performance in memory, allowing 4GA in 6shots.

 

[CycloneSweep]

Stealing what?

Koski has been pulled in first period twice in recent games and looking worse than Talbot has ever looked. Wheres all the comments here now?

He has had a couple bad game but his overall set of work this season is still much better than Talbot's.

 

[oil4life97]

Talbot pushing back. Great to see. This will be fun to watch these 2 down the stretch competing for ice time.

 

[GMofOilers]

Stealing what?

Koski has been pulled in first period twice in recent games and looking worse than Talbot has ever looked. Wheres all the comments here now?

Last 6 games is just ugly. Pulled twice early, has allowed 20 goals n last 209mins in those games.

Works out to 4.45GA per game in the stretch. Save percentage is scary.

He's only had one good game in last 6 and that was against the hapless Coyotes.

Gave up 3 goals in 13min against a Kings team that only scores 2 a night. All the goals were weak.

Of course there was the Vancouver disaster, worst goaltending performance in memory, allowing 4GA in 6shots.

Wow you been waiting a long time to post that. 41 games to be exact.

Talbots best game in 2 years.

Talbots still rocking a save % below 900, GAA above 3, a losing record.

Without Koski right now we are dead last in the league.

 

[elmeroil]

Stealing what?

Koski has been pulled in first period twice in recent games and looking worse than Talbot has ever looked. Wheres all the comments here now?

Last 6 games is just ugly. Pulled twice early, has allowed 20 goals n last 209mins in those games.

Works out to 4.45GA per game in the stretch. Save percentage is scary.

He's only had one good game in last 6 and that was against the hapless Coyotes.

Gave up 3 goals in 13min against a Kings team that only scores 2 a night. All the goals were weak.

Of course there was the Vancouver disaster, worst goaltending performance in memory, allowing 4GA in 6shots.

Haha really? Talbot has one good game against a team that hasn't won since Dec 13 and you bust out the stealing what line? As I've said before, they need both goalies to play well but now you are coming across as a guy that wants Koskinen to fail. Brutal.

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

Stealing what?

Koski has been pulled in first period twice in recent games and looking worse than Talbot has ever looked. Wheres all the comments here now?

Last 6 games is just ugly. Pulled twice early, has allowed 20 goals n last 209mins in those games.

Works out to 4.45GA per game in the stretch. Save percentage is scary.

He's only had one good game in last 6 and that was against the hapless Coyotes.

Gave up 3 goals in 13min against a Kings team that only scores 2 a night. All the goals were weak.

Of course there was the Vancouver disaster, worst goaltending performance in memory, allowing 4GA in 6shots.

Lol talbot almost sunk our season with garbage goaltending until Koskinen stepped in.

 

[CycloneSweep]

Haha really? Talbot has one good game against a team that hasn't won since Dec 13 and you bust out the stealing what line? As I've said before, they need both goalies to play well but now you are coming across as a guy that wants Koskinen to fail. Brutal.

It's cause he hated him from the start and waits for any chance to look like he was right.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Haha really? Talbot has one good game against a team that hasn't won since Dec 13 and you bust out the stealing what line? As I've said before, they need both goalies to play well but now you are coming across as a guy that wants Koskinen to fail. Brutal.

No, actually I'm INTENTIONALLY countering the brutal dismissal of Talbot as useless, lousy, a bum, etc which goes on everytime here every day. Its annoying when a favorite player gets critiqued isn't it? The point of last nights post is some giving back on that. Part of the tug of war in play that goes on here.

Obviously I would want both goalies to succeed. But it sickened me how quickly people were prepared to throw the best goalie we've had since Roloson on the rubbish heap.

Talbot, again, is the only goalie to bring this club into the playoffs in a dozen years and he played around 85 games that season. More if you want to count exhibition. He had the highest workload of any goalie in the league and was among a handful of the best goalies in the league that season. I find it odd that people figured that goalie just lost all his ability as if its never coming back.

Talbot is a good goalie and in form better than Koski ever has been. Koski has the huge benefit of size, pun intended.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Lol talbot almost sunk our season with garbage goaltending until Koskinen stepped in.

Chia sunk our season if we don't make the playoffs. You can't examine everything in isolation. One of the reasons ANY goalie would struggle here is we have no depth scoring, no D scoring, no run support. Its a whole lot harder being a goalie when you're thinking you have to stop every puck. You burn out fast doing that and its easy to get off your form.

Similarly in baseball its obviously easier to pitch for a team that offers a lot of run support. Talbot is impacted by the dynamic as anybody is. Koski is already feeling that and he's only played 20 NHl games.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Wow you been waiting a long time to post that. 41 games to be exact.

Talbots best game in 2 years.

Talbots still rocking a save % below 900, GAA above 3, a losing record.

Without Koski right now we are dead last in the league.

Maybe you missed the obvious. Talbot wasn't good last night, he was spectacular. IF He was done as a goalie as you've suggested and the "team can't win with him" etc as you've posted in thousands of posts (the only topic you engage in) then how come Talbot can play a PERFECT game last night? Had countless great saves in there too. Unlike a couple of Koski's this was no easy shutout.

The great irony is you calling me out for timing posts regarding goalies. You've spent your entire time here doing just that if we're keeping score.

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

Talbot has his first shutout in over a year and Drivesaitl loses his mind.

 

[GMofOilers]

Maybe you missed the obvious. Talbot wasn't good last night, he was spectacular. IF He was done as a goalie as you've suggested and the "team can't win with him" etc as you've posted in thousands of posts (the only topic you engage in) then how come Talbot can play a PERFECT game last night? Had countless great saves in there too. Unlike a couple of Koski's this was no easy shutout.

The great irony is you calling me out for timing posts regarding goalies. You've spent your entire time here doing just that if we're keeping score.

He played awesome last night. Like you said, played the perfect game. Been over a year since we seen that, I wasnt actually sure we were ever going to see that again.

My argument the whole time has been we dont need perfect we just need average.

Average like Koskis stats right now gives us the record he has, above average gives us the record he had before the slump.

Below average goaltending gives us the record Talbot has currently.

Its not hard to figure out really.

 

[Drivesaitl]

He played awesome last night. Like you said, played the perfect game. Been over a year since we seen that, I wasnt actually sure we were ever going to see that again.

My argument the whole time has been we dont need perfect we just need average.

Average like Koskis stats right now gives us the record he has, above average gives us the record he had before the slump.

Below average goaltending gives us the record Talbot has currently.

Its not hard to figure out really.

meh. I evaluate goalies on technique, form, quickness, speed moving across etc. I'm a bit of a purist too when it comes to goaltending and prefer infallible form. The only goalie here I've seen in modern times that could get by without the best form was Cujo. But he had decent form and spectacular reflexes and could make reaction saves that blow anybodies mind.

Talbot as a goalie, when on his game demonstrates good to excellent form. He has all the technique, ability, his tracking and moves across last night were excellent. He still has it. It didn't go away. Talbots weakness is reaction stops but if shooters are boxed out and less screens occur he does well.

Koski is far less a form goalie. He isn't even that adept at moving across quickly. For instance on the Toffoli goal he demonstrates his substandard dive at the puck. He can't move across quick enough to track that play so he relies on desperation. Often he relies on two pads on the ice and shooters hitting nothing but pad. Koski exhibits a lot of big goalie textbook problems. Due to their size and weight they have trouble moving whole body quickly and have not had to learn excellent form in the first place because they are reliant on size.

Heres an example where form trumps all. High jump. Soon as Dick Fosbury developed the Fosbury flop he transformed the sport. It didn't matter how strong or good straddlers were, or if they still won some of the meets. The Fosbury flop practitioners were going to win out. The straddle was dead, only a matter of time. So what you might say, that's an entirely different sport and endeavor.

Well Tretiak revolutionised goaltending with his use of the butterfly technique. NA goalies looked like amateurs compared to Tretiak. Put Tretiak on a Team Canada and they would never lose. Ken Dryden, the best goalie in the NHL, in NA was made to look like a fool by the Russians. They schooled him.

My critique of Koski is always related to concerns with his form. As long as shooters were stuffing pucks right at him he looks great. But when the scouting report is beat him high, or move across on him its less clear what we have. You never know if a goalie is great early. It takes longer evaluation. Many goalies have a first wave of success. its how they survive the NHL once their technique is scouted that spell the longterm prognosis.

Anyway you can dismiss this if you want but I think I substantiate my position.

We need more results.

I hope Koski can adapt to how goal scorers are currently solving him.

 

[GOilers88]

No, actually I'm INTENTIONALLY countering the brutal dismissal of Talbot as useless, lousy, a bum, etc which goes on everytime here every day. Its annoying when a favorite player gets critiqued isn't it? The point of last nights post is some giving back on that. Part of the tug of war in play that goes on here.

Obviously I would want both goalies to succeed. But it sickened me how quickly people were prepared to throw the best goalie we've had since Roloson on the rubbish heap.

Talbot, again, is the only goalie to bring this club into the playoffs in a dozen years and he played around 85 games that season. More if you want to count exhibition. He had the highest workload of any goalie in the league and was among a handful of the best goalies in the league that season. I find it odd that people figured that goalie just lost all his ability as if its never coming back.

Talbot is a good goalie and in form better than Koski ever has been. Koski has the huge benefit of size, pun intended.

I agree with you that everyone around here does what they always do, and that's to pile on and try to run a guy out of town without any sort of thought to what happens when he's gone. It's cool though, Al Montoya would have been a fine Talbot replacement, right?

But as much as I've liked Talbot, his history shows one monstrous season in which every little thing that could possibly go right for a team did. Aside from that, he's been a pretty paltry, inconsistent guy that's been asked to be way more than he is. Most of the team suffers the same fate.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I agree with you that everyone around here does what they always do, and that's to pile on and try to run a guy out of town without any sort of thought to what happens when he's gone. It's cool though, Al Montoya would have been a fine Talbot replacement, right?

But as much as I've liked Talbot, his history shows one monstrous season in which every little thing that could possibly go right for a team did. Aside from that, he's been a pretty paltry, inconsistent guy that's been asked to be way more than he is. Most of the team suffers the same fate.

Not really the case.

Talbots career save % is .917

Jonathon Quick career is .916

Quick was at one time considered the best in the business and he's played the majority of his career on a premium club that is disciplined, that box out, play 5 man D, keep chances limited. Even on that team, Quick is not better than Talbot in save %.

Where Quick is better is that he has mind numbing periods where he can look like god in net. But he has as many games (increasingly) where he has bozo plays. Mostly when he's trying to milk a call while a scoring chance is going on. He even did this in the last game. He's there on one side trying to shake his mask off while the Oilers have a 5 bell scoring chance. He does this commonly. He assumes the play will stop. When it doesn't happen for him it looks pretty stupid.

I could conversely state that outside of one season last year Talbot had pretty good stats. Still lots of time in this one to get his stats back on track. What didn't help much is him being hung out to dry on the 7 goal game. Who ever played that game was going to get pelted as the team gave up. If he gets pulled, like Koski has twice then its only 2-3GA that game. Not 7. A cynical side is the Oilers might even have done that to keep the contract negotiation on more reasonable terms. Wouldn't be the first time a team has done that to their goalie(s)

 

[GOilers88]

Not really the case.

Talbots career save % is .917

Jonathon Quick career is .916

Quick was at one time considered the best in the business and he's played the majority of his career on a premium club that is disciplined, that box out, play 5 man D, keep chances limited. Even on that team, Quick is not better than Talbot in save %.

Where Quick is better is that he has mind numbing periods where he can look like god in net. But he has as many games (increasingly) where he has bozo plays. Mostly when he's trying to milk a call while a scoring chance is going on. He even did this in the last game. He's there on one side trying to shake his mask off while the Oilers have a 5 bell scoring chance. He does this commonly. He assumes the play will stop. When it doesn't happen for him it looks pretty stupid.

I could conversely state that outside of one season last year Talbot had pretty good stats. Still lots of time in this one to get his stats back on track. What didn't help much is him being hung out to dry on the 7 goal game. Who ever played that game was going to get pelted as the team gave up.

Yeah but comparing a guy that has been a starter for almost ten years to a guy who has been doing it for 3? Quick has faced far more rubber than Talbot has, as Talbs had a pretty gravy train behind Hank for years.

 

[GMofOilers]

meh. I evaluate goalies on technique, form, quickness, speed moving across etc. I'm a bit of a purist too when it comes to goaltending and prefer infallible form. The only goalie here I've seen in modern times that could get by without the best form was Cujo. But he had decent form and spectacular reflexes and could make reaction saves that blow anybodies mind.

Talbot as a goalie, when on his game demonstrates good to excellent form. He has all the technique, ability, his tracking and moves across last night were excellent. He still has it. It didn't go away. Talbots weakness is reaction stops but if shooters are boxed out and less screens occur he does well.

Koski is far less a form goalie. He isn't even that adept at moving across quickly. For instance on the Toffoli goal he demonstrates his substandard dive at the puck. He can't move across quick enough to track that play so he relies on desperation. Often he relies on two pads on the ice and shooters hitting nothing but pad. Koski exhibits a lot of big goalie textbook problems. Due to their size and weight they have trouble moving whole body quickly and have not had to learn excellent form in the first place because they are reliant on size.

Heres an example where form trumps all. High jump. Soon as Dick Fosbury developed the Fosbury flop he transformed the sport. It didn't matter how strong or good straddlers were, or if they still won some of the meets. The Fosbury flop practitioners were going to win out. The straddle was dead, only a matter of time. So what you might say, that's an entirely different sport and endeavor.

Well Tretiak revolutionised goaltending with his use of the butterfly technique. NA goalies looked like amateurs compared to Tretiak. Put Tretiak on a Team Canada and they would never lose. Ken Dryden, the best goalie in the NHL, in NA was made to look like a fool by the Russians. They schooled him.

My critique of Koski is always related to concerns with his form. As long as shooters were stuffing pucks right at him he looks great. But when the scouting report is beat him high, or move across on him its less clear what we have. You never know if a goalie is great early. It takes longer evaluation. Many goalies have a first wave of success. its how they survive the NHL once their technique is scouted that spell the longterm prognosis.

Anyway you can dismiss this if you want but I think I substantiate my position.

We need more results.

I hope Koski can adapt to how goal scorers are currently solving him.

Technique doesnt really matter to me, its make the saves or dont.

You already know my stance on Talbot, and its not changing. I have no faith in him at all.

Im actually getting concerned with Koski, but i know hes still the better option at this point in time.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Talbot has his first shutout in over a year and Drivesaitl loses his mind.

Please tell me you are not this specious. Do you judge goalies simply on amount of shutouts? does anybody?

Talbot has played lots of good games this season, and last season and it certainly hasn't "been 2years since he's been good" as another poster commonly suggests and even after he's corrected on it.

It might surprise you but look back and you see that Talbot has played around 10 good games this season. Its not like its rare. He's had 5 where he's been excellent. Needs to be more, I get that, but the thought that he's done is what I'm reacting to.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Yeah but comparing a guy that has been a starter for almost ten years to a guy who has been doing it for 3? Quick has faced far more rubber than Talbot has, as Talbs had a pretty gravy train behind Hank for years.

I dunno, I hear you, Quick is burned out, that's fair. But Quick has never had to encounter playing on a team like this that routinely allows 40SA in games and allows a Dozen premium scoring chances a game. I've seen a ton of games (Kings are my 2nd team) where Quick faced maybe 3-4 quality chances in a night and gave up 2. What I'm saying though is confirmed somewhat with the career stat. If Talbot really was very ordinary outside one year than his stats would reflect that. Overall he's been solid in his career. The thing is its not easy being a goalie here. Koski is just starting to encounter that.

Lets not forget that this club has been a goalie graveyard and with some that resurrected their career elsewhere and some that never could. But with most coming in here with promise. The Edmonton Oilers have been the "short straw" goalie assignment for a longtime. Goalies haven't necessarily wanted to come here.