Kitchener Rangers 2018-19 Season Thread (Part 3)

[bobber]

Personally I think scouting has to be an issue with the Rangers. I don't feel they do as well as most franchises. Presently our top players would not likely be on a number one line on most decent squads. Rangers just don't seem to draft players that get drafted by NHL teams. Presently we have two and one was brought in by trade.
Personally I think MM should be looking at making changes in this area. Rangers just aren't drafting enough players that make an impact. Most teams no matter there standings league wide have at least one or two first line stars. When the deadline comes opposing team GMs just aren't looking this way seriously. Not sure MM had the experience when they hired him to fill those boots. Not advocating firing anyone just wish they looked at experienced knowledgeable people when they need a hire a GM.

 

[MoWanchuk1]

MoWanchuki and you know this how? OHLInsiders? Highly doubt any person posting on any forum here knows anything about what was being done in Kitchener or in any other GMs office. They might say something to a reporter of a local paper telling them they won't trade roster players (Ottawa) but that is about all the ordinary fan would hear. The rest comes from speculation or just made up IMO.

It’s a forum, just posting what I was told by several teams if you choose not to believe me that’s fine.. for the others..MM gave the “I don’t want to sell price” ask for the moon. I think MM was satisfied just moving McHugh and keeping his other 99’s not sure why but that seemed to be their philosophy yesterday.

 

[Tim Wallach]

Garreffa is gifted offensively, yes, but he's a defensive liability. Don't understand why he wants to play defense when he's -19. Yantsis has a good shot but hes not quick enough, etc. They should have been gone before McHuge, who I believe is a better overall player than either of them.

Agree totally with this part.

For me one thing stood out at the deadline. Our drafting. Our 99s were not sought after like other teams were. We didn't have players who perform as highly. Might it be time to make some changes in that department? I don't think MM has completely made his mark on the team yet and maybe this is his next area for making changes. We simply have to draft better and smarter. Our players need to make a bigger impact. Owen Sound drafted better than we did and developed better than we did. They were able to sell their assets and get an amazing return. We sold one asset and got a 3rd, 4th and 8th round picks.

Moves need to be made to get us back to a competitive level. It starts with the draft and moves on to the development of those drafted. We have to do better.

Also bang on!

I agree with your assessment on Garreffa,Yantis and McHugh.

I agree George Burnett had a great trade deadline - the best by far imo. But he is far from the poster boy for success. The rules for trading draft picks changed things this year imo. Did Burnett read it correctly or just luck out?

Lots of intelligent posts today. This is also right on.

I mean, OS made a lot of good moves...but I doubt you or anyone else would be complimenting the Rangers if they gave up players of Suzuki and Durzi's calibre for that pittance. I wouldn't.

And another quite accurate assessment. Owen Sound has done better than Kitchener at drafting and developing, but DeGray gets a C at best on this trade. I think he painted himself into a corner by signalling a sell off with Phillips and Hancock (who was also woefully under-priced), and he was tied up by the fact Suzuki and Durzi wanted to be packaged, but he didn't get nearly enough. Look at what Oshawa got for a worse package in Studnicka/Brassard as a comparable.

And unless a brown envelope was exchanged the other way for Hancock, that deal was awful.

 

[bobber]

It’s a forum, just posting what I was told by several teams if you choose not to believe me that’s fine.. for the others..MM gave the “I don’t want to sell price” ask for the moon. I think MM was satisfied just moving McHugh and keeping his other 99’s not sure why but that seemed to be their philosophy yesterday.

No problem Mo. Just like to hear things from reliable sources. Not that many on social media including this forum. Not sure what your credentials are that you get to talk to actual teams but still want to see things come right from the horses mouth. At the deadline everyone is looking for rumours and watching posted rosters for any signs that a player might be traded. I am sure you would consider players on the Petes to be worth a certain price if you watch them live on a weekly basis. We get information usually directly from the Rangers or on the side from our newspaper reporter who asks the Ranger management questions.
As a 40 year fan of the Rangers I don't want to see our GM get rooked and not get value for certain players. I believe he did the right thing by not just giving players away just to get younger. In todays Record he said the offers were not that great and never went too far. He also said you need three OAs to compliment the young players and lead them as most teams do. If he did another deal like the McHugh trade fans here would have run him out of town tarred and feathered.

 

[MoWanchuk1]

No problem Mo. Just like to hear things from reliable sources. Not that many on social media including this forum. Not sure what your credentials are that you get to talk to actual teams but still want to see things come right from the horses mouth. At the deadline everyone is looking for rumours and watching posted rosters for any signs that a player might be traded. I am sure you would consider players on the Petes to be worth a certain price if you watch them live on a weekly basis. We get information usually directly from the Rangers or on the side from our newspaper reporter who asks the Ranger management questions.
As a 40 year fan of the Rangers I don't want to see our GM get rooked and not get value for certain players. I believe he did the right thing by not just giving players away just to get younger. In todays Record he said the offers were not that great and never went too far. He also said you need three OAs to compliment the young players and lead them as most teams do. If he did another deal like the McHugh trade fans here would have run him out of town tarred and feathered.

I agree thanks bobber not trying to come across as a know it all maybe first post was a tad harsh towards MM. Every team needs competent vets and they definitely have those in yantsis and miereles. In another post someone eluded to the fact that other teams didn’t want Rangers 99’s I would say is untrue. Both Yantsis and Miereles were highly sought after offering price and particular teams of interest didn’t seem to match. Best of luck rest of way

 

[OhSheila]

I think MM is a good GM. He's now had time to assess things. My guess is he'll make changes in the scouting department. The current crew has found some some good players, but not very many great players. That HAS to change.

 

[MoWanchuk1]

I think MM is a good GM. He's now had time to assess things. My guess is he'll make changes in the scouting department. The current crew has found some some good players, but not very many great players. That HAS to change.

Trouble with Kitchener is they are always at least middle of the pack with a decent team therefore draft around 10-15 always which doesn’t allow you to get those real studs OR they are much harder to find. So they are a team in a position where they always want to be competitive but picking in middle always is tough.

 

[bobber]

Trouble with Kitchener is they are always at least middle of the pack with a decent team therefore draft around 10-15 always which doesn’t allow you to get those real studs OR they are much harder to find. So they are a team in a position where they always want to be competitive but picking in middle always is tough.

I agree Mo. Teams seem to spin their wheels most of the time finishing mid pack unless they are maybe the Knights or Soo as an example. We also had issues here with giving away our second and third round picks for a few years. Teams at the bottom have to grab those top five to ten players in rebuild years. I still think our scouts have the wrong picture of the prototypical OHL prospect on the wall but I could be wrong and usually are. Mascherin was a great pick but was ranked at number two behind McCloud I believe so he has to turn into a decent player. Some folks are saying this draft is weak. Scouting reports look glowing. Not sure what to believe.

 

[MoWanchuk1]

I agree Mo. Teams seem to spin their wheels most of the time finishing mid pack unless they are maybe the Knights or Soo as an example. We also had issues here with giving away our second and third round picks for a few years. Teams at the bottom have to grab those top five to ten players in rebuild years. I still think our scouts have the wrong picture of the prototypical OHL prospect on the wall but I could be wrong and usually are. Mascherin was a great pick but was ranked at number two behind McCloud I believe so he has to turn into a decent player. Some folks are saying this draft is weak. Scouting reports look glowing. Not sure what to believe.

All true the game is speed and skill now which they drafted but tou still need that mix but hey hindsight’s 20/20 .. I’m hearing top 20 is as good as ever it’s just that beyond that teams will have to have done their homework to pull a decent 2nd round pick.

 

[Coaches Coroner]

Personally I think scouting has to be an issue with the Rangers. I don't feel they do as well as most franchises. Presently our top players would not likely be on a number one line on most decent squads. Rangers just don't seem to draft players that get drafted by NHL teams. Presently we have two and one was brought in by trade.
Personally I think MM should be looking at making changes in this area. Rangers just aren't drafting enough players that make an impact. Most teams no matter there standings league wide have at least one or two first line stars. When the deadline comes opposing team GMs just aren't looking this way seriously. Not sure MM had the experience when they hired him to fill those boots. Not advocating firing anyone just wish they looked at experienced knowledgeable people when they need a hire a GM.

For what it's worth, they added a couple new scouts (including a new goalie scout) this season according to eliteprospects. I agree they need to re-evaluate their existing scouts as, when I checked, more than half of them have been around for a decade or more (some in the 7-8 year range). One scout, the son of the current head scout, was hired at 19 years ago...usually guys hired that young have some kind exceptional ability and in that case often move up the ranks or move on to better opportunities...the fact that he hasn't doesn't mean he's not a good scout but I'd like his performance to be evaluated as this business has a penchant for nepotism hiring and I would want to make sure that he has the ability and is not there simply because of his father.

I'm not sure it's quite true we draft players that NHL teams don't draft, we've had several guys in recent years (including last) drafted. We had an off year in terms of NHL drafted players with the players selected in Meireless draft year, but outside of that, it hasn't been quite that bad. Although I do recall Spott changing drafting philosophy and taking a Pedersen type in round 1 (many had him as a 3rd rounder) because he wanted a 4 year player minimum due to losing Skinner and Landeskog to the NHL in back to back years.

 

[rangersblues]

Not wanting to lose a player because they get called up to the NHL early is unbelievably STUPID and says all you need to know about our philosophy. I will take what Skinner and Landeskog did in their shortened period here or what Marner, Tkachuk etc did while in junior over anything our draft picks have done since. I just keep getting more and more pissed off at how things are run here.

I would say the time frame most of our scouts have been here coincides with our lack of success.

 

[Oryx05]

Who's ready to get pumped by the rebuilt Storm tonight? Only shot at winning this one IMO is if all these guys stumble to play together early.

 

[bobber]

Who's ready to get pumped by the rebuilt Storm tonight? Only shot at winning this one IMO is if all these guys stumble to play together early.

My guess Oryx is they go with two lines. They put smaller forwards on the shoulders of bigger ones so they can see the other end of the ice. Some big guys on the Storm. Rangers are in tough this weekend.

 

[EvenSteven]

Not wanting to lose a player because they get called up to the NHL early is unbelievably STUPID and says all you need to know about our philosophy. I will take what Skinner and Landeskog did in their shortened period here or what Marner, Tkachuk etc did while in junior over anything our draft picks have done since. I just keep getting more and more pissed off at how things are run here.

I would say the time frame most of our scouts have been here coincides with our lack of success.

The thinking back in the day was, would you rather have the contribution of Rick Nash and his two years or Andre Benoit and his five years? Both 1st rounders from the same draft. Also, back in the day, Bert Templeton chose to take Daniel Tkaczuk first overall as opposed to Joe Thorton because he wanted the player for four years being Barrie was an extension team. I see some logic in this.

However, you're right about Pederson vs Skinner. It took until his fourth season to really become a factor on this team. Maybe his third. But none of his seasons came close to the caliber that either one of the two that Skinner provided.

My memory of Pederson will always be that he was the guy Spott wouldn't trade at the deadline when he could have brought us Austin Watson the one year and Alan Quine the next. Both years when John Gibson was our goalie. Those players would have put us over the top.

The reason Spott said we took Pederson in the first round was because we didn't have a second round pick that year and he knew that he would be gone by the third round. Dumb thinking if you ask me.

He should've taken the best player available with that first round pick and if he is gone by the time you picked in the third, then so be it. But better draft pick management would've made sure he had a second round pick somehow that year.

 

[EvenSteven]

Who's ready to get pumped by the rebuilt Storm tonight? Only shot at winning this one IMO is if all these guys stumble to play together early.

We weren't going to beat that Storm team tonight even before the trade deadline. Ditto the London Knights.

Tonight will be the first night the absence of Nick McHugh will be sorely missed.

 

[bobber]

Guest is out banged up. Arbor on left wing tonight.

 

[Billyjack]

well done MM, top 3 OA next year plus an extra to trade next year. Glad he didn't give them away.

 

[Coaches Coroner]

Not wanting to lose a player because they get called up to the NHL early is unbelievably STUPID and says all you need to know about our philosophy. I will take what Skinner and Landeskog did in their shortened period here or what Marner, Tkachuk etc did while in junior over anything our draft picks have done since. I just keep getting more and more pissed off at how things are run here.

I would say the time frame most of our scouts have been here coincides with our lack of success.

As I said that was Spotts philosophy, not necessarily ours now. Some OHL scouts thought (at the time of the OHL draft) Vuk could be an NHLer in his post draft year or 19 year old season and we took him anyway (when he wasn't planning to report to boot). Can't really get mad at current management for Spotts follies.

well done MM, top 3 OA next year plus an extra to trade next year. Glad he didn't give them away.

3 OAs and a throwaway imo. Hopefully we can do right by Richardson and find him a good landing spot.

 

[bobber]

New Ranger Rupoli debuts tonight.

 

[bobber]

As I said that was Spotts philosophy, not necessarily ours now. Some OHL scouts thought (at the time of the OHL draft) Vuk could be an NHLer in his post draft year or 19 year old season and we took him anyway (when he wasn't planning to report to boot). Can't really get mad at current management for Spotts follies.

3 OAs and a throwaway imo. Hopefully we can do right by Richardson and find him a good landing spot.

Brock Otten has Vuk dropping in draft rankings. Hopefully he can pick it up somewhat in the second half. I think he impressed last year riding shot gun with Stanley. Maybe the other way around. Nothing wrong with taking a flyer on some high end kids.

 

[Coaches Coroner]

Brock Otten has Vuk dropping in draft rankings. Hopefully he can pick it up somewhat in the second half. I think he impressed last year riding shot gun with Stanley. Maybe the other way around. Nothing wrong with taking a flyer on some high end kids.

I agree, I was just using that as an example to show that poster that I don't think we're still using Spotts "draft 4-5 year players over the highest end talent" strategy.

Even with a partner like Stanley, Vuk impressed I'd say. Very few 16 year olds can step into a top pairing and look like they belong, even with someone as good as Stanley. I think it's a huge transition for him though going from playing a part of a great top pairing and having to shoulder the load on his own (more or less) as a number 1 D.
I've liked what I've seen out of Vuk the past couple games, jumping into the offense with more confidence, making some more plays and getting shots through. I was skeptical that shortening his stick would make a difference, but perhaps it's helping his game to some extent.

 

[EvenSteven]

New Ranger Rupoli debuts tonight.

We picked him up for his size and willingness to stand up for teammates. Let's hope he doesn't disappoint. But having said that, lets also hope he doesn't think he has to do everything himself. It would be a little unfair.

 

[EvenSteven]

I agree, I was just using that as an example to show that poster that I don't think we're still using Spotts "draft 4-5 year players over the highest end talent" strategy.

Even with a partner like Stanley, Vuk impressed I'd say. Very few 16 year olds can step into a top pairing and look like they belong, even with someone as good as Stanley. I think it's a huge transition for him though going from playing a part of a great top pairing and having to shoulder the load on his own (more or less) as a number 1 D.
I've liked what I've seen out of Vuk the past couple games, jumping into the offense with more confidence, making some more plays and getting shots through. I was skeptical that shortening his stick would make a difference, but perhaps it's helping his game to some extent.

I believe the trading of Vallati and the Hall injury may have had a negative effect on Vukojevic's development. It was a little unfair to ask Vukojevic to carry the weight of being the #1 with just a few months experience in the league.

Surely there are scouts that recognize that and have Vukojevic in their back pocket as a player to take as a steal a bit later than he really should be drafted.

Speaking of Hall, what was the purpose of removing him from the roster? It's not like he had to make way for a third OA. Does this mean he's no longer a part of the team? I understand his season is done but if that is the case, it's unfortunate. It would have been nice to have him around as part of the team going forward

 

[Tim Wallach]

Nothing Brock Otten said about Vuk was untrue. His lack of offensive development and too-frequent turnovers have hindered him. Having said that, I still think he has all the tools to be a total gem. He has blips, but if a coach reins him in and gets him a little more active in the rush and engaged physically, he will be an absolute steal if he's picked 3rd round or lower. Some of the other kids ranked slightly higher on Brock's list don't have nearly the pro upside of Vuk.

 

[Gatorwah]

This organization has hit an devastating low. The once mighty Ranger brand is tarnished and we the dedicated fans have been leading an agonizing death. At crucial times like this it takes bold and decisive action - and to be clear its the Board of Directors that need to take action. And this to me is the crux of the issue - the board consists of individuals who lack the experience and conviction in making tough decisions. They need to clean house and bring in a new Chief Operating Officer or failing that sell the team to private interests. I'm sure this new ownership would more capably put a consistently competitive product on the ice, enthusiastic fans back into the arena and restore the Ranger brand back to its former proud self.