Post-Game Talk: Kings @ Sens Dec. 11. Phillips Falls A Lot Edition

Status
Not open for further replies.

ChocolateLeclaire

Registered User
Jan 12, 2010
12,042
2
Ottawa, Canada
who should we spend money on?

i am tired of the budget argument when we don't have enough talent to be a cap team. To get that talent you need to trade talent ie bobby ryan deal or you draft them ie karlsson

I wish the team had some guy whose job it was to try and make the team better via free agency or taking in salary via a trade.

When you have the lowest payroll in the league and you can't even make one roster move to improve a team you believe is a playoff team, believing that the budget isn't an issue is delusional.
 

SilverSeven

Registered User
Apr 16, 2007
21,503
1
Ottawa, Ontario
looks like a goal to me
B4nkjfxIgAApADb.jpg
 

HavlatMach9

streamable 3rah1
Mar 17, 2011
13,445
394
Ottawa
doesn't look like a goal in that picture, the puck is being held against the side of the post that faces the goal line, so it hasn't crossed.
 

HSF

Registered User
Sep 3, 2008
26,094
7,620
I wish the team had some guy whose job it was to try and make the team better via free agency or taking in salary via a trade.

When you have the lowest payroll in the league and you can't even make one roster move to improve a team you believe is a playoff team, believing that the budget isn't an issue is delusional.

free agency is a death wish these days and the top players generally won't come here and the fact that there are no young stars avaliable. We almost got clarkson i guess...

In terms of taking on bad contracts? well the most you will get with that is a prospect or a pick you wont get anything that helps you now
 

MiscBrah

Registered User
Mar 16, 2012
3,551
548
Forward Lines by Ice Time

Ryan (21:36) Zbad (20:02) Stone (19:07)

Hoffman (18:51) Turris (18:56) Condra (15:43)

Chiasson (15:42) Lazar (14:23)

Greening (9:13) Legwand (10:13 --> only 6:05 ES TOI) Smith (9:40)

Neil (2:49) - injured

I hope Smith isn't confused about his role anymore.
 

Benjamin

Differently Financed
Jun 14, 2010
31,118
438
yes
Forward Lines by Ice Time

Ryan (21:36) Zbad (20:02) Stone (19:07)

Hoffman (18:51) Turris (18:56) Condra (15:43)

Chiasson (15:42) Lazar (14:23)

Greening (9:13) Legwand (10:13 --> only 6:05 ES TOI) Smith (9:40)

Neil (2:49) - injured

I hope Smith isn't confused about his role anymore.
So much better.
 
Nov 16, 2007
15,705
2
in your head
Forward Lines by Ice Time

Ryan (21:36) Zbad (20:02) Stone (19:07)

Hoffman (18:51) Turris (18:56) Condra (15:43)

Chiasson (15:42) Lazar (14:23)

Greening (9:13) Legwand (10:13 --> only 6:05 ES TOI) Smith (9:40)

Neil (2:49) - injured

I hope Smith isn't confused about his role anymore.

Didn't get to see the game, but i like this. A lot.
 

BigRig4

Registered User
Feb 22, 2014
3,085
1,118
Our forwards don't have problems when used properly, pretty sure the last few games have proven that. Upgrade our league worst defenxe and we makes playoffs next year.
 

Burrowsaurus

Registered User
Mar 20, 2013
42,559
16,162
1) Signing bad UFAs is not the only way a team spends money.


2) you can apply "making bad decisions" across the board, not just with UFAs

For instance, here's the drafting version:
"ya, I guess we should have drafted Scott Glennie or Luke Schenn, that would have helped"

And here's the coach version:
"Ya, I guess we should have signed Dallas Eakins or Adam Oates, that would have helped"

And here's the Bridge Contract version:
"Ya, we should have played hardball with Subban and force him to take a low-paying, low-term bridge contract, there's no way that can backfire on us"

And here's the trade version:
"Ya, we should have traded Filip Forsberg for Martin Erat, that would have helped"



I mean... if you want to find negative examples of ways to build a team, you can find them in every possible way, shape and form. It's cherry picking to just use Bolland or Gionta as examples.

True say. People will find the worst possible version of your idea to demonstrate that it is in fact, a bad idea.
 

Pierre from Orleans

Registered User
May 9, 2007
26,537
18,301
Ice time distribution for the forwards look good. Need to fix the ice time allotted to defense.

I'm torn between winning games and getting a really good draft pick for the future
 

Do Make Say Think

& Yet & Yet
Jun 26, 2007
51,211
9,963
I will have to watch the next game.

The team played well in general

Ceci completely messed up his coverage on the PK seconds after we tied at two with a shorty and Phillips fell down soon after to let the Kings back in and so a lot of people on here are losing their ****

I was pleased with the effort and the better defensive play

Unsurprisingly, we are still prone to mental breakdowns and the LA Kings make you pay when they happen
 

Quo

...
Mar 22, 2012
7,524
2
Hamsterdam
1) Signing bad UFAs is not the only way a team spends money.


2) you can apply "making bad decisions" across the board, not just with UFAs

For instance, here's the drafting version:
"ya, I guess we should have drafted Scott Glennie or Luke Schenn, that would have helped"

And here's the coach version:
"Ya, I guess we should have signed Dallas Eakins or Adam Oates, that would have helped"

And here's the Bridge Contract version:
"Ya, we should have played hardball with Subban and force him to take a low-paying, low-term bridge contract, there's no way that can backfire on us"

And here's the trade version:
"Ya, we should have traded Filip Forsberg for Martin Erat, that would have helped"



I mean... if you want to find negative examples of ways to build a team, you can find them in every possible way, shape and form. It's cherry picking to just use Bolland or Gionta as examples.



Yet, I'm not seeing a tremendous range of good examples that immediately apply to our situation. Oh, right, just because we can't see them, doesn't mean they aren't there.
 

MiscBrah

Registered User
Mar 16, 2012
3,551
548

L'Aveuglette

つ ◕_◕ ༽つ
Jan 8, 2007
47,895
19,887
Montreal
Forward Lines by Ice Time

Ryan (21:36) Zbad (20:02) Stone (19:07)

Hoffman (18:51) Turris (18:56) Condra (15:43)

Chiasson (15:42) Lazar (14:23)

Greening (9:13) Legwand (10:13 --> only 6:05 ES TOI) Smith (9:40)

Neil (2:49) - injured

I hope Smith isn't confused about his role anymore.

The icetime distribution showed too. If the naysayers can't see how that was a proper improvement well that's their problem.
 

BonkTastic

ಠ_ಠ
Nov 9, 2010
30,901
10,092
Parts Unknown
Yet, I'm not seeing a tremendous range of good examples that immediately apply to our situation. Oh, right, just because we can't see them, doesn't mean they aren't there.

Are we talking about trades? Even if you're not on the same page as far as the "we don't know what was offered to us that we didn't take/ we don't know the trades that fell apart" thing (which I still believe is something you have to consider), here are some good examples of stuff that did happen:

Montreal got PA Parenteau for essentially nothing.
Chicago got Versteeg back at half price, for essentially nothing in return.
Hurricanes got Sekera for essentially nothing.
Penguins got Jussi Jokinen at half price for essentially nothing.
We weren't in on Bouwmeester because of salary.
Leafs got JVR for essentially nothing.
Phoenix got Z. Michalek for basically nothing.

We don't make any of those trades, because salary. All of those guys make us a better team, right now... and with the exception of Bouwmeester, all could have been had for an absolute song, provided you were ok with the salary coming back.
 

Slack

everything's fine?
Apr 27, 2012
3,692
466
J244qJr.gif


Good effort tonight, mixed with a few really horrifying mental mistakes.
 

StefanW

Registered User
Mar 13, 2013
6,286
0
Ottawa
www.storiesnumberstell.com
Yet, I'm not seeing a tremendous range of good examples that immediately apply to our situation. Oh, right, just because we can't see them, doesn't mean they aren't there.

Ok, let's then focus on what we do know.

Since the start of the cap era, there has been only one team who was at the bottom of the league in spending and still made the playoffs.

One.

That team is the 06-07 Penguins, who had Crosby, Malkin, and Fleury looked up on ELC deals that were each under a million. The total cost of those three contracts was $2.83 MM. That Pens team was blown out 4-1 in the first round of the playoffs.

That works out to 1 playoff appearance leading to a total of 1 playoff game won over the past 9 seasons. The results were similar pre-cap as well, although one bottom spending Minnesota Wild made a run for a couple of rounds in the early 2000s.

Is that tangible enough for you?

Or were all of those teams simply not trying to win, and no players/trades were available to them?

Teams that do not spend do not acquire good players and end up sucking. It all there if you look back at what happened to bottom spending teams in the past. The thought that we are somehow different, and that our situation as a bottom spending team is different from every previous bottom spending team, is nonsensical to put it very, very mildly.
 

ReginKarlssonLehner

Let's Win It All
May 3, 2010
40,766
11,063
Dubai Marina
Defense was bad basically why we lost this game.

I actually loved effort of Zib line. Ryan, Hoff and Zib were great yet again.

Karlsson was bad and I addressed it below. Few games where he wasn't a positive impact in the game.

Not bad game. I loved new forechecking and defenders standing up at blueline.

Phillips I addressed below.

Karlsson still pinches at inopportune times, and it does burn him. Room for improvement thats all

Agreed. Karlsson had a terrible game today when picking his spots to pinch

The unfortunate part about Phillips is that the majority of his turn overs are uncontested

Exactly. This is the reason why he shouldn't even be playing bottom pairing minutes.
 

ChocolateLeclaire

Registered User
Jan 12, 2010
12,042
2
Ottawa, Canada
Ok, let's then focus on what we do know.

Since the start of the cap era, there has been only one team who was at the bottom of the league in spending and still made the playoffs.

One.

That team is the 06-07 Penguins, who had Crosby, Malkin, and Fleury looked up on ELC deals that were each under a million. The total cost of those three contracts was $2.83 MM. That Pens team was blown out 4-1 in the first round of the playoffs.

That works out to 1 playoff appearance leading to a total of 1 playoff game won over the past 9 seasons. The results were similar pre-cap as well, although one bottom spending Minnesota Wild made a run for a couple of rounds in the early 2000s.

Is that tangible enough for you?

Or were all of those teams simply not trying to win, and no players/trades were available to them?

Teams that do not spend do not acquire good players and end up sucking. It all there if you look back at what happened to bottom spending teams in the past. The thought that we are somehow different, and that our situation as a bottom spending team is different from every previous bottom spending team, is nonsensical to put it very, very mildly.

Preach my brother...preach!

I laugh at the idea that since we are young, we can't spend. Even if every young player's contract went to RFA status this summer and they were signed to league average deals, the Senators would still be at the bottom of payroll.

For all the talk of prospects and depth, we really don't have much of either if the GM seemingly can't make a trade of one or the other without crippling the team further.

That's were the Ottawa Senators stand. They have players like Zbad, Stone and Hoffman that would be valuable trading chips to other teams for a salaried player of the Ryan caliber, but we can't trade those guys because of the holes in the line-up they would cause.

And that glut of d-men on our roster? We can't trade Karlsson. Methot is now damaged goods whose value drops by the day, and Cowen and Ceci can't be moved as a pair to net a great defensemen because that would create another hole on D. And sadly, Phillips, Gryba and Boro don't return much on the market.

Do we trade Anderson or Lehner? Can't do that now because we have no goalie prospect in the pipeline to immediately replace them. Anderson could use a break but sadly, his back-up is Andrew Hammond til Lehner returns. Trade one of them in a package and Hammond would actually have to play.

That leaves free agency as the best chance to improve the team without damaging the pipeline.

Because of the payroll, we go dumpster diving for reclamation projects. MacArthur panned out, Legwand hasn't.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad