Kitchener Rangers 2020 Offseason Thread (Part 2)

[MatthewsMoustache]

Really hoping something actually comes of the talk this time around. I’m really interested to see how the Rangers handle their defence situation. with Vukojevic, Sebrango, Xhekaj, MacPherson, Wale, Ottavainen and Motew all back as well as the addition of Jacob LeBlanc, they’ll have 8 D. The only one I can see being a healthy scratch is LeBlanc. Motew is in his draft year, Ville has climbed all the way up to the Liiga in Finland this year, and the other 5 are all experienced vets now.

 

[EvenSteven]

I expect we’d move at least one of the OA d-men.

 

[LolaT200]

Any way you slice it, the Rangers are not going to be a fun team to play against.

 

[Coaches Coroner]

I have no expectations when it comes to any kind of trades being made. If there is a season at this point, it's going to be so short I can't really see many if any teams being willing to move the kind of assets we've seen good veteran players return in normal times.

 

[MatthewsMoustache]

I as well as many others figured Vukojevic and an OA D man would be on the way out, but as mentioned I doubt a) that anyone is willing to give up many picks for 24 games and playoffs and b) that MM would trade Vukojevic for a reduced price rather than just keep him. With the addition of Wismer and a solid core of returning forwards as well, this Rangers team can certainly compete for a couple playoff rounds IMO

 

[Saggy]

Ive always loved the Rangers but re there not a lot of question marks of offence this year? I think London will be taking a big step back so with a little luck (assuming same divisions) the Rangers might be able to take them this year.

 

[MatthewsMoustache]

Ive always loved the Rangers but re there not a lot of question marks of offence this year? I think London will be taking a big step back so with a little luck (assuming same divisions) the Rangers might be able to take them this year.

Their forward group is built a lot like it was the year that Meireles, Damiani, Yantsis, Hugg & Garreffa all exploded. Valade, Petizian, McDonnell & Pinelli all sort of took the passenger seat to the big boys from last years team but they all have shown glimpses of being able to take over when given the opportunity, much like the first group I listed off.

I’m not expecting anyone to get 24 goals in 24 games this season but if they can all step up with the extra opportunity then they could be dangerous.

 

[EvenSteven]

....this Rangers team can certainly compete for a couple playoff rounds IMO

Um, I have to ask:

After having going all in for the 19-20 season, I thought the consensus was that the expectation for a 20-21 season was a reload season with 21-22 targeted as an all in season with our third and fourth year guys (Valade, Pinelli, MacDonnell, Sebrango, etc) forming the nucleus.

This year had us moving graduating assets like Vukojevic, etc to bring in assets to contend next year.

I get it that all bets are off if we have a 24 game season. Anything goes I suppose. But I still think if we can sell off graduating assets for decent return, we should. Especially since the OHL is (supposedly) hosting this year. If the Soo or Oshawa eventually hosts, I’m still pushing we move Vuko if the return is good. Would a reverse of the Noel deal be fair?

Just asking.

 

[MatthewsMoustache]

Um, I have to ask:

After having going all in for the 19-20 season, I thought the consensus was that the expectation for a 20-21 season was a reload season with 21-22 targeted as an all in season with our third and fourth year guys (Valade, Pinelli, MacDonnell, Sebrango, etc) forming the nucleus.

This year had us moving graduating assets like Vukojevic, etc to bring in assets to contend next year.

I get it that all bets are off if we have a 24 game season. Anything goes I suppose. But I still think if we can sell off graduating assets for decent return, we should. Especially since the OHL is (supposedly) hosting this year. If the Soo or Oshawa eventually hosts, I’m still pushing we move Vuko if the return is good. Would a reverse of the Noel deal be fair?

Just asking.

That’s what I was hoping originally. I don’t know how trades would work with hub cities, which is why I’m leaning this way. If they can do trades and get a decent return on Vukojevic, that would certainly be my preference. Just basing it off the assumption that trades will be extremely difficult and prices will be very low.

 

[GeoBlue]

That’s what I was hoping originally. I don’t know how trades would work with hub cities, which is why I’m leaning this way. If they can do trades and get a decent return on Vukojevic, that would certainly be my preference. Just basing it off the assumption that trades will be extremely difficult and prices will be very low.

Personally, if they can confirm that there WILL be a Memorial Cup then I don't see why this oddball season would make a difference. A team would still need to "beef up" in order to go for it whether it be for 26 games or a full schedule.

On that note, I have to admit that I look at these shortened seasons, in all leagues and sports, as an asterisk. The play and feel are just not the same. Fan factor is HUGE especially in the playoffs. I hate to use most people's beloved Leafs as an example (I guess I'll be losing friends here) but they are in a "special" division with all Canadian teams. Keep in mind how well Canadian teams have traditionally done in the playoffs the last few decades.

Let's use Tampa Bay Lightening as an example instead. I like them but one will never really know if they would have won a Stanley Cup had they went through an entire schedule and played before the various sets of fans. Or think of the NJ Devils and their first cup. (For you oldsters) Many STILL have that win beside an asterisk.

 

[EvenSteven]

That’s what I was hoping originally. I don’t know how trades would work with hub cities, which is why I’m leaning this way. If they can do trades and get a decent return on Vukojevic, that would certainly be my preference. Just basing it off the assumption that trades will be extremely difficult and prices will be very low.

If they do trades, the Vukojevic return should be substantial for these reasons:

- Vuko should be one of, if not the premiere D made available league wide this season. He’d be on the top of the list for any contender looking for blueline help.
- him currently playing in the AHL would boost his stock assuming he’s progressing well at that level. (5 pts in 6GP)
- any deal for him should be done before any season even starts. The team he’d be going to would have him for the “whole season” meaning a premium being paid.

Also, if we are in a bubble situation, it makes sense to get a deal out of the way in the event there are “bubble protocols that have to be adhered to. No point having Vuko starts as a Ranger and then have to sit out x amount of games waiting for a green light to resume play in another bubble. (See Dubois trade to Winnipeg).

 

[foghorn]

Just a fun scenario Kitchener fans for a team that could compete for a 2021 championship....what would you give up for Nick Robertson IF OHL plays and will raise a cup this season? Has had opportunites for leafs to call him up and hasnt I believe he'll be back to Petes if a season happens

 

[Saggy]

So lets play......I'm a Saginaw fan and we have a solid nucleus and Perfetti/Suzuki/Millman coming back from AHL once season starts. I would say if there is a year, this is the year that we have to go all in.......odds of Perfetti and Suzuki being there next year are slim.

We, like everyone, could use a stud blueliner like Vuko........what would you like in return? Be realistic and remember that you cant trade future first round picks

 

[PuckStop75]

Personally, if they can confirm that there WILL be a Memorial Cup then I don't see why this oddball season would make a difference. A team would still need to "beef up" in order to go for it whether it be for 26 games or a full schedule.

On that note, I have to admit that I look at these shortened seasons, in all leagues and sports, as an asterisk. The play and feel are just not the same. Fan factor is HUGE especially in the playoffs. I hate to use most people's beloved Leafs as an example (I guess I'll be losing friends here) but they are in a "special" division with all Canadian teams. Keep in mind how well Canadian teams have traditionally done in the playoffs the last few decades.

Let's use Tampa Bay Lightening as an example instead. I like them but one will never really know if they would have won a Stanley Cup had they went through an entire schedule and played before the various sets of fans. Or think of the NJ Devils and their first cup. (For you oldsters) Many STILL have that win beside an asterisk.

A Championship is a Championship, its a snap shot in time of who played the best hockey in a playoff formatted tournament, that's at the NHL, OHL and CHL level. The Memorial Cup being a 4-5 game mini version to define the top team in the Country. Every professional and major junior hockey league around the world is making the best of the situation, except the OHL, which is very disappointing.

 

[EvenSteven]

Just a fun scenario Kitchener fans for a team that could compete for a 2021 championship....what would you give up for Nick Robertson IF OHL plays and will raise a cup this season? Has had opportunites for leafs to call him up and hasnt I believe he'll be back to Petes if a season happens

Truth be told, we couldn’t afford him. We spent assets last trade deadline going all in and our cupboard isn’t near where it should be if we decided to contend.

For Robertson, we’d be easily outbid by any other team who’d go after him.

 

[MatthewsMoustache]

So lets play......I'm a Saginaw fan and we have a solid nucleus and Perfetti/Suzuki/Millman coming back from AHL once season starts. I would say if there is a year, this is the year that we have to go all in.......odds of Perfetti and Suzuki being there next year are slim.

We, like everyone, could use a stud blueliner like Vuko........what would you like in return? Be realistic and remember that you cant trade future first round picks

I’m going to add another hypothetical and say this trade happens before the season (Rangers tend to make a move or 2 in the offseason anyways). In a 68 game season, my ask for Vukojevic being the top D man available (or close), is 2x 2nds, 2x 3rd and a young forward (Josh Bloom for arguments sake).

Given all of the above, in a 24 game season, if the Spirit really think it’s worth giving up assets to go all in, I’m probably asking for Bloom, a 2nd and a 3rd.

For all we know though, price tags might not even drop that much. Serron Noel returned the Gens 2x 2nds, 2x 3rds and Ryan Stepien at the trade deadline. The deadline is around the 40 game mark and that means Kitchener paid that price for 28ish games and playoffs of Serron Noel.

 

[EvenSteven]

Interesting. Listening to the Spittin Chicklets podcast and their recent interview with Chris Thorburn. In the interview, he said that in his last year in Saginaw, the GM called the veteran in at the deadline and asked him to pick which contender he wanted to be dealt to. He told Thorburn that he had done deals on the table sending him to Plymouth and Kitchener.

Thorburn picked the Whalers because he was buddies with Cole Jarrett. That was 2003, the year we beat Plymouth in the third round on our way to the Memorial Cup.

Plymouth gave up 16 year old 1st rounder Taylor Raszka, and a conditional 5th for Thorburn and a 2nd.

Considering the Rangers didn’t complete a deadline deal that year, (Clarkson, and O’Nabigon came aboard very early in the season and Boucher came over from Miami of Ohio after the new year), anyone wonder what the package from the Rangers would have been for Thorburn?

It would have been substantial.

 

[MatthewsMoustache]

Interesting. Listening to the Spittin Chicklets podcast and their recent interview with Chris Thorburn. In the interview, he said that in his last year in Saginaw, the GM called the veteran in at the deadline and asked him to pick which contender he wanted to be dealt to. He told Thorburn that he had done deals on the table sending him to Plymouth and Kitchener.

Thorburn picked the Whalers because he was buddies with Cole Jarrett. That was 2003, the year we beat Plymouth in the third round on our way to the Memorial Cup.

Plymouth gave up 16 year old 1st rounder Taylor Raszka, and a conditional 5th for Thorburn and a 2nd.

Considering the Rangers didn’t complete a deadline deal that year, (Clarkson, and O’Nabigon came aboard very early in the season and Boucher came over from Miami of Ohio after the new year), anyone wonder what the package from the Rangers would have been for Thorburn?

It would have been substantial.

The easy answer would just be whoever Kitchener's 1st rounder was that year + a 2nd and a 5th. However, the Rangers pick was Evan McGrath and he put up 47 points to Raszka's 9 as 16 year olds. I think it would had to have been Paul McFarland, a 2nd and maybe a 3rd or 4th since he was a year older. The only other regular 17 year old in the lineup was Mike Richards and obviously he was going nowhere.

 

[MatthewsMoustache]

Matt Cato at eliteprospects.com

Rangers U18 draft pick Matt Cato was picked up by the Blind River Beavers in the NOJHL and has had 4 goals in 4 games since joining them in their RTP. If teams are going to bring extra players into a hub city situation he would be someone to keep an eye out for.

 

[EvenSteven]

The easy answer would just be whoever Kitchener's 1st rounder was that year + a 2nd and a 5th. However, the Rangers pick was Evan McGrath and he put up 47 points to Raszka's 9 as 16 year olds. I think it would had to have been Paul McFarland, a 2nd and maybe a 3rd or 4th since he was a year older. The only other regular 17 year old in the lineup was Mike Richards and obviously he was going nowhere.

The deal was Thorburn and a 2nd for Raszka and a condition 5th. This deal happened before teams paid outrageous prices for high end players.

As you say, no way McGrath or Richards would have been involved. So since we had no higher end expendable youth to include, we may have seen a deal where perhaps McFarland and Martynowski go the other way along with a 2nd for just Thorburn.

 

[Jives]

I’m for trading Vuko and anyone else not returning for the 2021-22 season. We gave away a lot last year. Get as many assets as you can this season and let the kids that will be here next year more ice time. We do JG t have the cupboards to compete this year but we have a very solid group returning in 2021-22. Get some picks this year and turn them into good players via trades next year.

 

[MatthewsMoustache]

My favourite thing about the current roster is the amount of players that can return next season. Of the 13 forwards, Wismer is the only OA and neither of the 01s are drafted and going to be moving on. On D, Vukojevic, MacPherson and Wale will be out but Sebrango, Xhekaj, Ottavainen (who's making a case to be drafted), Motew and LeBlanc will all be back.

Assuming there is a draft and that some more of the 2020 class are signed, there will be an abundance of players and flexibility to possibly move a younger player out to acquire more firepower.

 

[Saggy]

I’m going to add another hypothetical and say this trade happens before the season (Rangers tend to make a move or 2 in the offseason anyways). In a 68 game season, my ask for Vukojevic being the top D man available (or close), is 2x 2nds, 2x 3rd and a young forward (Josh Bloom for arguments sake).

Given all of the above, in a 24 game season, if the Spirit really think it’s worth giving up assets to go all in, I’m probably asking for Bloom, a 2nd and a 3rd.

For all we know though, price tags might not even drop that much. Serron Noel returned the Gens 2x 2nds, 2x 3rds and Ryan Stepien at the trade deadline. The deadline is around the 40 game mark and that means Kitchener paid that price for 28ish games and playoffs of Serron Noel.

Not sure we have that much in the cupboard as we gave up quite a bit to get Suzuki. How about an IOU plus a 2nd?

 

[EvenSteven]

Not sure we have that much in the cupboard as we gave up quite a bit to get Suzuki. How about an IOU plus a 2nd?

Saginaw has two or three 2nds available, but to outbid the competition for Vukojevic, they’ll have to add a quality body. Preferably someone the caliber to play as a top six F or top four D in Kitchener in 21-22. A player who’d have a hard time playing that role this year in Saginaw because of the veteran depth ahead of him.

I believe that player has to be Bloom along with a couple decent picks unless they were into moving their recent 1st rounder.

 

[Saggy]

I don't think you are allowed to move future first round picks (not 100% sure). Our last two first rounders were Fantilli (Chicago Steel) and Punnett (Barrie Colts) so can't help you much there. I think Bloom would be your top LW and he has a solid history with Pinelli (Team Canada, Team Ontario). Not sure if Saginaw would be willing to move him though. To get Vuko....I would make trade if I was Saginaw as top D are needed. They still have Perfetti and Suzuki to carry the offensive load.