Player Discussion Koskinen Re-Signed PT2

[McTonyBrar]

I hope they find a way to trade Kosco next year.

Why would anyone take that baboon of a contract?

 

[McDNicks17]

I know some people don't like the fancy stats, but I feel a bit better about Koskinen after checking them out.

Corsica has a stat called expected save percentage(xSV%). Basically they track the SH% of every shot location, so they can give you the league average SH% of the shots a goalie faced.

Corsica | Goalie Stats

Koskinen has an xSV% of 91.67 at even strength. His actual SV% is 91.32. That means he's facing a fairly difficult workload and performing at basically the league average.


Fire Schwartz into the sun, improve the team's defense and he might be passable, at least.

 

[McTonyBrar]

I disavow my any earlier statements of "defense" of Koskinen, this isn't an NHL starting goalie and this contract is a millstone before it starts. What an unimaginable ****ing mistake.

Also, fire Hitchcock so he'll stop starting him already, Stolarz needs some work and recall Starrett because he both deserves in and that's a nice positive story to end this cluster **** of season on.

The Barrie and Wilson goals this is no starting goaltender. I can't believe there are some people out there who are saying he's just fatigued. This goof had one month of good play. THAT'S ALL. Then, suddenly people rein him as the next starting goalie including our management. I remember thinking during that month that Koskinen is getting lucky. Others were saying it as well and it was proven right. His "stellar" play was a mirage

 

[McTonyBrar]

as ugly as it has been I am OK with Kosky in a 1a/1B roll. He is very inconsistent right now but he does have moments of brilliance. We messed up on the contract size and lengh (Again) but if we bring someone in to push him and he gets to put in some work this off season i don't think Goalies will be our concern next year. That of course depends on who we grab as a back up

Your kidding??? You want THIS as our starting goalie next year?? Poor Connor should wave the white flag right now and ask for a trade

 

[McTonyBrar]

In his last 5 KHL seasons his worst numbers is when he played 2/3 of the season. When he played roughly half the games his numbers have been better.

There is evidence of that. Of course not at the NHL level cause he hasn't played enough here but in his NHL career, his numbers tend to be better in that split role.

NHL >>>>>>>>> KHL.

 

[McDNicks17]

The Barrie and Wilson goals this is no starting goaltender. I can't believe there are some people out there who are saying he's just fatigued. This goof had one month of good play. THAT'S ALL. Then, suddenly people rein him as the next starting goalie including our management. I remember thinking during that month that Koskinen is getting lucky. Others were saying it as well and it was proven right. His "stellar" play was a mirage

I always enjoy the irony in these arguments.

You're sure he wasn't as good as he was during his best, but you're also sure he's as bad as he's been during his worst.

 

[CycloneSweep]

NHL >>>>>>>>> KHL.

I don't think you read anything I said.

 

[McTonyBrar]

The dropoff occurred starting in December, and has been seen since. He was not overworked, or outplayed to that point. He wasn't even a bonafide starter at that point.

This player had one good month, November, then unravelled, soon as teams started getting film on his weaknesses. Now teams are laughing at him. Did you see the AV's laughing at how easy it was to score on him last night. This is about the 10th time I've noted that.

Koski is like a cheat code, for opposition. In an instant convert a 2 goal lead to a 2 goal deficit. Did he make more than a couple stops in that 6min stretch?

And he's been pulled 7 times this year, mostly after December. He doesn't even finish some games. He's not overworked

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

I always enjoy the irony in these arguments.

You're sure he wasn't as good as he was during his best, but you're also sure he's as bad as he's been during his worst.

He's been consistently bad more than he's been consistently good. Teams are figuring him out.

 

[McTonyBrar]

I always enjoy the irony in these arguments.

You're sure he wasn't as good as he was during his best, but you're also sure he's as bad as he's been during his worst.

I'm not going to argue. All I am saying is I didn't agree with signing him as a backup last summer and during the first couple of months of play it wasn't hard to tell that he was not that great at his craft

 

[McTonyBrar]

He's been consistently bad more than he's been consistently good. Teams are figuring him out.

and laughing at him

 

[rboomercat90]

Still better than Talbots numbers this year.

They were both awful. What’s the point in bringing up Talbot now that he’s gone? Thank god the team didn’t resign him too, at least the got one thing right. It’s not like these were the only two goalies hockey goalies in the world and we had to pick one of them.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I know some people don't like the fancy stats, but I feel a bit better about Koskinen after checking them out.

Corsica has a stat called expected save percentage(xSV%). Basically they track the SH% of every shot location, so they can give you the league average SH% of the shots a goalie faced.

Corsica | Goalie Stats

Koskinen has an xSV% of 91.67 at even strength. His actual SV% is 91.32. That means he's facing a fairly difficult workload and performing at basically the league average.


Fire Schwartz into the sun, improve the team's defense and he might be passable, at least.

Sounds like another specious stat. In anycase Koskinen isn't facing 2/4 of the most prolific players in the league. In games he's not seeing those players, ever, and they would own him like a mule for fun.

Theres so much that wouldn't be encompassed in the above stat. For instance goalies that have trouble covering and getting on a loose puck, goalies that give up chronic bad rebounds, goalies that do little to suppress shots.. (Goalies that are really good often cause opponents to pass off shots while they are looking for a perfect shot. ) Teams facing Koski know they don't need any perfect shot. Fire from anywhere.

The Corsica stat would also not ascertain anything about where Koski's performance is trending, and declining, i.e., since November.

In anycase needing to look at a selective stat to reframe one's opinion on a goalie is its own distortion. WATCHING the games gives a different impression of Koski's ability and performance.

probably a person shouldn't feel too good about Koski performance even looking at Corsica Stats. If you are you might be swayed by selective information. Use of stats should corroborate what one see's or evaluates from viewed sample. It shouldn't be a convenient alternative reality...

 

[McDNicks17]

Sounds like another specious stat. In anycase Koskinen isn't facing 2/4 of the most prolific players in the league. In games he's not seeing those players, ever, and they would own him like a mule for fun.

Theres so much that wouldn't be encompassed in the above stat. For instance goalies that have trouble covering and getting on a loose puck, goalies that give up chronic bad rebounds, goalies that do little to suppress shots.. (Goalies that are really good often cause opponents to pass off shots while they are looking for a perfect shot. ) Teams facing Koski know they don't need any perfect shot. Fire from anywhere.

The Corsica stat would also not ascertain anything about where Koski's performance is trending, and declining, i.e., since November.

In anycase needing to look at a selective stat to reframe one's opinion on a goalie is its own distortion. WATCHING the games gives a different impression of Koski's ability and performance.

probably a person shouldn't feel too good about Koski performance even looking at Corsica Stats. If you are you might be swayed by selective information. Use of stats should corroborate what one see's or evaluates from viewed sample. It shouldn't be a convenient alternative reality...

Who's to say your eye test isn't the distorted side?

 

[Drivesaitl]

Who's to say your eye test isn't the distorted side?

I'm not just using the eye test though. All his stats are bad, his splits are clearly painting a down trend. I'm not the one that is having my impression altered by a specious stat either. I don't know why you would. Unless you simply want to feel better, even through such specious means as one Corsica stat.

Hey whatever helps..

I'll defer to the reality, amply conveyed, that Koski is not a valid NHL starter, he is overpaid for what he is, at best a backup or a co-goalie., and that we are stuck with this contract now. Even if its more difficult to realize that.

ps I'm reasonably sure that NHL shooters, scouts, coaches, that have basically stated "shoot high" and told their teams to do that against Koskinen, and that have succeeded on that basis in exploiting him like a rented mule, increasingly, do not have a distorted view. They have a clearly scouted view. I would defer to that as well.

The results of that shooting high, that Koski allows significantly more glove high shots than NHL goalies on average do, is also revealing. Corroborating even.

 

[McDNicks17]

I'm not just using the eye test though. All his stats are bad, his splits are clearly painting a down trend. I'm not the one that is having my impression altered by a specious stat either. I don't know why you would. Unless you simply want to feel better, even through such specious means as one Corsica stat.

Hey whatever helps..

I'll defer to the reality, amply conveyed, that Koski is not a valid NHL starter, he is overpaid for what he is, at best a backup or a co-goalie., and that we are stuck with this contract now. Even if its more difficult to realize that.

ps I'm reasonably sure that NHL shooters, scouts, coaches, that have basically stated "shoot high" and told their teams to do that against Koskinen, and that have succeeded on that basis in exploiting him like a rented mule, increasingly, do not have a distorted view. They have a clearly scouted view. I would defer to that as well.

The stat really isn't all that specious. It says he's a below average NHL goalie on a horrible defensive team with an even worse penalty kill. Do you disagree with that?


I also think the Schwartz-factor shouldn't be ignored. The more time goalies spend with him, the worse they get. Like I said in my last post, firing him into the sun should be the first step in possibly salvaging a passable goalie out of Koski.

 

[Drivesaitl]

The stat really isn't all that specious. It says he's a below average NHL goalie on a horrible defensive team with an even worse penalty kill. Do you disagree with that?


I also think the Schwartz-factor shouldn't be ignored. The more time goalies spend with him, the worse they get. Like I said in my last post, firing him into the sun should be the first step in possibly salvaging a passable goalie out of Koski.

Below average goalie on a below average defensive team. The Oilers rank significantly lower than league average GA. Sure, Chicken or Egg, around we go. When this team breaks down they aren't being saved from themselves very often.

The Schwartz angle is a bit contrived. Its something we hope for as fans, that its the primary fault, not the goalies. But to engage in that fault finding is summary speculation. Koskinen is the actual goalie in question. His performance decline is just as easily explained by the opponents that have explained in words that there intent is to shoot high, and even shoot high glove hand, and are being amply rewarded for that.

I'm not ignoring factors but I see this goalies clumsy and subpar mechanics, form, subpar fundamentals most every game. A goalie coach can only do so much. Koskinen will be quite a work project. If you believe Schwarz is the problem then more work with him is going to result in more difficulty. So that even if you defer fault, we still have the problem. Unless you believe the longstanding goalie coach is the main problem and that he's getting fired next week. To me he's not the cause of Koskinens play deficits that I noted starting early in the season.

 

[guymez]

I agree, when a guy is this bad with any high shots your team has no chance. None. 3 years with this guy means 3 years of no playoffs

I havent given up on him completely...I would just say that he is still enough of a question mark that I would want a known quantity on the team next season.

 

[missinthejets]

The fact that you can beat Koskinen cleanly just by going high so often is a huge liability in net. You watch teams play against him, they know where the weak spot is and they're all looking for it, to much success. Guy can make saves there is no question about that, but when you have a massive weak spot like he does you are worth nothing in the NHL. He's either gotta fix that glove hand or he'll keep getting lit up.

 

[guymez]

I know some people don't like the fancy stats, but I feel a bit better about Koskinen after checking them out.

Corsica has a stat called expected save percentage(xSV%). Basically they track the SH% of every shot location, so they can give you the league average SH% of the shots a goalie faced.

Corsica | Goalie Stats

Koskinen has an xSV% of 91.67 at even strength. His actual SV% is 91.32. That means he's facing a fairly difficult workload and performing at basically the league average.


Fire Schwartz into the sun, improve the team's defense and he might be passable, at least.

One of the major problems with Koskinen (that the stats dont reveal) is that he gives up goals (he should stop) at the worst possible time. He is a momentum killer far too often IMO.

Among other things I really question his mental toughness.

 

[TheNumber4]

I know some people don't like the fancy stats, but I feel a bit better about Koskinen after checking them out.

Corsica has a stat called expected save percentage(xSV%). Basically they track the SH% of every shot location, so they can give you the league average SH% of the shots a goalie faced.

Corsica | Goalie Stats

Koskinen has an xSV% of 91.67 at even strength. His actual SV% is 91.32. That means he's facing a fairly difficult workload and performing at basically the league average.


Fire Schwartz into the sun, improve the team's defense and he might be passable, at least.

Doesn’t this point to the obvious? That are defence and team isn’t good enough, when get outskated against good teams and they put up a boatload off point blank, Hugh danger oppurtinities on Kosko. And yet somehow this is all Koskos fault?

 

[TheNumber4]

One of the major problems with Koskinen (that the stats dont reveal) is that he gives up goals (he should stop) at the worst possible time. He is a momentum killer far too often IMO.

Among other things I really question his mental toughness.

The only thing wrong with Kosko is the team that falls apart in front of him.

 

[TheNumber4]

The fact that you can beat Koskinen cleanly just by going high so often is a huge liability in net. You watch teams play against him, they know where the weak spot is and they're all looking for it, to much success. Guy can make saves there is no question about that, but when you have a massive weak spot like he does you are worth nothing in the NHL. He's either gotta fix that glove hand or he'll keep getting lit up.

So pretty much the only way you beat him is by having the time and space to place perfectly placed top corner shots unimpeded. A luxury the Oilers do not get against the opposition goalie ever, yet give up em masse to the playoff teams in this league.

 

[guymez]

The only thing wrong with Kosko is the team that falls apart in front of him.

No...thats clearly not the only thing wrong with Kosko.

 

[TheNumber4]

No...thats clearly not the only thing wrong with Kosko.

Depends on what your benchmark for him is. If you expect him to be perfect in spite of the shit team in front of him then sure there’s plenty wrong. If you expect him to be a 15-25ish starter in this league like he’s paid to be (and still the best option the Oilers could acquire since he’s still better than Talbot) then he’s playing exactly how he should be playing. Couple bad games and bad goals and all, which happens to every starter in this league.