Post-Game Talk: Kings @ Sens Dec. 11. Phillips Falls A Lot Edition

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

Forward Lines by Ice Time

Ryan (21:36) Zbad (20:02) Stone (19:07)

Hoffman (18:51) Turris (18:56) Condra (15:43)

Chiasson (15:42) Lazar (14:23)

Greening (9:13) Legwand (10:13 --> only 6:05 ES TOI) Smith (9:40)

Neil (2:49) - injured

I hope Smith isn't confused about his role anymore.

The icetime distribution showed too. If the naysayers can't see how that was a proper improvement well that's their problem.

Agreed. It showed wonderfully. Ryan was better player as game progressed and the better players were showing why they're the better players.

how about we get the actual picture from the canon camera and take a look at it.

LOOOOOL, was thinking the same.

 

[Savannah Skunk]

The best mechanic in the world cannot turn a Lada into a Ferrari.

Haha! Ever been to Addis Ababa, the taxi drivers there think their Lada's are...

 

[MiscBrah]

Anyone else notice that sick rush by Lazar in the 3rd?

The guy just took off and blew by both teams. I didn't know he was that fast!

 

[Quo]

Are we talking about trades? Even if you're not on the same page as far as the "we don't know what was offered to us that we didn't take/ we don't know the trades that fell apart" thing (which I still believe is something you have to consider), here are some good examples of stuff that did happen:

Montreal got PA Parenteau for essentially nothing.
Chicago got Versteeg back at half price, for essentially nothing in return.
Hurricanes got Sekera for essentially nothing.
Penguins got Jussi Jokinen at half price for essentially nothing.
We weren't in on Bouwmeester because of salary.
Leafs got JVR for essentially nothing.
Phoenix got Z. Michalek for basically nothing.

We don't make any of those trades, because salary. All of those guys make us a better team, right now... and with the exception of Bouwmeester, all could have been had for an absolute song, provided you were ok with the salary coming back.

Even granting that we had the wherewithal or even the interest to pull these deals off, with the exception of Parenteau, you are reaching into the distant past to fill holes we have now that we didn't necessarily have then. Could it not be that these deals were not made because they were deemed frivolous or (in Bouwmeesters case) too steep a price in non-monetary assets?

At this point, you can criticize this team for failing in its stated objective of finding superior value given the seemingly steep drop-off of some of the veterans that they've invested in to help in our transition. We gave money to the wrong people. What was to stop them from not re-signing Michalek and instead going after another $4m dollar player other than the fact that they believed that Michalek was the best use of that $4m?

Ok, let's then focus on what we do know.

Since the start of the cap era, there has been only one team who was at the bottom of the league in spending and still made the playoffs.

One.

That team is the 06-07 Penguins, who had Crosby, Malkin, and Fleury looked up on ELC deals that were each under a million. The total cost of those three contracts was $2.83 MM. That Pens team was blown out 4-1 in the first round of the playoffs.

That works out to 1 playoff appearance leading to a total of 1 playoff game won over the past 9 seasons. The results were similar pre-cap as well, although one bottom spending Minnesota Wild made a run for a couple of rounds in the early 2000s.

Is that tangible enough for you?

Or were all of those teams simply not trying to win, and no players/trades were available to them?

Teams that do not spend do not acquire good players and end up sucking. It all there if you look back at what happened to bottom spending teams in the past. The thought that we are somehow different, and that our situation as a bottom spending team is different from every previous bottom spending team, is nonsensical to put it very, very mildly.

I don't really dispute any of this but remain confused as to why you (or management or anyone for that matter) expects outstanding results this year after shortly exiting a rebuild and having the most inexperienced roster in the league. I look at a roster full of unrealized promise, of players that we can build a good foundation with and who I enjoy watching develop. Players whom we will eventually have to shell out for...or not, depends. Some will reach their potential, some won't. Reassess at the appropriate time.

All you seem to see is some magical dollar figure that we must have right now in order to contend right now. This seems silly to me and not really worth lathering myself into a rage over after every loss, spouting off "you get what you pay for" like some embittered and lonely yogi on a mountain top praying for rain.

This is who we are. We have been here before as an organization. This is not groundbreaking new territory unless you count the apparent hubris of management in expecting the current team to be anything approaching consistent at this point in time.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

Anyone else notice that sick rush by Lazar in the 3rd?

The guy just took off and blew by both teams. I didn't know he was that fast!

He's been doing that more often lately.

Imagine him when he gets better and in the playoffs.

Kid could be a Bergeron/Toews.

 

[MiscBrah]

Other interesting stats from today's game

DEF Zone FO

Zbad 5/6

Turris 5/10

Lazar 1/1

Smith 0/2

Legwand 0/3

Overall FO

Zbad 10/19

Turris 10/20

Legwand 2/5

Lazar 3/8

Smith 1/8

We got crushed in the neutral zone FO's 6/20. Hard to win on home ice when you're losing that many draws.

 

[BigBush*]

Anyone else notice that sick rush by Lazar in the 3rd?

The guy just took off and blew by both teams. I didn't know he was that fast!

Kids got all the tools. Can't wait until he puts it all together. And when he doesn't fall so much

 

[supsens]

I don't mind that the big rig fell down, it happens, it isn't like the meant to. His partner laying down and going for a swim by choice is a bigger issue for me

 

[Korpse]

Really liked the pinching by the D, its something MacLean put an emphasis on in his first two years but got away from. It worked great tonight, also nice to see a strong fore check. Both changes helped interrupt the oppositions breakout, resulting in the team having the puck more. We have some really good players on the fore check and it was a shame to see many of them essentially neutered in that aspect of the game. I thought it was a good game despite the result, some puck luck and the puck ended up behind Anderson.

 

[Korpse]

I don't mind that the big rig fell down, it happens, it isn't like the meant to. His partner laying down and going for a swim by choice is a bigger issue for me

Also Turris could have done more on that play.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Kids got all the tools. Can't wait until he puts it all together. And when he doesn't fall so much

It's still very, very early but it sounds like almost everyone here expects him to become a scorer

I don't see it. I think he tops out as a Jordan Staal at best

 

[Super Cake]

It sucks to think that we could have at least gotten a point out of this game.

But it is what it is. This team really needs to stop with the defensive gaffes.

And Phillips really needs to either retire or force the coach into putting him in a position he is actually able to play in. He just cannot handle being on the 1st pairing.

 

[albator71]

I feel like bottoming out and get high end talent in the draft is the best way to go.

We are not a good team. We have poor possession and shots againsts stats, and the main reason we won a lot of the games we did was due to Anderson and Lehner.

Yeah well if we pick 1st overall we better no make a mistake a la Alanxandre Daigle because we need one hell of a player to make this team good again, I'm talking a Crosby type player.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

Yeah well if we pick 1st overall we better no make a mistake a la Alanxandre Daigle because we need one hell of a player to make this team good again, I'm talking a Crosby type player.

Lol, if we get Crosby type player we'll be favorites as soon as next year.

If we get a Kopitar, Backstrom or Giroux thats still wayy more than enough which is the caliber of player I'm hoping for if we get top 5-10 pick.

 

[Suiteness]

The best mechanic in the world cannot turn a Lada into a Ferrari.

Jacques Martin had his teams competing for Divisional titles with a shoe string budget, Lalime between the pipes and a #1 center that was of Radek Bonk/ Todd White caliber. This was pre-salary cap era when we were schooling teams that had double our payroll.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Lol, if we get Crosby type player we'll be favorites as soon as next year.

If we get a Kopitar, Backstrom or Giroux thats still wayy more than enough which is the caliber of player I'm hoping for if we get top 5-10 pick.

Yeah. a Mcdavid and solid goaltending puts us in contention for the east next year.

IFIIIIIIFFFFFFFIIIIIIFFFF we get Mcdavid, I would honestly chain Puempel to his wing for the next 15 years.

I wonder if Konecny can be this years Giroux... drafted looking like a 9 year old... bulks up and grows.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Jacques Martin had his teams competing for Divisional titles with a shoe string budget, Lalime between the pipes and a #1 center that was of Radek Bonk/ Todd White caliber. This was pre-salary cap era when we were schooling teams that had double our payroll.

Contracts were as big back then though... yeah we didn't have dynamic centers... but we had Alfie and Hossa on two different lines. and our defence was something else.. and Martin had us playing defensive hockey.. which I think wouldn't suit this sens team too terribly.

 

[Upgrayedd]

Damn decent effort from the guys i guess but a struggling LA team comes into Ottawa and plays a sleepy game and walks away with a fairly easy 5-3 win, been pretty standard for the last 3-5 years though....just shows you truly how far off this team is even when they are working hard it just takes a touch of skill and luck to beat them especially when virtually every Ottawa makes on the ice ends up in the back of the net.

Hope we can grab a win in 1 of the two games against Buffalo....could make for another salty christmas in the capital

 

[Alex1234]

If beil goes on IR

Do pageau get to come up

 

[Benjamin]

If beil goes on IR

Do pageau get to come up

Doubt it. Just expect a lot of Greening.

 

[Rand0m]

1st game under a new coach against a strong team and a hot goalie. This team did very well and if it wasn't for Quick masking a couple amazing saved this game could have been over in the first.

It took a questionable call on Karlsson for the Kings to get their first SOG of the game mid-way through the first.

They definitely made some mistakes but I like what I was hearing from the announcers that the coach said that as of after this game, they won't show any game tape from the MacLean days. This game was perfect to showcase what's right and what's wrong wth the team. It'll be a great teaching tool and I believe we'll see improvements in short time.

 

[ChocolateLeclaire]

Doubt it. Just expect a lot of Greening.

Don't worry, Murray has been working on a trade...since July...

 

[Micklebot]

Ok, let's then focus on what we do know.

Since the start of the cap era, there has been only one team who was at the bottom of the league in spending and still made the playoffs.

One.

That team is the 06-07 Penguins, who had Crosby, Malkin, and Fleury looked up on ELC deals that were each under a million. The total cost of those three contracts was $2.83 MM. That Pens team was blown out 4-1 in the first round of the playoffs.

That works out to 1 playoff appearance leading to a total of 1 playoff game won over the past 9 seasons. The results were similar pre-cap as well, although one bottom spending Minnesota Wild made a run for a couple of rounds in the early 2000s.

Is that tangible enough for you?

Or were all of those teams simply not trying to win, and no players/trades were available to them?

Teams that do not spend do not acquire good players and end up sucking. It all there if you look back at what happened to bottom spending teams in the past. The thought that we are somehow different, and that our situation as a bottom spending team is different from every previous bottom spending team, is nonsensical to put it very, very mildly.

Just for the sake of argument;

A team at or near the bottom in spending at the deadline who is poised to make the playoffs often adds salary around the deadline, while teams well outside of the playoffs dump salary. I think it's disingenuous to compare end of year cap hits of teams that made the playoffs to expected results going into the season because how they do as the season goes on influences the payroll at then end of the season. If Calgary falls well out of the playoff pictire, maybe they unload Hudler and Wideman, on the other hand, if they continue to play well and lock up a playoff spot, maybe they add an available player or two like Staal, or Semin.





All that said, the point stands that you are certainly at a disadvantage playing with the lowest payroll.

 

[operasen]

Unless we win the lottery, we will not draft in the top 4. Edmonton & Carolina have the top two worst and will not be getting better. Arizona & Buffalo should get the next two, maybe throw in Columbus before we draft.

The idea of Killington or Roy if we go D or Zacha, Strome at the centre position (we need size here, so I discount Marner) are still great additions.

Of the bunch, Strome stands out most I think as a need close to our slot.

But a McDavid would be amazing. Maybe we can get the same guy to load the balls into the machine as when Crosby went to the Pens...

 

[Upgrayedd]

Unless we win the lottery, we will not draft in the top 4. Edmonton & Carolina have the top two worst and will not be getting better. Arizona & Buffalo should get the next two, maybe throw in Columbus before we draft.

The idea of Killington or Roy if we go D or Zacha, Strome at the centre position (we need size here, so I discount Marner) are still great additions.

Of the bunch, Strome stands out most I think as a need close to our slot.

But a McDavid would be amazing. Maybe we can get the same guy to load the balls into the machine as when Crosby went to the Pens...

And have CM goto Arizona...how would that help us lol