Player Discussion Koskinen Re-Signed PT2

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

I disavow my any earlier statements of "defense" of Koskinen, this isn't an NHL starting goalie and this contract is a millstone before it starts. What an unimaginable ****ing mistake.

Also, fire Hitchcock so he'll stop starting him already, Stolarz needs some work and recall Starrett because he both deserves in and that's a nice positive story to end this cluster **** of season on.

The fact that this org thought he was a starting goalie for the next three years based on an extremely small sample size is all you need to know about the Oilers. Incredibly short-sighted. Whoever thought this contract was a good idea should be fired yesterday.

 

[jeg]

as ugly as it has been I am OK with Kosky in a 1a/1B roll. He is very inconsistent right now but he does have moments of brilliance. We messed up on the contract size and lengh (Again) but if we bring someone in to push him and he gets to put in some work this off season i don't think Goalies will be our concern next year. That of course depends on who we grab as a back up

 

[TheRebuild]

Koskinen might show a return to form next year. I think he’s significantly better than he’s playing right now, but he’s still overpaid. Literally, no one here liked the contract he was signed to at any point since it was signed. Oilers brass need to pull the trigger and fire the goalie coaches working with him and hire that guy who showed Dubnyk how to do that eye-scanning thing.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

The fact that this org thought he was a starting goalie for the next three years based on an extremely small sample size is all you need to know about the Oilers. Incredibly short-sighted. Whoever thought this contract was a good idea should be fired yesterday.

Well technically , but they should all be fired. I would try to flip him to Florida for Luongo just to be rid of it, then find someone to compete with Lou.

 

[FlameChampion]

Koskinen might show a return to form next year. I think he’s significantly better than he’s playing right now, but he’s still overpaid. Literally, no one here liked the contract he was signed to at any point since it was signed. Oilers brass need to pull the trigger and fire the goalie coaches working with him and hire that guy who showed Dubnyk how to do that eye-scanning thing.

The problem is that the organization constantly sets up their goaltenders to fail. It happened with Talbot. Its happening with Koskinen to end the season. I dont like the contract, but the organization isnt doing any favors for Koskinen at the moment.

 

[CycloneSweep]

The problem is that the organization constantly sets up their goaltenders to fail. It happened with Talbot. Its happening with Koskinen to end the season. I dont like the contract, but the organization isnt doing any favors for Koskinen at the moment.

Contract is signed its done whatever. Now you have to find a way to set your goalie up to succeed. Koskinen hasn't played this many games before really and they are over pushing it. Koskinen has always been a goalie who thrives in a 1a/1b role. Has someone to push him and isn't relied upon as THE guy.

What do we do? Play him as much as possible even when he is clearly struggling, destroy any confidence he has and don't even play Stolarz in enough games to keep his rights. It's a terrible amount of player mismanagement no matter what your opinion on Koskinen is.

 

[aspin3]

The problem is that the organization constantly sets up their goaltenders to fail. It happened with Talbot. Its happening with Koskinen to end the season. I dont like the contract, but the organization isnt doing any favors for Koskinen at the moment.

Not to make excuses for Koskinen, but the NHL schedule, travel, etc. is quite a bit different than what he has been accustomed to. I see a big drop off as the season comes to a loss. Just like players coming from college and Europe he needs to build his conditioning more to avoid this drop-off. He needs to be better prepared for the battle of a long season.

 

[guymez]

Contract is signed its done whatever. Now you have to find a way to set your goalie up to succeed. Koskinen hasn't played this many games before really and they are over pushing it. Koskinen has always been a goalie who thrives in a 1a/1b role. Has someone to push him and isn't relied upon as THE guy.

What do we do? Play him as much as possible even when he is clearly struggling, destroy any confidence he has and don't even play Stolarz in enough games to keep his rights. It's a terrible amount of player mismanagement no matter what your opinion on Koskinen is.

There is little to no evidence to support this assertion. In terms of the NHL Koskinen is a question mark at best.

 

[CycloneSweep]

There is little to no evidence to support this assertion. In terms of the NHL Koskinen is a question mark at best.

In his last 5 KHL seasons his worst numbers is when he played 2/3 of the season. When he played roughly half the games his numbers have been better.

There is evidence of that. Of course not at the NHL level cause he hasn't played enough here but in his NHL career, his numbers tend to be better in that split role.

 

[FlameChampion]

Not to make excuses for Koskinen, but the NHL schedule, travel, etc. is quite a bit different than what he has been accustomed to. I see a big drop off as the season comes to a loss. Just like players coming from college and Europe he needs to build his conditioning more to avoid this drop-off. He needs to be better prepared for the battle of a long season.

I just dont see any other teams who play their goaltenders like we do down the stretch unless its a Montreal or something which makes sense considering the context. Honestly I dont think its even the coaching making the decisions. I think upper management is playing their number one goalie so at the end of the year they can be like "We were only 4 points out of a playoff spot, this team is close, trust the process and the people in charge, Bakersfields doing great!!!".

 

[guymez]

In his last 5 KHL seasons his worst numbers is when he played 2/3 of the season. When he played roughly half the games his numbers have been better.

There is evidence of that. Of course not at the NHL level cause he hasn't played enough here but in his NHL career, his numbers tend to be better in that split role.

I am just suggesting that his KHL numbers have little to no relevance.
Even the sample size in the NHL is very limited (and too inconsistent) in terms of trying to extrapolate his level of play next season.

There have been some signs of limited solid play and there have also been many signs of trouble.

As an Oiler fan I would like nothing more than to have confidence in Koskinen moving forward. The trouble is there is precious little evidence to suggest that he will even be a solid tandem goalie next season.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Not to make excuses for Koskinen, but the NHL schedule, travel, etc. is quite a bit different than what he has been accustomed to. I see a big drop off as the season comes to a loss. Just like players coming from college and Europe he needs to build his conditioning more to avoid this drop-off. He needs to be better prepared for the battle of a long season.

The dropoff occurred starting in December, and has been seen since. He was not overworked, or outplayed to that point. He wasn't even a bonafide starter at that point.

This player had one good month, November, then unravelled, soon as teams started getting film on his weaknesses. Now teams are laughing at him. Did you see the AV's laughing at how easy it was to score on him last night. This is about the 10th time I've noted that.

Koski is like a cheat code, for opposition. In an instant convert a 2 goal lead to a 2 goal deficit. Did he make more than a couple stops in that 6min stretch?

 

[Drivesaitl]

The montly splits, statistically, tell the story. Inordinately good results in November and nothing close to it, all subpar numbers, in the other 5mths. Other than November he's running combined numbers that looks something like 3.15GAA and .898 save %. This is abysmal.

This is a 3GAA/game career goalie, who was hired on as a starter. Its asinine. He's in way over his head because he is not close to having the skillsets, or even the youth in which to grow into being a starter. He was automatically anointed starter, by the org that makes the worst decisions in hockey, consistently.

 

[CycloneSweep]

I am just suggesting that his KHL numbers have little to no relevance.
Even the sample size in the NHL is very limited (and too inconsistent) in terms of trying to extrapolate his level of play next season.

There have been some signs of limited solid play and there have also been many signs of trouble.

As an Oiler fan I would like nothing more than to have confidence in Koskinen moving forward. The trouble is there is precious little evidence to suggest that he will even be a solid tandem goalie next season.

I'm not saying there is evidence that he will be a solid tandem goalie. I said his success as mostly come AS a tandem goalie. So if we want to set him up to succeed we need to find a guy who can be in the tandem with him. Running him as THE guy is a recipe for failure.

 

[CycloneSweep]

The montly splits, statistically, tell the story. Inordinately good results in November and nothing close to it, all subpar numbers, in the other 5mths. Other than November he's running combined numbers that looks something like 3.15GAA and .898 save %. This is abysmal.

This is a 3GAA/game career goalie, who was hired on as a starter. Its asinine. He's in way over his head because he is not close to having the skillsets, or even the youth in which to grow into being a starter. He was automatically anointed starter, by the org that makes the worst decisions in hockey, consistently.

Still better than Talbots numbers this year.

 

[guymez]

I'm not saying there is evidence that he will be a solid tandem goalie. I said his success as mostly come AS a tandem goalie. So if we want to set him up to succeed we need to find a guy who can be in the tandem with him. Running him as THE guy is a recipe for failure.

I agree with your last statement.
I would also take it one step further...if I was the GM I would acquire an experienced goalie who has shown that he can play at least 50 games at a high level.
The Oilers have to hedge their bet on Koskinen at this point. Way too much at stake to assume that he is a quality tandem goalie. At best I would project him as a solid backup...if he out performs that then great. If he doesnt then the team isnt in trouble.
Gambling on Koskinen as a quality tandem goalie next season is using poor judgement IMO especially with the situation being as dire as it is.

 

[CycloneSweep]

I agree with your last statement.
I would also take it one step further...if I was the GM I would acquire an experienced goalie who has shown that he can play at least 50 games at a high level.
The Oilers have to hedge their bet on Koskinen at this point. Way too much at stake to assume that he is a quality tandem goalie. At best I would project him as a solid backup...if he out performs that then great. If he doesnt then the team isnt in trouble.
Gambling on Koskinen as a quality tandem goalie next season is using poor judgement IMO especially with the situation being as dire as it is.

Thats the point of running a tandem. We can't just go out and find a legit starter, you like you said find a guy that can play solid for 40+ games. You then hope that Koskinen can play his 40+ too.

You gamble on it because we don't have the resources or cap to go find an established starter and run Koskinen as a backup. You gamble on him being a good tandem goalie cause really its the only option. My idea was that you find a young up and coming goalie that could be cheap and you hope challenges Koskinen. Maybe they steal the spot or give us enough good games that it can balance the rough ones Koskinen gives you.

It's not really a gamble you really want to take but its kind of the only real option we have at this point.

 

[guymez]

Thats the point of running a tandem. We can't just go out and find a legit starter, you like you said find a guy that can play solid for 40+ games. You then hope that Koskinen can play his 40+ too.

You gamble on it because we don't have the resources or cap to go find an established starter and run Koskinen as a backup. You gamble on him being a good tandem goalie cause really its the only option. My idea was that you find a young up and coming goalie that could be cheap and you hope challenges Koskinen. Maybe they steal the spot or give us enough good games that it can balance the rough ones Koskinen gives you.

It's not really a gamble you really want to take but its kind of the only real option we have at this point.

IMO there is no more hoping. If part of this teams plan is to hope for the best with Koskinen then its a failure in the making.
There can be no more hoping for the best...thats the recipe that has brought failure all these years.
This team has to know what it has moving forward in every aspect of the team. That for me (in goal) means giving Koskinen an opportunity to be a solid backup first.
That means having an older experienced goalie who the team can absolutely count on to play up to 50 games if necessary.

 

[CycloneSweep]

IMO there is no more hoping. If part of this teams plan is to hope for the best with Koskinen then its a failure in the making.
There can be no more hoping for the best...thats the recipe that has brought failure all these years.
This team has to know what it has moving forward in every aspect of the team. That for me (in goal) means giving Koskinen an opportunity to be a solid backup first.
That means having an older experienced goalie who the team can absolutely count on to play up to 50 games if necessary.

But where do you find the money for that. You can't bring in a $5million dollar starter to push him down to a backup as that is pretty much most of our capspace and the rest of the roster will still suck and it really won't matter.

If you can bring in an older experience goalie for 2-2.5 mill than sure. But if you have to bring in an established starter you are writing the season off cause you sure as hell can't afford to improve the rest of the roster anymore.

Koskinens contract is hard to swallow with his NMC. So we have to bring in a decently priced vet like you said or a young up and comer and hope for the best while improving the rest of the roster to take some heat off the goaltending position.

 

[guymez]

But where do you find the money for that. You can't bring in a $5million dollar starter to push him down to a backup as that is pretty much most of our capspace and the rest of the roster will still suck and it really won't matter.

If you can bring in an older experience goalie for 2-2.5 mill than sure. But if you have to bring in an established starter you are writing the season off cause you sure as hell can't afford to improve the rest of the roster anymore.

Koskinens contract is hard to swallow with his NMC. So we have to bring in a decently priced vet like you said or a young up and comer and hope for the best while improving the rest of the roster to take some heat off the goaltending position.

They have to shed salary this off season. That IMO is priority 1 and the team will likely have to be very creative to do this but its a must IMO.
Secondly you only need a goalie for 1 year...that opens up more possibilities.

 

[CycloneSweep]

They have to shed salary this off season. That IMO is priority 1 and the team will likely have to be very creative to do this but its a must IMO.
Secondly you only need a goalie for 1 year...that opens up more possibilities.

Of course we have to shed salary. We just don't have the money to be spending 9.5 mill+ on goaltending, when the rest of the roster is in shambles. Improve the rest of the roster, it puts less pressure on the goaltending which would improve Koskinens stats. When your team is bad where your goalie giving up 1 bad goal means the games over, thats your main target.

Goalies are voodoo too.

 

[guymez]

Of course we have to shed salary. We just don't have the money to be spending 9.5 mill+ on goaltending, when the rest of the roster is in shambles. Improve the rest of the roster, it puts less pressure on the goaltending which would improve Koskinens stats. When your team is bad where your goalie giving up 1 bad goal means the games over, thats your main target.

Goalies are voodoo too.

Disagree.
Spending $9M on goaltending is not unreasonable. They need to fortify this team starting with the goalie position and move towards the forwards from there. Back end first...front end second.
Yes the forwards are an issue but getting the puck to the forwards was IMO by far the biggest issue.
Up until Sekera returned they had 1 dman that was capable of that on a consistent basis...Klefbom.
Thats not even close to good enough.

Next season is far to critical to employ the 'hope for the best' model.

They need to get this right this summer.

 

[KingKhron]

It’s becoming more clear that the problem has been we’ve had, at best, an average starter for decades. The one year that a goalie plays out of his wheelhouse is the one year we make the playoffs with a 100+ point season. Despite our need for a true number one D or a couple top six forwards, I think it might actually be a proper goalie that’s needed. In a few years...

 

[Dazed and Confused]

I don't understand the mindset of running him into the ground to finish the season. Since the Talbot trade, Stolarz has started one game.

I get they're trying for the "playoff push", but then they should have just gone after Elliot from Philly. At least then they would have had a passable 1B hanging around.

 

[Messrules11]

Disagree.
Spending $9M on goaltending is not unreasonable. They need to fortify this team starting with the goalie position and move towards the forwards from there. Back end first...front end second.
Yes the forwards are an issue but getting the puck to the forwards was IMO by far the biggest issue.
Up until Sekera returned they had 1 dman that was capable of that on a consistent basis...Klefbom.
Thats not even close to good enough.

Next season is far to critical to employ the 'hope for the best' model.

They need to get this right this summer.

I agree, when a guy is this bad with any high shots your team has no chance. None. 3 years with this guy means 3 years of no playoffs