Kitchener Rangers 2020 Offseason Thread

[Jives]

MM got a steal on both imo. Andrew was taking a bit later then expected (13 to 15). Jacob was taking a good chuck later as they wanted to stay together. I think everyone is going to be very happy with these picks.

 

[Buttsy]

The whole Bob McKenzie and his son tweet, twerk or twick (whatever) was bogus at best. Bob is way to professional to throw away his career’s integrity by trying to manipulate the OHL Draft. Embarrassing at best for both your GM and the Rangers organization and totally unfair. If the Rangers get the kid and he plays for Kitchener it will of had nothing to do with this crap.

Welcome to 2020 and the “Social Media” era ..... bunch of BS.

 

[Buttsy]

Also I think you have one of the brightest and best minds in hockey when it comes to Mike McKenzie. He has quickly become one of the best GM’s in the OHL. Next up for him is to find “his coach” for this team. He is not a coach and I believe he knows that.

Who do you all think is going to lead this team from behind the bench?

 

[Jives]

.

 

[bobber]

The whole Bob McKenzie and his son tweet, twerk or twick (whatever) was bogus at best. Bob is way to professional to throw away his career’s integrity by trying to manipulate the OHL Draft. Embarrassing at best for both your GM and the Rangers organization and totally unfair. If the Rangers get the kid and he plays for Kitchener it will of had nothing to do with this crap.

Welcome to 2020 and the “Social Media” era ..... bunch of BS.

Good post Butsy. There are a few so called " Insiders" on the hockey forums that try to stir up controversy by throwing out false narratives. They pretend they are contacted daily by OHL GMs and scouts. There are a few people posting on these boards that do have some great info to pass on. Not many are true "insiders".

 

[EvenSteven]

The Kitchener Admirals? Southern Tier trio taken by Rangers - KitchenerToday.com

Good read.

Seems like my assumption from an earlier post was accurate where MM didn’t think Fantilli would be around at 17 and was in contact with his camp before settling on LeBlanc.

Based on what he said, it would have been interesting to see what would have happened if we had an early 2nd round pick.

 

[ohloutsider]

Good post Butsy. There are a few so called " Insiders" on the hockey forums that try to stir up controversy by throwing out false narratives. They pretend they are contacted daily by OHL GMs and scouts. There are a few people posting on these boards that do have some great info to pass on. Not many are true "insiders".

The true "insiders" rarely post inside info on sites like this. Most don't want to scare off their contacts and break a trust between them.

 

[Tim Wallach]

Also I think you have one of the brightest and best minds in hockey when it comes to Mike McKenzie. He has quickly become one of the best GM’s in the OHL. Next up for him is to find “his coach” for this team. He is not a coach and I believe he knows that.

Who do you all think is going to lead this team from behind the bench?

I'm not sure who the top candidates will be. My only hope is that it's an external candidate. The hiring-from-within path has been a den of mediocrity and the current assistants were all here during the McKee slog. And while I didn't like McKee's coaching abilities at all, I don't think he was a dictator at all who stifled his assistants. So I want them to cast the net far and wide and bring in someone with a strong track record. The time for internal hires is not now.

The Kitchener Admirals? Southern Tier trio taken by Rangers - KitchenerToday.com

Good read.

Seems like my assumption from an earlier post was accurate where MM didn’t think Fantilli would be around at 17 and was in contact with his camp before settling in LeBlanc.

Based on what he said, it would have been interesting to see what would have happened if we had an early 2nd round pick.

The most telling thing about MM's quotes were that he didn't feel the Rangers were as well positioned as other teams to take that risk. Translation: A team with no 2nd round picks can't afford to miss on a 1st round pick. Even having him skip this year is a dagger as you want a kid who comes in right away and starts growing with your group. So Fantilli wasn't a great fit for that reason.

What was unsaid was that you'd have to value Fantilli as miles better than other options in order to take that risk and I really get the sense they are extremely high on Andrew Leblanc.

 

[EvenSteven]

I'm not sure who the top candidates will be. My only hope is that it's an external candidate. The hiring-from-within path has been a den of mediocrity and the current assistants were all here during the McKee slog. And while I didn't like McKee's coaching abilities at all, I don't think he was a dictator at all who stifled his assistants. So I want them to cast the net far and wide and bring in someone with a strong track record. The time for internal hires is not now.

100% agree. We’ve hired from within with every coaching hire, except for DeBoer, since Tom Barrett in the mid-80’s.

Joe McDonnell was likely the best hire in this manner during that period (‘90 Memorial Cup final game). Sure he had the ‘89 upset on his record but even DeBoer had his major upset in ‘06.

I’d say Spott and Geoff Ward are close but I’d give the nod to Ward. Both got us to the final four but based on available talent and regular season record, Spott was a post season underachiever.

Van Ryn was good but not a long enough sample size to give a true evaluation.

This team needs to get the best available coach. Proven winner at this level (OHL, Q, or Dub). Established at this level. Hopefully happy to remain at this level for the foreseeable future. Hiring a guy from, say, the AHL only to have him move on after a year won’t sit well. Sign him long term. Add Assistant GM to the job title and the promise of real roster input to attract the best possible candidates. Of course, give him a blank check (within reason of course). This coaching position should be among the highest paid in junior hockey.

Leave the business of hiring from within to teams with tighter purse strings. This team can afford to throw money around. Let’s start doing it. Making a cheap hire has to be a thing of the past. Hiring from within usually means the job goes to a guy who’s just happy to have the job no matter the pay and therefore, not the best available.

The most telling thing about MM's quotes were that he didn't feel the Rangers were as well positioned as other teams to take that risk. Translation: A team with no 2nd round picks can't afford to miss on a 1st round pick. Even having him skip this year is a dagger as you want a kid who comes in right away and starts growing with your group. So Fantilli wasn't a great fit for that reason.

What was unsaid was that you'd have to value Fantilli as miles better than other options in order to take that risk and I really get the sense they are extremely high on Andrew Leblanc.

I agree. And I like that we’ll have a first rounder play on this team this year. It’s all bad enough having a Roman Schmidt as a second rounder not show up when we don’t have a 3rd round pick, let alone your first round pick not showing up.

Now, that doesn’t mean that if Saginaw is unable to sign Fantilli that we don’t at least explore trading for his rights as a defective player. Obviously a long shot but if MM is interested enough in him at 17 to inquire about his intentions, he’d be interested enough to look into the cost of trading for him in September.

However, any deal for Fantilli would have to involve conditional picks. The only way I make a deal is if all the picks come back to us if he doesn’t sign here before the start of next year. We cannot tie up assets going into 21-22, an “all in” year. Major mistake by Hiebert IMO constructing the Tortora deal the way he did. We could have used those 2nds at the 2016 deadline. Instead, we were left to do the laughable and expensive Fabbri deal.

 

[rangersblues]

I agree about Ward and Spott both being decent coaches looking back. Spott was indeed very good his first two seasons. The Rangers 2010 playoffs are now being televised on Rogers and even the Saginaw series was as good hockey as we've seen since Deboer imo. I can't wait to watch the series vs London and Windsor, even if the sting of losing the 3-0 lead is still there.

Spott had a couple of downfalls his first two seasons that seemed to spiral. He tied himself to commitments to certain players and that really lost the teams focus. Maxwell should not have been given the goaltending job on a silver platter. If we don't trade Parks in 2010 who knows if we don't beat Windsor. And 2011 vs Saginaw was really his backbreaker.

Spott couldn't develop Murphy into a rounded player for whatever reason. Likely not his fault as it didn't happen later in pro either.

Maybe most important, Spott had subpar assistant coaches and it may have taken a toll especially in a dual head coach/GM roll. Fixter and Smith both tried their hand at the head coach roll and failed.

 

[EvenSteven]

Spott also had a sub par GM. He said himself after the 2010 playoffs that he misjudged our team. He said if he had his time back he would’ve traded for a veteran D which would’ve helped us get over the top.

 

[MatthewsMoustache]

off the top of my head, I can think of 3 head coaches who are unemployed right now. first is Troy Smith, but I'm gonna guess that's a non-option. next are Stan Butler and Vince Laise. Butler is still in some sort of an advisory role in North Bay but maybe the right team could sway him away. that would not be my 1st, 2nd or 3rd favourite option, but it's there.

Vince Laise is intriguing to me. he only had 60 games as a head coach in the league, but from what I know about Hamilton, he seemed to have gotten a lot out of his guys this year. the Bulldogs had 14 20+ point getters in a sort of rebuild year. Kitchener only had 11. some fans were mad about the Laise firing. the team did go out and lose their first game without him 8-0

edit: after further review, Vince Laise appears to have quite a temper that lead to his firing in the hammer. that's a red flag

 

[rangersblues]

Spott also had a sub par GM. He said himself after the 2010 playoffs that he misjudged our team. He said if he had his time back he would’ve traded for a veteran D which would’ve helped us get over the top.

If you mean the 2010 playoffs, nobody judged our team correctly. Everyone was predicting Windsor or Barrie as league champs. That's what made it so much fun.

If you mean 2010-11 playoffs - Maxwell sealed our fate in what was a wide open year.

Don't even mention Stan Butler as a possible HC. Most overrated coach in the history of the OHL. The very definition of mediocrity.

 

[Coaches Coroner]

I'm not interested in Stan Butler at this point in his career.

 

[EvenSteven]

If you mean the 2010 playoffs, nobody judged our team correctly. Everyone was predicting Windsor or Barrie as league champs. That's what made it so much fun.

If you mean 2010-11 playoffs - Maxwell sealed our fate in what was a wide open year.

Don't even mention Stan Butler as a possible HC. Most overrated coach in the history of the OHL. The very definition of mediocrity.

It was definitely 2010. I remember the article that appeared in a magazine during that summer. He wished in hindsight he would’ve rated that team better and traded for veteran depth on D.

As far as Stan Butler goes, I believe the reason he stepped down from coaching was for health reasons. However, even if he was 30 years old I don’t want anything to do with him. Along with being overrated, he coaches the most boring style of play ever. They’d have to hand out pillows to everybody on their way into the building if he was our head coach.

I know he’s probably not available (under contract), and I know the Guelph fans have ripped on him from time to time, but you could do a lot worse than George Burnett.

Since he’s come on board in Guelph, he’s run a tight ship, not afraid to make shrewd moves, and knows how to build a winning team. And, he’s not a threat every off-season to be hired away from you to the pros.

Any idea when his contract is up?

 

[SYWTom]

Ahh Maxwell... what a weird time for me as a Rangers fan. Maxwell and I were in the same class multiple times growing up. Always wished those years would have went better for him.

 

[bobber]

off the top of my head, I can think of 3 head coaches who are unemployed right now. first is Troy Smith, but I'm gonna guess that's a non-option. next are Stan Butler and Vince Laise. Butler is still in some sort of an advisory role in North Bay but maybe the right team could sway him away. that would not be my 1st, 2nd or 3rd favourite option, but it's there.

Vince Laise is intriguing to me. he only had 60 games as a head coach in the league, but from what I know about Hamilton, he seemed to have gotten a lot out of his guys this year. the Bulldogs had 14 20+ point getters in a sort of rebuild year. Kitchener only had 11. some fans were mad about the Laise firing. the team did go out and lose their first game without him 8-0
If you want to see the most boring hockey in the CHL bring in Butler. He is aways clawing his way up the standings. Always a bridesmaid. Never wants to trade top players when he should. He loves trapping and boring defensive hockey that doesn't cut it today.
edit: after further review, Vince Laise appears to have quite a temper that lead to his firing in the hammer. that's a red flag

 

[Tim Wallach]

I think we need to think beyond just unemployed OHL coaches. If we're looking for a currently employed one a la Burnett, Lazary would be top of my list.

Ottawa did great in stealing Tourigny from the Q. There are also a wealth of minor pro coaches circulating.

I might jump off a building if we brought in Butler. Aside from an extremely underwhelming career record in every regard, he can't play anything but the least entertaining style possible.

 

[SYWTom]

I think we need to think beyond just unemployed OHL coaches. If we're looking for a currently employed one a la Burnett, Lazary would be top of my list.

Ottawa did great in stealing Tourigny from the Q. There are also a wealth of minor pro coaches circulating.

I might jump off a building if we brought in Butler. Aside from an extremely underwhelming career record in every regard, he can't play anything but the least entertaining style possible.

I don’t think we need to worry about Butler coming here. McKenzie wants to play entertaining hockey, and kids want to play the fast up tempo game now like the NHL plays. IMO it would hurt recruiting to play that style so I don’t think McKenzie would ever do that.

 

[MatthewsMoustache]

I was just saying available ex OHL head coaches in my earlier post. I doubt the coach that MM hires has recently been a head coach in the OHL, if ever. could be someone else’s assistant coach, someone working their way up the ranks from lower level junior, or someone coming down from pro hockey.

 

[Ward Cornell]

No idea who or what direction that MM will be going for his search for a new HC. I think rightfully so that an asst-coach
in the AHL may be the one getting the job. But one possible candidate could be ex-Dutchie coach Dave Williams. He spent the
last 5 seasons with Stratford Warriors compiling an overall record of 157W-71L-7 ties and 12 OT Losses.
*not sure how they had ties

 

[MatthewsMoustache]

No idea who or what direction that MM will be going for his search for a new HC. I think rightfully so that an asst-coach
in the AHL may be the one getting the job. But one possible candidate could be ex-Dutchie coach Dave Williams. He spent the
last 5 seasons with Stratford Warriors compiling an overall record of 157W-71L-7 ties and 12 OT Losses.
*not sure how they had ties

I think they separate shootout and overtime losses in some leagues

 

[Rangers True Blue]

Ottavainen signs back with Karpat in Finland? Avoiding the virus? OR just not happy here? He started off strong but faded in the back stretch here.

 

[SYWTom]

That’s unfortunate I thought Ville had lots of potential.

 

[Tim Wallach]

I'm not surprised. With so much uncertainty around the coronavirus, I expect a lot of import players will lock up spots at home this season. That, coupled with the fact that Ville didn't get a ton of playing time and most of the D is returning, and it's not shocking.