Post-Game Talk: Kings @ Sens Dec. 11. Phillips Falls A Lot Edition

[HSF]

ya methot puts us in a weird position

we can't really go out and get someone else without knowing what to do with methot since he is a ufa and his injury is sketchy

 

[HavlatMach9]

It was also mentioned on the radio this morning how difficult it must be for a Karlsson defence partner to have to skate all the way across the ice to cover for him then be stuck in their own end for a while before getting off & how gassed they must be.

a forward is supposed to cover for him, not his partner, but i guess that's on karlsson because he can notice if a forward is in a position to cover for him

 

[DylanSensFan]

Karlsson should play with Cowen until the two meld as a pair. Enough pissing around. Anyone here has a problem with the possibility of mistakes? Take a look at our current options. Methot will likely go on long term IR again soon, and then have to look at surgery. He is done for this season and we likely will not have him next season.

 

[Holdurbreathe]

Weber looked like hot garbage without Suter a few years back

It's easy to forget how young Karlsson is

I'm of the mind that a reliable partner will get him to relax a bit, right now he's probably acutely aware of how any **** up on his part is going to be costly but, at the same time, he's an instinctive player, not cerebral: he's the kind of player who needs to be at ease. This might change as he matures of course.

Playing with Phillips or Boro just isn't working and evne once he does get a competent partner, it will still take a while for him to get comfortable

I think management needs to start looking at getting him someone soon because Methot cannot be relied upon. That's if the team wants to make the playoffs. If not might as well see how the year plays out and gain more experience but we are not going anywhere with Phillips or Boro on the top pair, it ain't happening.

Can't disagree it would be nice if Murray could find a top pairing guy in the near term, but extremely unlikely.

What Murray might like to move isn't going to bring back a top pairing guy, no way no how.

Besides top D-men aren't usually available via trade even if Murray was willing to move one or two of the young players.

IMO this team isn't going to make the playoff, too many holes and most of them in the forward ranks.

 

[HSF]

Karlsson should play with Cowen until the two meld as a pair. Enough pissing around. Anyone here has a problem with the possibility of mistakes? Take a look at our current options. Methot will likely go on long term IR again soon, and then have to look at surgery. He is done for this season and we likely will not have him next season.

we tried cowen and karlsson and it was not pretty

it seems like cowen and ceci is decent

 

[HSF]

Can't disagree it would be nice if Murray could find a top pairing guy in the near term, but extremely unlikely.

What Murray might like to move isn't going to bring back a top pairing guy, no way no how.

Besides top D-men aren't usually available via trade even if Murray was willing to move one or two of the young players.

IMO this team isn't going to make the playoff, too many holes and most of them in the forward ranks.

pretty much this

defensemen are expensive especially ones who can play on a top pairing

 

[DylanSensFan]

we tried cowen and karlsson and it was not pretty

it seems like cowen and ceci is decent

Again, READ WHAT I WROTE. Was not pretty? Is Phillips currently Pretty with Karlsson? Cowen/Karlsson Phillips/Ceci. Be done with it.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Can't disagree it would be nice if Murray could find a top pairing guy in the near term, but extremely unlikely.

What Murray might like to move isn't going to bring back a top pairing guy, no way no how.

Besides top D-men aren't usually available via trade even if Murray was willing to move one or two of the young players.

IMO this team isn't going to make the playoff, too many holes and most of them in the forward ranks.

Fair enough but I'm having serious doubts about Methot's long term viability if his back is this messed up

I doubt we have anyone in the system that could take over his spot in the near future

I'm thinking it might be time to look at moving some players we'd maybe rather not to deal with this issue

 

[DylanSensFan]

Fair enough but I'm having serious doubts about Methot's long term viability if his back is this messed up

I doubt we have anyone in the system we could want to take over his spot too

I'm thinking it might be time to look at moving some players we'd maybe rather not to deal with this issue

Move Methot, Wiercioch out for what ever we can get. Bring up Claesson and put him on the second line with Ceci, Move Cowen up with Karlsson, Let Phillips and Boro fight it out for third line defensive minutes on the left side.

 

[Holdurbreathe]

Karlsson should play with Cowen until the two meld as a pair. Enough pissing around. Anyone here has a problem with the possibility of mistakes? Take a look at our current options. Methot will likely go on long term IR again soon, and then have to look at surgery. He is done for this season and we likely will not have him next season.

Problem with throwing Cowen into the fire is it might be terrible for his continued development.

I am sure that was/is the long term plan, an EK-JC pairing.

However throwing young D into first pairing responsibilities before they are ready potentially assures failure.

The best solution is to find help via the trade route, but what team gives up top pairing capable Dmen for spare parts or potential?

If Methot is gone for long stints or even the season as you suggest, then be prepared to see Phillips as EK partner for most of the remaining games.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Move Methot, Wiercioch out for what ever we can get. Bring up Claesson and put him on the second line with Ceci, Move Cowen up with Karlsson, Let Phillips and Boro fight it out for third line defensive minutes on the left side.

I'm not sure I want to mess with Cowen-Ceci just yet

It's a shame Zbynek Michalek is a righty because I'd target him in a trade and he might not cost a ton to get

 

[Cosmix]

I thought we played very well tonight. Quick was outstanding in goal; that's the reason we lost IMO.

Phillips' ice-time actually decreased compared to the past few games. 17 minutes, given the fact that Cowen got 15 minutes despite his 7 minutes worth of penalties is encouraging. Basically the ice-time was spread evenly among the LDs. This is encouraging. Hopefully means Phillips gets gradually phased out.

Cowen was a monster; Boro was his usual solid self; our bottom 6 played really well. Again, encouraging.

I have a feeling if they stick to this there's still a chance for a turnaround. And I know this makes me sound like Jim Carrey.

I agree with you. Some positive signs were there. Stronger faster forecheck did work better. Ceci's coverage error on PP gave Kopitar a free breakaway to the goal.

 

[Cosmix]

Good 1st. Mental breakdowns leading to goals.

standard sens.

He's got two more years after this at $4 million so I'd say it's pretty darn bad considering he already plays like a fringe third liner.

It is a bad contract because it is at least $2m more than it should be, and that means we could have $2+M to spend on a better 1st or 2nd line center or top 4 Dman.

 

[DylanSensFan]

Problem with throwing Cowen into the fire is it might be terrible for his continued development.

I am sure that was/is the long term plan, an EK-JC pairing.

However throwing young D into first pairing responsibilities before they are ready potentially assures failure.

The best solution is to find help via the trade route, but what team gives up top pairing capable Dmen for spare parts or potential?

If Methot is gone for long stints or even the season as you suggest, then be prepared to see Phillips as EK partner for most of the remaining games.

Chicago had to do it with Seabrook and Keith. Doughty was thrown into the fire as well. Right now nobody is willing to go through the failure as fans. This has nothing to do with the players. We are afraid of being fans of a losing team, we are afraid of seeing our team make mistakes and falter. They are young... Cowen will not be harmed by playing with Karlsson. Not if the coach is good enough to keep them mentally aware. To have them not dwell on the negatives and look at the positives. The reality is, we do not have any other options than Cowen. This team is going to make mistakes either way. But Cowen will develop more, with more minutes than Phillips ever will.

It is funny, we want our forward prospects to have more minutes to develop when they show potential, but we want to hold those minutes from our Defenders? Ceci can hold the fort on the second line as a right winger, we need a left winger with him, whether Phillips or Boro. Karlsson needs a defender that can move the puck, who is big and ugly on defense... that is Cowen.

 

[Holdurbreathe]

we tried cowen and karlsson and it was not pretty

it seems like cowen and ceci is decent

They have been a god pairing, but Ceci is significantly more predictable and carries a bigger part of the load in the D-Zone than EK presently does.

Now if EK removed some of the risk in his game, Cowen might be the answer, if not the team would just be setting Cowen up to fail IMO.

 

[aragorn]

a forward is supposed to cover for him, not his partner, but i guess that's on karlsson because he can notice if a forward is in a position to cover for him

We have seen it all yr the other defence partner trying to get back to defend against a Karlsson giveaway, the forwards are usually ahead of the play. Both Ceci & Phillips had to do it last night & Cowen used to get caught not being able to get back fast enough when he was partnered with Karlsson. Methot seems to be the best at it for Karlsson but even he had problems last yr. I'm thinking maybe Claesson might be a good partner for Karlsson since he is a good skating smart defensive defenceman who doesn't seem to panic in his own end & has a good first pass to get the puck out of the zone.

They have been a god pairing, but Ceci is significantly more predictable and carries a bigger part of the load in the D-Zone than EK presently does.

Now if EK removed some of the risk in his game, Cowen might be the answer, if not the team would just be setting Cowen up to fail IMO.

This is exactly what I said when Cowen was partnered with Karlsson & everyone was crapping on Cowen for the goals against. Cowen needs a safer partner to play with, he just isn't good enough to react fast enough to all of Karlsson's miscues & Ceci plays a much safer game & is a much better dependable partner for Cowen.

 

[Cosmix]

Anyone else notice that sick rush by Lazar in the 3rd?

The guy just took off and blew by both teams. I didn't know he was that fast!

Yes, I saw it and said who the hxxx is that? Twas Lazar!

 

[Holdurbreathe]

Chicago had to do it with Seabrook and Keith. Doughty was thrown into the fire as well. Right now nobody is willing to go through the failure as fans. This has nothing to do with the players. We are afraid of being fans of a losing team, we are afraid of seeing our team make mistakes and falter. They are young... Cowen will not be harmed by playing with Karlsson. Not if the coach is good enough to keep them mentally aware. To have them not dwell on the negatives and look at the positives. The reality is, we do not have any other options than Cowen. This team is going to make mistakes either way. But Cowen will develop more, with more minutes than Phillips ever will.

It is funny, we want our forward prospects to have more minutes to develop when they show potential, but we want to hold those minutes from our Defenders? Ceci can hold the fort on the second line as a right winger, we need a left winger with him, whether Phillips or Boro. Karlsson needs a defender that can move the puck, who is big and ugly on defense... that is Cowen.

I don't disagree with anything you are saying.

However I do believe confidence is everything at the top professional level and its hard to find but easy to lose.

Putting a young guy with the darling of the fans and media that is likely be blamed for any failing the pairings encounter is a potential confidence crusher.

I suppose it could be looked at as high risk/high reward.

 

[Cosmix]

He played Greening?!!

Cameron really has few options roster wise with MacArthur's illness, Michalek on IR and Methot's issue.

While I would expect subtle changes in play, until Murray can find a way to rid the team of 3 or 4 guys and get some new blood I doubt much will change.

IMO Smith, Michalek, Legwand, and even Neil just are providing much other than filling up the 4th line.

Tim Murray said it best, veterans are great to have on a young team but they have to be able to play.

Unfortunately the Sens veterans really aren't contributing much on the ice even if they are great mentors.

LOL!

The one thing I noticed was a far faster and more aggressive forecheck, whoch led to turnovers and more puck posession in the Ozone. That was about all that was new that I saw.

 

[MiscBrah]

imo the difference between Karlsson playing with Phillips or Boro and Karlsson playing with Methot (or Kuba back in the day) was he could trust his partner to make a pass or skate the puck out, and the opposition had to respect that. When Karlsson plays with Phillips, the forecheckers can pressure Karlsson much harder.

Karlsson needs to adapt better to playing with those guys, that's on him for sure. That said, with this team being offensively starved, I'm sure he feels he needs to create more offense now than ever before. And that really is the problem; we are asking him to create offense at a higher rate while increasing the pressure on him by limiting his options. It's not that he's playing fine but his partners suck, it's that expectations on him rise because his partner sucks, and the rest of the team can't create enough offense without him.

I think we would probably be ok with Karlsson playing with a guy like Phillips or Boro if we just told him not to worry about offense, just play D and wait for the PP. He could probaly be an even player, but we're not asking that of him, we're asking him to create offense on his own, while handicaped by his partner.

My only problem with this is he is not really creating more offense.

Now that the disappointment of losing is gone, I can rationally say I was really happy with how we played last night. Kings only had 1 shot more than us (good considering some weird penalties called against us) and the score was essentially 4-3 if you don't count the empty netter. Considering they were the defending champs I'm really impressed. We probably win last night againt any other team besides LA or Chicago. Not to mention player usage was SO much better.

And the score is 3-3 if you take the other Kings goal! We basically tied the defending SC champions!

The Kings weren't playing close to their potential. Looked like they were asleep and they still beat us.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

LOL!

The one thing I noticed was a far faster and more aggressive forecheck, whoch led to turnovers and more puck posession in the Ozone. That was about all that was new that I saw.

Well he did say that the system didn't really change that much.