Discussion in 'OHL' started by EON, Jan 10, 2019.
Continued from: Kitchener Rangers 2018-19 Season Thread (Part 2)
I'll kick it off with a re-post:
It seemed like this year teams were trying to dial back on the ludicrous prices being paid. Aside from Niagara, no one was coughing up loads of high picks and blue chip young kids. Teams like Ottawa were refusing to give up roster players. I think all of that added up to teams like Kitchener holding onto their players.
I don't like that we did because in a year like this, I think you need to come away with at least one or two good future assets (2nd rounders or good 01/02s) and we didn't. In fact the cupboard is arguably less stocked than before. But if teams weren't willing to pay or kids weren't willing to go, it can stall the best laid plans. I just hope MM tried, because selling the fans on this identical roster next year is going to be tough.
Dull day but fair enough if MM had no compelling offers for what I presume the contenders only saw as depth guys. With very few exceptions, the transactions heavily favoured buyers & I’ll applaud George Burnett’s heroic-level moves to cast off primadonnas & plugs in favour of a whack of proven studs … wonder if GB’s resume was ever in the big stack purportedly on Stevie Wonders desk a couple times in recent years ? Should get even quieter in The Aud before long and the STH renewal package line likely continues to gets shorter (again)
The Rangers have 11 seconds and 8 thirds leading up to 2025. That is better than what we have seen in the past. Rangers use to give those seconds away and leave holes in the draft. My concern is more towards the draft and developing players. I think some drafted players are already capable of putting up numbers when they come into the league if the right ones are picked. Looking at the top rookies some have around 30 points.
Tim I think some contending teams like Ottawa and the Knights keep their young skilled assets and some of their second and third round picks in the cupboard. It bodes well going into the next season. Seems like a sound plan going forward.
It seems to me that had we tried to makes moves a little earlier on, when Niagara did the Robertson deal, we may have gotten fair value for our 99's. From the time of that trade to today, prices started to go down.
As far as this trade deadline goes regarding the Rangers and the future, this deadline has been a failure. No, it isn't anywhere near as bad as the trade deadline a few years ago where we stood pat, refusing to trade OA's like Akeson and Tipoff. These two were the among the top OA's in the league and Spott stood pat.
The saving grace is that none of the 99's that held value won't be guaranteed gone after this year save for the imports. Looks like we go into next season with four overage possibilities. More than likely though, Richardson will be the odd man out. Next year we need to go with Pfiel and a younger guy.
Meireles, Garreffa and Yantsis will be among the top OA's in the league next year. They'll likely bring more in return than they would have brought in the last 24 hours. (Good on MM for not moving them for below market value. Getting schooled on the McHugh deal was enough).
I expect a return of at least two 2nds and a 3rd for each based on the prices paid for high end OA's this year in a buyer's market. I don't see us contending next year so we need to sell on these guys, along with Damiani.
As far as the rest of the season goes, as others have said, I want to see our young players, the 16 and 17-year-olds, play a much more prominent role then they have thus far. This playing the crap out of our older players like what happened last night has to stop. Geez even Farwell and Pope said during the game they they thought it would make sense for McKee to allow the first PP unit to play the entire PP.
Moving forward, our young players need more development time than they have been getting. They need to see valuable minutes on the power play, the PK and late in games where the score is close. Winning the games should be secondary. And as far as goaltending goes, at worst Pfiel needs to start st least half the games remaining. I don't see Richardson being a part of this team after this year.
But we can't totally neglect the vets. Our returning 99's need the minutes to continue to pad their stats. Doing that would not allow their trade value to diminish. Last thing we need is to get less for them in trade in the off-season or into next season because a prospective trade partner points to their second half of the season as a negative.
Not to nitpick, but this contradicts what you have said the past 3-4 days in particular about moving these 99's. I recall you blasting a few posters about not wanting to move them unless the deal made sense saying offseason will be even less, but now its because the "value" will be better in the offseason? I don't get it....
I was in the same boat BTW, but I still think they should have been moved.
My "about face" came with the McHugh trade. It was an eye-opener for me. It was obvious that most teams were done buying once the Suzuki deal went down. At that point, it made no sense to take less than what we may have gotten a month ago.
If the three guys I mentioned above going into next season are at or above the pace that they've been at this year, we should get Salinitri type value for them in trade next year. Once all the buyers were almost finished buying this year, we weren't getting that value for these players this year.
Players refusing to report to a couple teams also threw a wrench into everything. Sudbury and Peterboro didn't do much buying at all but wanted to. If a couple of our players would've been their big purchases, we may have gotten decent value. But our guys reportedly wouldn't go there.
Note: I don't buy for one minute what the team is saying about never shopping a player, never asking a player if they would go to a certain team, or if any players refused to go to certain teams. They wouldn't want that kind of stuff publicized anyway. So we'll never really know for sure. Just ask Jeff Hicks about that. One of the nails in his coffin as the Ranger reporter for the Record was when he publicized the fact Ben Thomson wouldn't accept a trade as a 17-year-old.
Meireles should've been at or close to the same return that Neumann got for Kingston. If MM would've traded him for "whatever he could get" at this deadline, and it would've been a lot less than the Newman return, what would we have said? I could've accepted a little less, but the fallout would've been twice that of the fallout from the McHugh return.
It's a game. Taking meek returns is a fail. Not getting any returns is a fail. So which is the lesser fail? Only MM knows.
No doubt we'll have three high end OAs next year if they all come back but I see no evidence of much to be excited about. They have to get serious about goaltending and developing the kids. It's the only path out of this. The rest of this year will be painful to watch.
They better get an exciting player in the draft or the exodus from the seats could be heavy.
There is nothing to get exited about next year except for watching the development of our young players and the next trade deadline. Not much if you ask me. Certainly not enough to have fans rush to games on cold winter nights.
The rest of this year will be painful to watch knowing the outcome of games mean nothing. It'll be even worse if our young 01's and 02's don't ramp up their development.
MM was asking ridiculous prices or players in return that’s why no moves, teams tried
MoWanchuki and you know this how? OHLInsiders? Highly doubt any person posting on any forum here knows anything about what was being done in Kitchener or in any other GMs office. They might say something to a reporter of a local paper telling them they won't trade roster players (Ottawa) but that is about all the ordinary fan would hear. The rest comes from speculation or just made up IMO.
Not to mention "ridiculous" is a subjective term. There were posters visiting our board to tell us expecting multiple 2nds for Meireles was ridiculous. Really? Because there is absolutely no incentive to move a guy with 1.5 years left who is your top scorer, fastest skater, top special teams performer and leader if you're not getting at least that.
Meireles should be named captain now. Glad he is still here. Kid never stops moving. He would have fit in nicely on any contender and would have been a top skater on that squad.
I think it's idiotic going this long without a captain. No excuse for it.
Credit where credit is due though. I think the moves made that saw York leave and Stepien come in were very good. We got younger and it looks like Stepien is a player.
As a 2nd year GM I'd say the lesser of the two evils is not getting any returns. Spott was known to get swindled from time to time and when other GMs know they can push you over, they'll do their best to do so. Not sure this amounts to anything in reality, but I'd rather have a GM that refuses to be taken advantage of over a GM who gets more deals done but loses many of them.
I thought MM did a very good job last year, this year has been mediocre/below average (although from the eye test, I am liking the Stepien trade). Next year is a "show me" season that will start to tip the balances and tell us more about the quality of GM he truly is. Looking for a goalie via import draft would probably be my number 1 priority if I were him, now that the deadline is over. Get kicking the tires on european goalies to see who might be interested in coming to North America next season.
Absolutely agree. One of the very few who are consistently fun to watch and never take a shift off. (The other is now a Steelhead)
Totally agree here too. I actually hope we miss the playoffs. It means a top 4 pick and moves up at least 3 slots in the import draft. We need a high end import, a high end 1st rounder and a goalie to make next year at all worthwhile to watch.
Just noticed adjustments to our roster on the league website. Garreffa is listed as a forward now and Connor Hall has been unceremoniously removed.
What needs to happen now is MM needs to get out and start scouting midget players for the draft himself. Then he needs to get our scouts into meetings and start comparing notes just to see if they're on the same wavelength and evaluate the job they're doing. It's time to sort out what's going on at that level of our organization and make necessary adjustments. There's lots of internal matters to take care of to get this back on the rails.
I'm impressed with Attack management - parting with all those assets........and most of those players having been a big part of their team. Gutsy move. Like Windsor the year before, they took the hard medicine and in the process gave all the youngsters that extra icetime for the remainder of the season. This will pay dividends down the road. Even if the Rangers had a similar opportunity I doubt they would do it. They may part with a few, but like "found money" they wouldn't be able to resist spending some of it (that is, wasting some of it) right away......referring to the Paterson deal of course. Still waiting for the management of other teams to follow that blueprint
This is exactly what I said would happen, MM would ticker and he did. But I don't think the real problem lies with him, even though I would like him gone. I just don't think our 99 born players are that good. Garreffa is gifted offensively, yes, but he's a defensive liability. Don't understand why he wants to play defense when he's -19. Yantsis has a good shot but hes not quick enough, etc. They should have been gone before McHuge, who I believe is a better overall player than either of them. This organization needs a George Burrnet type of GM. People may say I am negative more than positive, but he did some great things over in Guelph and he has strengthen their team at the deadline. Why would you hire an inexperience GM in the first place, you can avoid his first couple of years of personal maturity by getting someone like a George Burnett who will take you to your destination more quickly than a rookie GM.
If Mckee isn't fired by the end of the season I would be surprised. Second, if the team doesn't show improvement over the rest of the season and into next season by Xmas, MM should be gone and that's being generous. I am a new fan from London having lived there. Kitchener has a great pedigree in hockey, you should honor it by not being satisfied with the present and dont hesitate to rebuild your coaching staff and management. Season ticket holders have a voting share in this organization, I say use it.
For me one thing stood out at the deadline. Our drafting. Our 99s were not sought after like other teams were. We didn't have players who perform as highly. Might it be time to make some changes in that department? I don't think MM has completely made his mark on the team yet and maybe this is his next area for making changes. We simply have to draft better and smarter. Our players need to make a bigger impact. Owen Sound drafted better than we did and developed better than we did. They were able to sell their assets and get an amazing return. We sold one asset and got a 3rd, 4th and 8th round picks.
I'm still wondering about the addition of Dennis Wideman to the coaching staff. It just seemed to be more of a move of convenience than a selection of someone who could develope a player. I recall him mentioning that he was surprised at how much work coaching is. Would he not have been aware of the work his NHL coaches did in breaking down video, teaching systems, adjusting systems, strategizing??
Moves need to be made to get us back to a competitive level. It starts with the draft and moves on to the development of those drafted. We have to do better.
I agree with your assessment on Garreffa,Yantis and McHugh.
I agree George Burnett had a great trade deadline - the best by far imo. But he is far from the poster boy for success. The rules for trading draft picks changed things this year imo. Did Burnett read it correctly or just luck out?
MM needs to evaluate coaching and scouting and hopefully fix it. That said I don't think McKee is going anywhere.
Kitchener has had some pockets of success and some extended periods of no success (to put it kindly). During our successful periods a strong coach/GM personality was hired and left to do his thing. Ed Bush in the 70s, Orv Tessier in the 80s ( followed by Joe Crozier and Tom Barrett). We had some success under Joe MacDonnel in the 90s. I always thought he was a good talent evaluator and he has proven that as he went on to be a successful NHL scout. Then Peter DeBoer rescued us in the early 2000s . That brings us to where we are today. DeBoer was brought in because seats were empty. Now seats are still for the most part full.
I mean, OS made a lot of good moves...but I doubt you or anyone else would be complimenting the Rangers if they gave up players of Suzuki and Durzi's calibre for that pittance. I wouldn't.
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